Online trolls are 'everyday sadists'

[PopPop]

.....then by what standards has validity been confirmed?.........

No sarcasm intended truthfully.......just looking for some insight to help me better understand your position and others of a subjective disposition.

 

OK, Back at you here.

 

First of all I think we do ourselves a disservice by trying to pigeon hole ourselves through the use of terms or definitions. We're just more diverse than that and if you believe what I believe, that music listening is in the end nothing more than an aesthetic pursuit, there are no absolute answers about what sounds best. Or even what sounds different. There are a few people on CA that represents extreme views of objectivity and subjectivity but I think most people who read and post here fall somewhere in between. I think I'm one of those.

 

As I said earlier. I don't feel a need to validate every decision I make about the gear or data that I buy. For one thing, the investment risk simply doesn't suggest that it's worth my time. At the pace that I acquire downloads I'm not going to be hurt much if I spend a few extra bucks on high sample rates. I figure that in time it will be clear to me whether 24/192 actually makes sense in my system. I'm simply not going to shackle myself to a DBT for every download I buy.

 

The same goes with cables and components. I don't rely just on my ears. I buy from people I know and trust one of two local sources, both of which are excellent. I never feel that they are taking me down the garden path. I also rely on published reviews, along with the opinions of people who describe their experiences on CA. I also rely on the fact that I can return whatever I buy if I'm not satisfied that it has value for me.

 

So here's an example. I have been dissatisfied with the harsh edge on my digital playback for some time. I started experiencing more listening fatigue when I dumped the toslink connection to my DAC and moved to USB, that happened about the time I bought my Maggies. I loved the increased detail, sound stage, and general presence of the music in the room but much of the music that I recorded myself was overly bright and the timbre of musical instruments in the upper midrange was just too thin. I tried different speaker cables, resistors in the speakers, none of which (over a period of a 30 day listening period) really gave me the fix that I needed.

 

So CA turned me on to a new device being marketed by Bel Canto. A series of SPDIF converters that were an upgrade to my 24/96 link. Of the three choices mLink, uLink and reflink I made a decision that I would experiment with something in the middle of the price range and spent $600 more or less on the uLink. Once installed I was astounded by the improvement in sound of the music coming out of my speakers. I could here more detail in the sound of violins, more warmth and resonance in piano, and a smoother more pleasing presence of sound upon playback of my own files. I asked my wife if she heard anything different and without prompting she described the same things that I had just heard. No need for a DBT as far as I'm concerned. The sum and total of what led up to my decision to by the uLink, coupled with my wife's description of what SHE heard was enough validation for me and I was comfortable calling the vendor and telling him to put the gizmo on my bill.

 

It doesn't always work. There have been times when I really wanted to like a $400 power cord, or a pair of $1000 speaker cables but just sent them back to the store because after living with them for a month I just didn't get the feeling that they added any value to my listening.

 

So then there's the other aspect, snob appeal. Are there any of us who haven't spent money on something just because we can? There may be a reason why I would give my tailor $200 to make me a white shirt when a $15 item from Walmart would hide my naked back just as well. Same goes for watches, shoes, houses, and everything else we buy to define ourselves and our life styles. I don't judge any one for their choices and I don't expect anyone to judge mine.

 

I'm not out there making mindless decisions. I listen and I decide based on what I consider reasonable information and risk. I don't feel threatened by the fact that I might get it "wrong" once in a while. There aren't any universal truths about what constitutes a perfect system or optimum sound.

 

I hope none of you presume you have the need to save me from myself. I think I'm making prudent (if not perfect every time) decisions and am a good steward of the fortune and life that I enjoy.

 

I hope that helps you understand what motivates my methods.

[Jud]

PopPop, very nicely said.

