ATTENTION Current Mac mini/A+ users: Boot Mavericks from an SD card, load a RAMdisk, dismount your internal SATA drives, and pour a drink for the musicians walking out of your speakers!

[hytechrednek]

Dear Charles,

Thanks, Charles. You made me curious. So I bought a Transcend 32 gb class 10 with polished contacts, copied my Mavericks image from the Sandisk card, that I mentioned above and listened. I am pretty sure, and here I am with you, Charles, that the Transcend card - in my chain - sounds more detailed. So for the moment, I´ll stick to this one leaving open the question if it could be topped by a slow card with polished contacts and with less power consumption as Alex mentioned.

Thanks once again for your observation, Charles.

Regards,

Uwe

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the morning Amazon delivered the Sony SDHC card class 4 32 gb. Having copied my Mavericks music OS I could start with the second part of the "SD card test" - now with polished contacts and little power consumption -. Whereas in the first part of the test coming to a result was a matter of seconds, it took me about two hours this time to make up my mind.

1. (Thanks to Alex, without whom I would not even have thought of the amount of power consumption to be of an influential parameter.) Music now has become more transparent.

1.1 High frequencies are more detailed, low ones (acoustic bass) are tighter than before.

2. The soundstage is easier to imagine, the room where the recording took place, easier to grasp.

 

When I said it took me some time to come to these conclusions it should mean, that the improvement to be heard in the first part is bigger than in the second.

To cut a long story short: I will stick to the Sony card now which even has the advantage of being cheaper.

 

Best wishes,

Uwe

 

Uwe,

Let me make sure I understand. You feel the Sony Class 4 card with polished contacts and drawing less power, sounds only slightly better than the Transcend Class 10 card with polished contacts and drawing more power? However cards with polished contacts are clearly superior sounding to those with a matte finish?

 

If I have not misstated your conclusion, it is a rare occurrence when cheaper and slower turns out to be better.

 

BTW, how did you know the Transcend card had polished contacts?

Charles

[alsterfan]

Uwe,

You feel the Sony Class 4 card with polished contacts and drawing less power, sounds only slightly better than the Transcend Class 10 card with polished contacts and drawing more power? However cards with polished contacts are clearly superior sounding to those with a matte finish?

...it is a rare occurrence when cheaper and slower turns out to be better.

BTW, how did you know the Transcend card had polished contacts?

Charles

 

Hi Charles,

1. Yes, you got me right. As I only had the chance to compare a Transcend (class 10) and a Sandisk (class 10) my findings of course refer to those 2 cards (brands?) alone.

2. It was not difficult, to see the difference between the bright, polished contacts (Transcend from Taiwan) and the dull, matte ones of Sandisk from China.

3. As far as I know it can be of importance for the improvement of sound in computer audio to underclock the processor´s speed in order to reduce power consumption. That it my assumption anyway to "explain", why the slow Sony card ist slightly superior to the Transcend card.

4. Yes to me it seems to be our luck, that the cheap (old) card is more suitable for our hobby. Photographers will surely have a different look at this.

 

Kind regards,

Uwe

[hytechrednek]

Thanks Charles. But Snow Leopard?! Oh man are you in for a BIG treat if you do a clean install of Mavericks (first to a HD; then optimize a little, then clone to an SD). IMO, SQ of Mavericks is MUCH better than SL or Mountain Lion. If you are hearing benefits from SD and RAM disk then you are sure to appreciate Mavericks.

--Alex C.

 

Superdad,

I got Mavericks loaded tonight on my hard drive and installed it via Carbon Copy Cloner to the Sony SD Card. The OS would not behave properly and I was not able to get a fair evaluation on the first outing. I am running the Mac Mini Headless via an iMac Desktop that is running Snow Leopard. It appeared to have a communications problem. I reinstalled Mavericks directly to the SD Card and the communication issues went away.

 

The SQ does seem to be better with Mavericks. Thanks for pointing it out. I have another SD Card to boot from with Snow Leopard installed and by comparison SL has a more coarse / tense SQ.

 

So my preferred setup right now is:

 

1. Boot Mavericks from the Sony Class 4 SD Card.

2. Create a Ram Disk with a Program called RamDiskCreator.

3. Move any Player Apps or Music Files from the HDD to the Ram Disk for Playback.

4. Eject the HDD.

5. Launch Apps and load Files from the Ram Disk.

 

I re-mount the internal HDD using a little Utility called "Mountain" by Appgineers, when I need to fetch more music files from it. It's more convenient than Disk Utility.

 

If I am missing something else that could help further, please let me know. I know you mentioned a program called Grand Perspective. How does that work and what can it do for me?

