Ethernet Cables, Audiostream test...

[Paul R]

(grin) Each pulse is an electrical signal on the wire, 10 million bits per second is also a frequency of 10Mhz, and so on. It's saying the same thing, just from a slightly different viewpoint. It also helps if you know that Ethernet cables were originally Coaxial cables. Twisted Pair is really an elegant way to replace coax.

 

You can think of the signal on those ethernet cables as being a radio signal on a cable in many ways.

 

-Paul

 

Hi Paul: Not MHz. It's 10, 100, 1000 megabits/second. Using multiple pairs. Quite different I think.

[Superdad]

(grin) Each pulse is an electrical signal on the wire, 10 million bits per second is also a frequency of 10Mhz, and so on. It's saying the same thing, just from a slightly different viewpoint. It also helps if you know that Ethernet cables were originally Coaxial cables. Twisted Pair is really an elegant way to replace coax.

 

You can think of the signal on those ethernet cables as being a radio signal on a cable in many ways.

 

-Paul

 

I know Paul, but the Cat5 spec--supporting 100baseT or even 1000baseT with 5e--only requires bandwidth to 100MHz. There are four pairs of wire in there. That's about all I know.

 

BTW, I did live through the coax days. I met Robert Metcalfe (founder of 3Com) in 1981 when I was product acquisitions director for a big computer h/w-s/w wholesale distributor. He was introducing 10Base2 "thinnet" to us as the first reasonable office LAN cabling scheme to replace the 10mm "thicknet" coax that IT departments ran at the time. I probably still have a box of termination resistor BNCs around here somewhere…

 

Cheers,

ALEX

[Paul R]

Hi Alex - I used the terminology loosely to be better understood.

 

Strictly speaking, a 1000Base-T connection uses four pairs in a full duplex configuration, with each pair transmitting 250MBaud in *each direction* simultaneously.

 

That a symbol rate of 1000MBaud each way.

 

You were right in saying that the signal on the cable is not transmitting at 1000Mhz, there are 8 simultaneous transmissions of 250Mhz each. And 100BaseT uses two pairs of wire at 50 MBaud each.

 

Effectively speaking, you have a radio source there, with a aggregate TX symbol rate of 1000 MBaud (bandwidth) an an aggregate RX symbol rate of 1000 MBaud.

 

I was wondering if there is some kind of induction issue that might result, but I do not know that.

 

-Paul

 

 

I know Paul, but the Cat5 spec--supporting 100baseT or even 1000baseT with 5e--only requires bandwidth to 100MHz. There are four pairs of wire in there. That's about all I know.

 

BTW, I did live through the coax days. I met Robert Metcalfe (founder of 3Com) in 1981 when I was product acquisitions director for a big computer h/w-s/w wholesale distributor. He was introducing 10Base2 "thinnet" to us as the first reasonable office LAN cabling scheme to replace the 10mm "thicknet" coax that IT departments ran at the time. I probably still have a box of termination resistor BNCs around here somewhere…

 

Cheers,

ALEX

[reverendo]

Hi André: I wish I knew how to answer your questions. I think it just takes experimenting. I am also not clear on how you are connecting your SBT and Cantata. Are you going wireless to the SBT? And then via USB to the Cantata? Or do you have the Cantata with an Ethernet cable to your Netgear switch?

That's exactly how I'm doing it: I have the SBT wired to the netgear switch and am using the SBT with EDO to use the USB async output to the Cantata.

 

Also, I forgot to mention that one of the biggest differences I heard when experimenting with all this Ethernet stuff was the reduction in edge and fatigue when I completely unplugged the old D-Link w-fi router that I had sitting on top of my Cisco switch (which is in my studio/office, on the floor next to my desk). I still have wi-fi in the other parts of the house, but unplugging that unit made a big difference. That might have been before I went with the direct Mac-to-Mac connection bypassing the Cisco switch, so I would have to put the D-Link back in to be able to guess if it was poisoning via air or cable to the switch.