 

One other thought here: When I first went shopping for "high end" audio equipment, one of the things I used to evaluate a manufacturer (a surprising number of whom would answer the phone personally when I called) or dealer was what if anything they said about other dealers, manufacturers, products they didn't carry, etc. Anyone who spent a significant amount of time criticizing others was immediately downgraded in my book. The people I gave the highest marks to were those who presented facts and let me listen for myself, rather than criticizing others or engaging in marketing puffery on behalf of themselves or their products.

 

I think that's how most folks evaluate what we all say here in the comments. Those who spend a lot of time criticizing others or praising themselves are downgraded; those who present facts and let us form our own opinions are the ones who get high marks.

[4est]

+1 As Chris has said: "There is no one killing puppies". IMO this is the wrong venue for evangelistic posting. No one needs to be converted to/of anything. Then again, if they were more emulating of this:

 

"The New Testament urges believers to speak the gospel clearly, fearlessly, graciously, and respectfully whenever an opportunity presents itself (see Colossians 4:2-6, Ephesians 6:19-20, and 1 Peter 3:15)." it might not be so bad.(Excerpted from the Wiki on Evangelism, bold is mine.)

 

Some of what I see on both extremes displays a severe lack of understanding from another perspective. Few people here are unaware of the polarized views often squabbled about as if they are being said for the first time. So much so that when a new poster asks questions about some of these hot points, they are sometimes suspected of being a troll.

I hope none of you presume you have the need to save me from myself. I think I'm making prudent (if not perfect every time) decisions and am a good steward of the fortune and life that I enjoy.

[mayhem13]

OK, Back at you here.

 

First of all I think we do ourselves a disservice by trying to pigeon hole ourselves through the use of terms or definitions. We're just more diverse than that and if you believe what I believe, that music listening is in the end nothing more than an aesthetic pursuit, there are no absolute answers about what sounds best. Or even what sounds different. There are a few people on CA that represents extreme views of objectivity and subjectivity but I think most people who read and post here fall somewhere in between. I think I'm one of those.

 

As I said earlier. I don't feel a need to validate every decision I make about the gear or data that I buy. For one thing, the investment risk simply doesn't suggest that it's worth my time. At the pace that I acquire downloads I'm not going to be hurt much if I spend a few extra bucks on high sample rates. I figure that in time it will be clear to me whether 24/192 actually makes sense in my system. I'm simply not going to shackle myself to a DBT for every download I buy.

 

The same goes with cables and components. I don't rely just on my ears. I buy from people I know and trust one of two local sources, both of which are excellent. I never feel that they are taking me down the garden path. I also rely on published reviews, along with the opinions of people who describe their experiences on CA. I also rely on the fact that I can return whatever I buy if I'm not satisfied that it has value for me.

 

So here's an example. I have been dissatisfied with the harsh edge on my digital playback for some time. I started experiencing more listening fatigue when I dumped the toslink connection to my DAC and moved to USB, that happened about the time I bought my Maggies. I loved the increased detail, sound stage, and general presence of the music in the room but much of the music that I recorded myself was overly bright and the timbre of musical instruments in the upper midrange was just too thin. I tried different speaker cables, resistors in the speakers, none of which (over a period of a 30 day listening period) really gave me the fix that I needed.

 

So CA turned me on to a new device being marketed by Bel Canto. A series of SPDIF converters that were an upgrade to my 24/96 link. Of the three choices mLink, uLink and reflink I made a decision that I would experiment with something in the middle of the price range and spent $600 more or less on the uLink. Once installed I was astounded by the improvement in sound of the music coming out of my speakers. I could here more detail in the sound of violins, more warmth and resonance in piano, and a smoother more pleasing presence of sound upon playback of my own files. I asked my wife if she heard anything different and without prompting she described the same things that I had just heard. No need for a DBT as far as I'm concerned. The sum and total of what led up to my decision to by the uLink, coupled with my wife's description of what SHE heard was enough validation for me and I was comfortable calling the vendor and telling him to put the gizmo on my bill.

 

It doesn't always work. There have been times when I really wanted to like a $400 power cord, or a pair of $1000 speaker cables but just sent them back to the store because after living with them for a month I just didn't get the feeling that they added any value to my listening.