Thanks Again,

Charles

 

PS: Have you tried the Sony Card yet with the brightly polished contacts? The Sandisk card I had with the matte finish is awful sounding by comparison. I tried it again just as a sanity check. It has been pressed back into service in the camcorder. Guess I could try and polish the contacts as an experiment.

[alsterfan]

2. Create a Ram Disk with a Program called RamDiskCreator.

 

Hi Charles,

Just in case you don´t use it: Florian Bogner wrote me a tiny script some time ago

(Create a RAM Disk Using AppleScript » bogner.sh)

by which a RAM Disk is created when the OS is booted. In my case 2 RAM Disks are created, a small one for copying the player to, a big one for music files. With AppleScript Editor you can change what Florian wrote to fit your needs.

Do you happen to know PathFinder? As a dual-pane finder it gives me more ease of use when working with different external HDDs.

Apart from that and with the exception of "Mountain" your setup is exactly what mine is.

Regards, Uwe

[Jud]

Uwe and hytek, I'll post a little later a variant of the Bogner script that also copies A+ to the RAMdisk for the player, so all you have to do is copy music to the other RAMdisk, start up A+ and go.

[Jud]

[b]set[/b] MusicSizeInMB [b]to[/b] 1536 [b]set[/b] AppSizeInMB [b]to[/b] 512


[b]set[/b] NumSectors [b]to[/b] ((2 * 1024 * MusicSizeInMB))
[b]set[/b] DeviceName [b]to[/b] [b]do shell script[/b] "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
[b]do shell script[/b] "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskMusic " & DeviceName


[b]set[/b] NumSectors [b]to[/b] ((2 * 1024 * AppSizeInMB))
[b]set[/b] DeviceName [b]to[/b] [b]do shell script[/b] "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
[b]do shell script[/b] "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskApp " & DeviceName


[b]tell[/b] [i]application[/i] "Finder"
    [b]duplicate[/b] [i]file[/i] "Macintosh HD:Applications:Audirvana Plus1512" to "RAMDiskApp:"
[b]end[/b] [b]tell

[/b]​[/Code]
 
I rename Audirvana Plus applications in order to conveniently change among various versions, removing the punctuation from the version number.  You can change the name to that of your particular A+ app, change the sizes or names of the RAMdisks if you like, etc.
 
Edit: I'd be remiss if I didn't thank member souptin for the original of this.  Haven't seen him 'round lately (know he had health problems), and I greatly miss his helpfulness and sense of humor.
 
Edit again: Sheesh, sorry, forgot to mention you want to make the script executable and set it to run on startup.

[hytechrednek]

Uwe and hytek, I'll post a little later a variant of the Bogner script that also copies A+ to the RAMdisk for the player, so all you have to do is copy music to the other RAMdisk, start up A+ and go.

 

That would really be nice and greatly appreciated.

[hytechrednek]

[b]set[/b] MusicSizeInMB [b]to[/b] 1536 [b]set[/b] AppSizeInMB [b]to[/b] 512


[b]set[/b] NumSectors [b]to[/b] ((2 * 1024 * MusicSizeInMB))
[b]set[/b] DeviceName [b]to[/b] [b]do shell script[/b] "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
[b]do shell script[/b] "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskMusic " & DeviceName


[b]set[/b] NumSectors [b]to[/b] ((2 * 1024 * AppSizeInMB))
[b]set[/b] DeviceName [b]to[/b] [b]do shell script[/b] "hdid -nomount ram://" & NumSectors
[b]do shell script[/b] "diskutil eraseVolume HFS+ RAMDiskApp " & DeviceName


[b]tell[/b] [i]application[/i] "Finder"
    [b]duplicate[/b] [i]file[/i] "Macintosh HD:Applications:Audirvana Plus1512" to "RAMDiskApp:"
[b]end[/b] [b]tell

[/b]​[/Code]
 
I rename Audirvana Plus applications in order to conveniently change among various versions, removing the punctuation from the version number.  You can change the name to that of your particular A+ app, change the sizes or names of the RAMdisks if you like, etc.
 
Edit: I'd be remiss if I didn't thank member souptin for the original of this.  Haven't seen him 'round lately (know he had health problems), and I greatly miss his helpfulness and sense of humor.
 
Edit again: Sheesh, sorry, forgot to mention you want to make the script executable and set it to run on startup.
 
So I just copy and paste the above into Apple Script Editor and save it?

[Jud]

So I just copy and paste the above into Apple Script Editor and save it?