I'd appreciate if you could just do a quick check as to which of both was making a difference. In my case I'm using the router in the office, but the wireless switch is smack in between my Cantata and my Diablo. Could wireless have an impact on my system? Pulling a cable sounds so complicated, especially because I rent the house, which makes anything always kind of a hassle.

Best regards

[Quest]

While I now view network architecture as one of my fundamental blocks in building a system, I do think this is probably one of the last things you have to deal with in a system. (i.e. its probably not much difference in most people's systems).

 

Just to share my own experiences and current thoughts on LAN cables and abit on related things:

 

1. LAN cables matter, even when you are NOT streaming. I found that all LAN cables connected to the router matter, even if your PC/server is just connected via wifi.

 

For those of you who have the ears for it, just connecting a LAN cable to the PC itself (without being connected to anything at the other end) will already yield differences between different cables. I assume due to shielding/grounding aspects. Funnily, while the assumption is this would sound worse (cos the cable acts abit as an antenna like that?), in most systems I feel it sounds better.

 

2. Even when a LAN cable sounds good for one application (e.g. from router to PC), it does not mean the same cable sounds good used elsewhere (e.g. from router to modem for instance).

 

3. Expensive does not mean better. I've tried some of those 'audiophile LAN' cables, but prefer some off-the-shelf ones. I even custom made some, but still returned to off-the-shelf ones.

 

My view is that now, you can either wait for a $500 well measured audiophile LAN cable to materialise (if we even know what to measure), or just buy several $5-30 LAN cables to test.

 

If after buying one cable, you hear no difference, you would have just lost $30 at most.. and which you probably can use elsewhere since everything now (including my bluray player) has internet/network capability..

 

4. If you use wifi at all in your home, the location of the router, its vibration isolation, power cord/isolation, polarity (many people just anyhow insert the round pin), the way the antenna points, is very important and affects the soundstage and liveliness quite significantly. This affects all playback in the room, not just PC.

 

Wifi can sound better than direct LAN connection to router/switch, if care is taken.

[Paul R]

Hey Guys-

 

Just for fun I tried switching around some Cat6 UTP ethernet cables around yesterday, but, I was unable to hear a difference. I am not saying that you guys are not hearing a difference, it may be that I just do not know what to listen for.

 

Can you guys be more specific in what you are hearing please? I mean, something like "21 seconds into Track 2 of this CD ripped to AIFF and played back with this player the difference between violins and violas is much more apparent" type of thing? I would like to try and hear what you are hearing.

 

Paul

[Quest]

The difference varies depending on what cable is used, and what it replaces.. it's kind of like asking what we are hearing with usb cables or interconnects or software even..

 

Putting aside the different cable thing - if you can't hear the difference of the same cable used in one direction vs another.. I guess LAN cables are the last thing you should look at, at this point.

[Paul R]

Looking back at my notes, I can pretty well tell what the differences i beleive I heard were with each USB cable I have tested. Even more so with speaker cables.

 

It may be that my network or power or whatever is just precluding there being a difference here, or it may be that I just do not know what to listen for. I was thinking of using a MBP and the little Proton to test this with a set of headphones. Do you think that would show up a difference?

 

By the way, are you saying that ethernet cables are also directional? Or is that some kind of reference to the quality of the system needed to hear the differences you are speaking of?

 

Paul

 

The difference varies depending on what cable is used, and what it replaces.. it's kind of like asking what we are hearing with usb cables or interconnects or software even..

 

Putting aside the different cable thing - if you can't hear the difference of the same cable used in one direction vs another.. I guess LAN cables are the last thing you should look at, at this point.

[Superdad]

Hi Paul: As reflected in my own testing and reports, I found that the differences between Ethernet cables were swampped by the edge and grit of the Ethernet switch. In other words, I was able to hear the differences between cables only when I went direct, Mac-to-Mac. Perhaps now that I am attuned to the character change they make I might still be able to discern a cable difference (certainly with the best one) if I went back through the switch. But I would not want to. The switch sounds bad!

[ErikM]

I recently got one of the Blue Jeans Cat6a cables it does say Belden GX10 on it but it isn't a shielded cable. Belden does make the GX10 cable in a shielded version but that's not the one Blue Jeans sells.