 

So then there's the other aspect, snob appeal. Are there any of us who haven't spent money on something just because we can? There may be a reason why I would give my tailor $200 to make me a white shirt when a $15 item from Walmart would hide my naked back just as well. Same goes for watches, shoes, houses, and everything else we buy to define ourselves and our life styles. I don't judge any one for their choices and I don't expect anyone to judge mine.

 

I'm not out there making mindless decisions. I listen and I decide based on what I consider reasonable information and risk. I don't feel threatened by the fact that I might get it "wrong" once in a while. There aren't any universal truths about what constitutes a perfect system or optimum sound.

 

I hope none of you presume you have the need to save me from myself. I think I'm making prudent (if not perfect every time) decisions and am a good steward of the fortune and life that I enjoy.

 

I hope that helps you understand what motivates my methods.

 

Understood.

 

.......it was you who used the term 'validate', not me. lol........just making you aware if you aren't already. It's when people 'validate' something through subjectivity that the waters get a bit polluted for my taste.

[PopPop]

Understood.

 

.......it was you who used the term 'validate', not me. lol........just making you aware if you aren't already. It's when people 'validate' something through subjectivity that the waters get a bit polluted for my taste.

 

I think I made it pretty clear in my post what I am aware of. I was carrying the word validate forward from earlier posts by others. And as I have said before my decision to buy XYZ on my terms might be the same decision someone else would make based on their own terms. We all apply varying degrees of rigor. I just don't feel a need to defend my choices. That's why I took the time to respond to you. It's clear to me (but not a huge concern) that I swim in water that's a bit muddier than you do. It's in my nature to OK with that.

[Paul R]

+1 - well said.

-Paul

 

OK, Back at you here.

 

First of all I think we do ourselves a disservice by trying to pigeon hole ourselves through the use of terms or definitions.

...

[mayhem13]

I think I made it pretty clear in my post what I am aware of. I was carrying the word validate forward from earlier posts by others. And as I have said before my decision to buy XYZ on my terms might be the same decision someone else would make based on their own terms. We all apply varying degrees of rigor. I just don't feel a need to defend my choices. That's why I took the time to respond to you. It's clear to me (but not a huge concern) that I swim in water that's a bit muddier than you do. It's in my nature to OK with that.

 

Aaaaaah.....i see. No defense asked for. Share your experiences with whom and whenever you like......as long as i am free to do the same. Agreed?

[mayhem13]

+1 - well said.

-Paul

 

Why is that well said???....he chose the term?....or is your reply simply for arguements sake?

 

Not sure you're following the suggested mantra you suggest for others Paul.

[Paul R]

Why would you say that? Complimenting someone for saying something well hardly fits into any derogatory category, do you think?

 

Your opinion may vary of course.

 

Still, I am afraid I do not quite understand your point.

 

-Paul

 

Why is that well said???....he chose the term?....or is your reply simply for arguements sake?

 

Not sure you're following the suggested mantra you suggest for others Paul.

[PopPop]

Aaaaaah.....i see. No defense asked for. Share your experiences with whom and whenever you like......as long as i am free to do the same. Agreed?

 

I absolutely agree. In a perfect world I would test the sh**t out of everything I buy, by what ever means I felt would give me the best results. I'm just saying that it isn't always convenient or necessary and I'm comfortable with the subjective choices I've made over the years. Even if I probably f***ed it up from time to time. No body died. If I can learn more about objective measures I will gladly adopt them when it makes sense to me but for now I'm OK with what I've built by my own crazy methods, which I don't think I proselytize.

[Bill M]

Hi all,

 

I am new to this forum and to this thread but the title really resonated with me.

 

I recently cancelled my account at another hifi forum owing to this troll behaviour. Funnily enough I had hypothesised about the link between this behaviour and personality disorder without seeing this research, so thought it quite amusing.

 

cheers