 

- Copy and paste into Apple Script Editor

 

- Save as Application to your Applications folder

 

- Go to System Preferences > Users & Groups

 

- On the top right-hand side of the preferences dialog click Login Items

 

- Add the app-ified script to your login items; you'll probably want to check the box to hide it

[sandyk]

3. As far as I know it can be of importance for the improvement of sound in computer audio to underclock the processor´s speed in order to reduce power consumption.

 

There is another school of thought that believes that the faster the processor, the less damaging the much higher frequency artifacts/ wideband noise is.

[hytechrednek]

There is another school of thought that believes that the faster the processor, the less damaging the much higher frequency artifacts/ wideband noise is.

 

I think the guy named Ryan Mintz at Core Audio, subscribes to that opinion based upon a whitepaper he has posted on his website.

[hytechrednek]

I have been using the card slot in my 2010 Mac Mini but also used a small USB card reader for doing the same thing on a 2009 Mac Mini. I purchased another card reader that looked just like the one I borrowed from my daughter, but the new card reader refuses to boot the cards. Is there a current model card reader that someone can recommend for this application?

[alsterfan]

There is another school of thought that believes that the faster the processor, the less damaging the much higher frequency artifacts/ wideband noise is.

 

Computer audio seems to be a very complex thing. So it is no surprise for me that for different questions different schools of thought exist. Both may have logics on their side, which is why in the end - though being interested in theory - I rely on my ears. If I had not been unsuccessful so far to find a SD card class 2 with polished contacts I would have done a comparison with the above mentioned Sony card.

Regards,

Uwe

[alsterfan]

a variant of the Bogner script that also copies A+ to the RAMdisk for the player

 

Hi Jud,

Thanks for this script. It is one step less now before being able to listen to my music.

Regards, Uwe

[AnotherSpin]

Does anybody tried to polish matte contacts and hear a difference?

[hytechrednek]

Does anybody tried to polish matte contacts and hear a difference?

 

Not so far as I know. It is only supposition that it makes a difference. Only two of us have made that comparison so far and posted here. It would be very interesting to get a Dremel Tool and buff the one I have with matte contacts to a shiny luster.

[Superdad]

I finally had a chance to compare the 16GB Sony Class 4 SD under discussion (which arrived last week) to my 32GB Transcend. At my desktop machine I restored the latter's B/U clone to the Sony, listened to the Transcend on the music mini, then rebooted onto the Sony. Did all the usual tweaks: RAM disk, Quit Finder, internal drive dismounted (funny, this is a new machine bought a month ago and the Mavericks on the HD has never even gone past the new machine welcome installation screen--its always been booted from the SD).

 

I was anxious to compare the cards, but for the very first time since going the SD boot route, I experienced what some others have: The dreadful slowness in doing anything, even to point where I had to Force-Quit some utilities just to move on. Everything works, but excruciatingly slowly. Very weird since the Sony boot was made from a Carbon Copy Clone freshly made last week from my Transcend. I pulled it and ran every stinkin' utility I have on it (Disk Warrior, MLCC, etc.). But boot time is still twice as long as with my Transcend, and just pulling down the File menu or opening System Prefs is agony.

 

Anyway, it does play Audirvana fine, but I really did not hear any difference. Admittedly it was longer between playback than just a quick reboot. So I'm going to try to get to the bottom of this whole thing with the speed/usability thing, first by repacking up and cloning in some different ways (SuperDuper, CCC, and Disk Utility--and to different disk image types). If I do, then I can try the SQ comparison again. But more importantly, perhaps I can figure out why some people have SD card boot responsiveness problems. It the old saying about not being able to fix a problem you can't replicate. Well I seem to be able to now!

 

If anyone (Bill Scott?) has some insights into disk image backup/restore issues, then please share them. Might point me in some direction of things to experiment with. I really can't believe that the problem I am experiencing is due to a Class 4 card versus Class 10. Otherwise one of you would have already complained.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

[hytechrednek]

for the very first time since going the SD boot route, I experienced what some others have: The dreadful slowness in doing anything, even to point where I had to Force-Quit some utilities just to move on. Everything works, but excruciatingly slowly.

 

Best,

 

--Alex C.

Superdad,

I would not call my Sony cards speedy but fairly responsive. They are not agonizingly slow as you experienced. I did see slow performance from them once, similar to what you describe. I made up an SD card using CCC. It was a copy of one card to another card. The Clone was terribly slow. I could not figure out why because I had used CCC before without a problem, but thinking back now, the cards that worked well had been cloned from a HDD to an SD card.