 

I was playing around yesterday with this device I bought a while back, it's called an Elfex Polarity tester http://www.russandrews.com/product-Elfix-Polarity-Tester-1870.htm basically you move it near an electrical source or a cable or component and it tells you via a buzzing noise and a LED if that device is live ( electrically) and the closer you get the louder it will buzz or how bright the LED shines. I was using a true cat6a shielded cable to feed my Sonore Sonic orbiter I can put the Elfex right on the Shielded cable not a peep, I hooked up the BJC cat6a and it buzzes and flashes.. I also checked some other items in my main system.. The Sonore is super quiet very little, to no noise off that.. I had a Sono's unit in my main system and that threw a bunch of noise, probably the WiFi ( removed it since it was duplicating what my new Orbiter does anyway).. I also found my Shunyata power cords are very quiet, as is the JPS Labs cable I have but the Audioquest NRG 1.5 I was using on the Sonos was very loud..

 

So I think this little device picks up not just AC noise, but also WiFi and RFI/EMI.. it buzzes like crap near my Router. and even my iPhone..

[Superdad]

I recently got one of the Blue Jeans Cat6a cables it does say Belden GX10 on it but it isn't a shielded cable. Belden does make the GX10 cable in a shielded version but that's not the one Blue Jeans sells.

 

I was playing around yesterday with this device I bought a while back, it's called an Elfex Polarity tester Elfix Polarity Tester : Equipment powered by the mains generates... basically you move it near an electrical source or a cable or component and it tells you via a buzzing noise and a LED if that device is live ( electrically) and the closer you get the louder it will buzz or how bright the LED shines. I was using a true cat6a shielded cable to feed my Sonore Sonic orbiter I can put the Elfex right on the Shielded cable not a peep, I hooked up the BJC cat6a and it buzzes and flashes.. I also checked some other items in my main system.. The Sonore is super quiet very little, to no noise off that.. I had a Sono's unit in my main system and that threw a bunch of noise, probably the WiFi ( removed it since it was duplicating what my new Orbiter does anyway).. I also found my Shunyata power cords are very quiet, as is the JPS Labs cable I have but the Audioquest NRG 1.5 I was using on the Sonos was very loud..

 

So I think this little device picks up not just AC noise, but also WiFi and RFI/EMI.. it buzzes like crap near my Router. and even my iPhone..

 

The BlueJeans Cat6a is shielded (they confirmed this on the phone), but it is a floating shield. That is, the shield is not tied at either end. So while this preserves the galvanic isolation between the computers (or between the computer and ethernet switch if using one), it is true that it does not drain the captured EM field to ground.

 

I may have mentioned that I did identify a Belden-sold Cat6a patch cable with tied shield (metal around the RJ45s). It is just slightly more expensive than the 25-ft BlueJeans, but I may try it and put some Kapton tape around one end. That way, the filed will still shunt to ground, but the computers won't get grounded together. I really do think highly of Belden's "bonded-pair" and "H" arrangement. I just wish their catalogs and part numbers were less confusing and that they had more retail avenues for purchase.

[ErikM]

Agreed.. the Belden documents on their site are confusing.. and please if you can find a site for the STP versions of the GX10 in patch cord lengths please let me/us know, all I can find is 1000ft rolls I don't really need that much! Also FYI the shielded cat6a cable that I have uses the metal RJ45 plugs I'm guessing that's needed to properly terminate the shield?

[reverendo]

Bjc cable arrived, but am travelling. Will only be able to report second week of January.

You guys are making me want to check wifi switch vs. without. The problem is that I'd have to buy a very long Ethernet cable just for this test.

Is anyone using a Synology or Drobo close to the system?

[Quest]

Looking back at my notes, I can pretty well tell what the differences i beleive I heard were with each USB cable I have tested. Even more so with speaker cables.

 

It may be that my network or power or whatever is just precluding there being a difference here, or it may be that I just do not know what to listen for. I was thinking of using a MBP and the little Proton to test this with a set of headphones. Do you think that would show up a difference?

 

By the way, are you saying that ethernet cables are also directional? Or is that some kind of reference to the quality of the system needed to hear the differences you are speaking of?

 

Paul

 

Well, in my setup, ethernet cables are directional in a sense that they do have a slightly different sound in each way. Similar to how other cables are directional too. It won't change the characteristic by a huge amount, but still have an effect especially on the liveliness.

 

But yes, was just using it as an example of a simple change you can test, to see if your system can reveal the differences or not.

 

The differences I can hear, is similar to changing a usb cable. As you know, how much difference a usb cable makes, is very dependent on the system as well.. I do think everything is important, but the importance also varies at which level is the system at..

 

Reading Superdad's comment about his switch, I do need to comment that my network equipment such as router and modem, have power and isolation treatment equivalent to what I'd do with any other audio gear (its own dedicated line, power filter/cord/distributor and isolation platform). I do recall hearing differences otherwise though (I also tested various configurations including PC to PC), but maybe these added differences in system configuration made the changes bigger in my system now.

 

I also bought a number of routers to test which sounds better. They do sound different. I would imagine the number of variables amongst our setups must be huge.

[reverendo]

Quest,

I think that good aftermarket PSUs will always make sense. The problem is spending too much on them. My Welborne Labs PSU is too much money for these equipments. May I ask where you get your aftermarket PSUs from and how much you pay on them?

[Paul R]

Well, in my setup, ethernet cables are directional in a sense that they do have a slightly different sound in each way. Similar to how other cables are directional too. It won't change the characteristic by a huge amount, but still have an effect especially on the liveliness.

 

But yes, was just using it as an example of a simple change you can test, to see if your system can reveal the differences or not.

 

I am not sure that I agree that is a valid test of how sensitive, revealing, or resolving a system is, but I can see your logic.

 

The differences I can hear, is similar to changing a usb cable. As you know, how much difference a usb cable makes, is very dependent on the system as well.. I do think everything is important, but the importance also varies at which level is the system at..[/Quote]

 

Perhaps. However, you must also consider that cable changes like that may also be revealing a flaw in a system that becomes more or less prominent. Removing the flaw may also remove any changes heard by changing cables around. By flaw here, I mean something - anything - else imparting a non-neutral sound to the playback chain. Even sound judged favorable, as in a tube amp vs a solid state amp. Flaws in higher end system are usually more apparent though, I will certainly agree with you on that.

 

Reading Superdad's comment about his switch, I do need to comment that my network equipment such as router and modem, have power and isolation treatment equivalent to what I'd do with any other audio gear (its own dedicated line, power filter/cord/distributor and isolation platform). I do recall hearing differences otherwise though (I also tested various configurations including PC to PC), but maybe these added differences in system configuration made the changes bigger in my system now.

 

I also bought a number of routers to test which sounds better. They do sound different. I would imagine the number of variables amongst our setups must be huge.[/Quote]

 

Huge would be an understatement. Indeed, I have come up with close to 100 scenarios to test in this subject area, and am beginning to think I will just have to pass on it and let someone else do the work. I do plan to do some limited experiments with a MBP and also with a CAPS PC, if I can fit a SAN adapter into the beastie. A SAN adapter can be used without any networking at all of course, and with no spinning or electronic disks in the machine. All that comes across as little pulses of light.

 

-Paul

[Daudio]

a big computer h/w-s/w wholesale distributor.

 

Who was that, Alex ?

[Daudio]

I was playing around yesterday with this device I bought a while back, it's called an Elfex Polarity tester...

So I think this little device picks up not just AC noise, but also WiFi and RFI/EMI.. it buzzes like crap near my Router. and even my iPhone..

 

That sounds like fun, and useful ! Reading about you exploring with it made me think of RFI/EMI problem as sources, sinks, and routes. A bit like vibration control. Grounds are sinks but tricky to play around with. But the ability to visualize the EMI 'fields and flows' would be a big step forward. Kind of like how I can visualize electrostatic fields better now after reading a nice basic book on the subject.