 

I never thought about I had cloned a card to a card, until you mentioned it now. At the time I figured I must have done something wrong in the clone process. I fixed it by rebooting to the HDD, formatting the card with Disk Utility and then installing Mavericks directly to the SD card. This was the first time I tried a direct install to the SD card. It seemed to work fine. In fact, I thought the direct install might have sounded a bit better than cloning from the HDD to an SD Card, when I compared one to the other. I was reluctant to mention it here for fear of giving evidence to the Grand Inquisitor that would convict me of heresy. Dare I mention one more observation; even Snow Leopard sounded a bit less rough with a direct install to the card. I know I have sealed my fate and piled on fuel for the inquisition.

[alcarp]

Superdad,

I would not call my Sony cards speedy but fairly responsive. They are not agonizingly slow as you experienced. I did see slow performance from them once, similar to what you describe. I made up an SD card using CCC. It was a copy of one card to another card. The Clone was terribly slow. I could not figure out why because I had used CCC before without a problem, but thinking back now, the cards that worked well had been cloned from a HDD to an SD card.

 

I never thought about I had cloned a card to a card, until you mentioned it now. At the time I figured I must have done something wrong in the clone process. I fixed it by rebooting to the HDD, formatting the card with Disk Utility and then installing Mavericks directly to the SD card. This was the first time I tried a direct install to the SD card. It seemed to work fine. In fact, I thought the direct install might have sounded a bit better than cloning from the HDD to an SD Card, when I compared one to the other. I was reluctant to mention it here for fear of giving evidence to the Grand Inquisitor that would convict me of heresy. Dare I mention one more observation; even Snow Leopard sounded a bit less rough with a direct install to the card. I know I have sealed my fate and piled on fuel for the inquisition.

 

I have done a fresh install of Mavericks from the HDD to a Sony 32GB SD card and its painfully slow.

[sandyk]

In fact, I thought the direct install might have sounded a bit better than cloning from the HDD to an SD Card, when I compared one to the other. I was reluctant to mention it here for fear of giving evidence to the Grand Inquisitor that would convict me of heresy. Dare I mention one more observation; even Snow Leopard sounded a bit less rough with a direct install to the card. I know I have sealed my fate and piled on fuel for the inquisition.

I guess then that it may not be such a huge leap of faith for you to believe that it may be possible that,( e.g.) a .wav file saved directly to a storage medium, may sound better than the same .wav file saved to a different storage medium , then copied to the new destination, especially if the new destination where the .wav file was saved to directly, is electrically quieter ?

Alex

[hytechrednek]

I have done a fresh install of Mavericks from the HDD to a Sony 32GB SD card and its painfully slow.

 

I have 4 cards in all. Three are Sony 16GB Class 4 and one is a Sandisk 16GB Class 4. The Sandisk is painfully slow in performance and sounds bad by comparison to the Sony cards. I once had a Sony card perform slowly and I assumed something had gone wrong in the cloning process. I reformatted and performed a direct install of the OS and the problem went away. I have done the same with the Sandisk, and the performance is abysmal no matter what I try.

[hytechrednek]

I guess then that it may not be such a huge leap of faith for you to believe that it may be possible that,( e.g.) a .wav file saved directly to a storage medium, may sound better than the same .wav file saved to a different storage medium , then copied to the new destination, especially if the new destination where the .wav file was saved to directly, is electrically quieter ?

Alex

More like a leap into the fire because some people I've worked with consider it heresy and say none of this makes any difference, especially outside controlled laboratory conditions and measurements. No way are humans going to perceive any of this in a home HiFi. You could find yourself ostracized where I used to work for mentioning such ideas and your opinions dismissed on other matters as a result. A modern day shunning or inquisition. At the risk of peril, Yes, I've already entertained what you propose and it does seem to make a difference. What's that I smell?

[AnotherSpin]

I was going to check some outlets which may store outdated sd cards and buy Sony to compare with SanDisk 80MB/s, but before I move - does anybody else confirm hytechrednek findings/hypothesis?

[alsterfan]

 

So I'm going to try to get to the bottom of this whole thing with the speed/usability thing, first by repacking up and cloning in some different ways (SuperDuper, CCC, and Disk Utility--and to different disk image types).

 

If anyone (Bill Scott?) has some insights into disk image backup/restore issues, then please share them.

 

--Alex C.

 

No, I don´t have insights into this matter, but I can confirm, that the SD cards I have used so far always have been slower at booting when using CCC to copy the OS. Making a clean install solved this problem. However, I cannot confirm that a clean install sounded better than a CCC clone and vice versa.

 

Regards,

Uwe

[hytechrednek]

I purchased a Sony 40 MB/s card and compared it to the Sony Class 4 card I have (15MB/s). My initial impression is that the faster card is more responsive in use but the sound is better also. Both Sony Cards have polished contacts. Previous to this I had only compared a Sony Class 4 with a Sandisk Class 4 which had matte finish contacts.