[Superdad]

Who was that, Alex ?

 

Softsel/Merisel. 13 years from 1980 to 1993. Met a ton of computer industry luminaries along the way as I was a product acquisitions director for a long time. I have lots of stories from that era, the worst of which was turning down a job offer from Paul Allen in 1981. I was too into hifi and my Hovland friends at the time. Oh well...

[Superdad]

I recently got one of the Blue Jeans Cat6a cables it does say Belden GX10 on it but it isn't a shielded cable. Belden does make the GX10 cable in a shielded version but that's not the one Blue Jeans sells.

 

I was playing around yesterday with this device I bought a while back, it's called an Elfex Polarity tester Elfix Polarity Tester : Equipment powered by the mains generates... basically you move it near an electrical source or a cable or component and it tells you via a buzzing noise and a LED if that device is live ( electrically) and the closer you get the louder it will buzz or how bright the LED shines. I was using a true cat6a shielded cable to feed my Sonore Sonic orbiter I can put the Elfex right on the Shielded cable not a peep, I hooked up the BJC cat6a and it buzzes and flashes.. I also checked some other items in my main system.. The Sonore is super quiet very little, to no noise off that.. I had a Sono's unit in my main system and that threw a bunch of noise, probably the WiFi ( removed it since it was duplicating what my new Orbiter does anyway).. I also found my Shunyata power cords are very quiet, as is the JPS Labs cable I have but the Audioquest NRG 1.5 I was using on the Sonos was very loud..

 

So I think this little device picks up not just AC noise, but also WiFi and RFI/EMI.. it buzzes like crap near my Router. and even my iPhone..

 

Keep in mind that any currents going through wires at high speed will generate a field. So when you are picking up something with your tester it just means that that ethernet cable is radiating some. It really won't effect much unless you are running it parallel to unshielded audio interconnects. And if the ethernet cable had a grounded shield, then all the nasties generated by the cable would be drained into your computer and/or switch (which usually has some ethernet filter, but still). As mentioned before, one could tie the shield just at one ran and let the other end float. At least that way you are not creating a potential ground loop or allowing ground plane grunge to flow from one device to the other.

 

Still, I think the point of a shield is as much to keep junk out of the cable. That is something your tester is not going to tell you anything about. The Blue Jeans Cat6a is definitely a shielded cable--they just don't tie the shields at either end. For this type of wire (and for power cords and speaker cables), I think this is best.

 

Still, I am trying to find a terminated (I hate terminating ethernet cables, especially solid core with shields) set of the Belden, shielded, bonded-pair, 24 AWG solid, CMR insulated 10GX wire with shield terminated at both ends (though I may float one end). It would be the same wire as what Blue Jeans sells, just with the metal around the RJ45s and the drain wire attached to the same. The part numbers from Belden exist, they are CAF1106010 (that example is for a blue 10-footer; the place where the 6 is is the color, and the last two digits are the length). But none of Belden's distributors seem to stock this series. Here is a link to the spec sheet:

http://www.belden.com/techdatas/metric/CAF1100000.pdf?ip=false

[Quest]

Huge would be an understatement. Indeed, I have come up with close to 100 scenarios to test in this subject area, and am beginning to think I will just have to pass on it and let someone else do the work. I do plan to do some limited experiments with a MBP and also with a CAPS PC, if I can fit a SAN adapter into the beastie. A SAN adapter can be used without any networking at all of course, and with no spinning or electronic disks in the machine. All that comes across as little pulses of light.

 

Just 100? I also do tests for the same cable with different sleeving for instance, or playing with the connectors. But anyway, that's digressing. Do it only if you have the interest.

 

 

I agree about your 'revealing flaw' idea, but only to some extent. It is a nice sounding theory, but in the first place, everything about audio is about loss. It's more about finding how to minimise flaws and tune to the sound you like, as I believe a truly neutral 'hifi set' does not exist. However, a system can be 'neutral if you combine various flaws together to create that. What I mean is, for example, even if your equipment, cabling is truly neutral, air humidity and emi is controlled, every piece of room furnishing and room treatment will also have its own sound. I do do tests on even things like different "acoustically transparent cloth" which also have their own sound each. There is no way to avoid 'flaws'. In my system, what is audible has reached a point of ridiculous, IMO. You just have to deal with it as best as you can.

 

Anyway, I also believe that people would rather engage in subjective debate such topics as this, rather than solving simple basic things.. for instance one of the basic requirements in my system is that no cable should touch another, and only one surface (e.g. the floor) and power cords are to maintain a certain distance (I use a EMI meter). This is an example of something that costs no money (other than maybe abit more space), is a theory that is probably easily acceptable (since we can see the EMI readings on meters), but most people don't bother.

 

Sorry for going OT. Just sharing some of my personal views as I have been seeing you contribute for years on theory. I would advise just visiting more people as a start. If you can hear the differences in someone else's home, it might make it easier for you to look into your own system.

 

Quest,

I think that good aftermarket PSUs will always make sense. The problem is spending too much on them. My Welborne Labs PSU is too much money for these equipments. May I ask where you get your aftermarket PSUs from and how much you pay on them?

 

The PSUs I use for my router is relatively cheap, at <$30. I found that certain SMPS sound better than the linear PSUs I own, so that has saved quite abit. However, I use roughly about $1.5k worth of additional power related products on the router alone (filters, distributor, power cords). Am seeing if alternative arrangements can be done to lessen this requirement as I agree it is excessive.

 

The problem with having a complex system is that it also takes a lot of time to reconstruct to re-assess the variables, but will try to do so over the new year.

[Paul R]

When, for whatever reason, a change in someone's system does not produce an audible difference, it is usually pretty safe to say that particular component in that system is optimal. That does not mean the system is lacking- be careful of that assumption. It is pretty much a trap, and as wrong as the guys who say that all amps sound the same, or we have reached the pinnacle of audio reproduction.

 

Nor except in the most general of terms, does cost or complexity reveal the quality of a system. How well the system is put together and tuned has much more effect on how good (or bad) a system sounds than the price tag. You could easily make any system sound horrible. It is not so easy to make any system sound as good as it can.

 

Sure, the systems here are not expensive by qudiophile standards, but I am very pleased with the look and the sound. I can listen to almost any kind of music on them for hours without fatigue dulling my enjoyment. To me, that is the real measure of how successful a system truly is- how much fun and enjoyment do you you get from listening to it? If you ar constantly having to fiddle with it to enjoy the music, you have dome something wrong. IMNSHO of course.

 

I spent several hours playing around today tying to see if I could hear a difference based on Ethernet cable choices, and could hear no difference at all I could attribute to an ethernet cable. Since I don't hear a benefit, I will stop looking into the subject for now.

 

I am in no way implying that no difference exists in you guy's systems, just hat I dannot hear it in mine.

 

Paul

[Quest]

Paul, we all have to make our own journey. I see that you are more or less keeping an open mind (at least better than the past!) so keep at it.

 

I have a similar love for food as I do hifi and find many parallels. I'm sure although you have your favourite dish and have a place where it's done really nicely, you also would not state that this is the 'most optimal'. The world is vast and it's worthwhile to explore. This will help you expand your understanding at a much faster rate.

 

If you watched 'Jiro dreams of Sushi', you find someone who, in their 90s, is still waking up suddenly with ways he can improve his craft. For instance to prepare octopus, he has experimented with different strength in which to massage it, and different lengths of time (e.g. 40mins, 45mins, etc) to get the texture he wants. There are a lot of parallels to me with hifi. Even the basics can be worked on time after time.

 

I've encountered systems where changing major components does not change the sound.. there was even one where change in speaker could not be discerned. I certainly don't think they were optimal.

 

As if the above weren't complicated enough, there are many things that can induce a 'placebo' effect too, but which cannot be refuted, such as the McGurk effect. Your sense of taste is also affected by your sense of hearing. Basically, the senses are not something that is easily understood.

 

 

In any case, enjoy it whichever way you like.

[esldude]

Have you guys given any thought to the strength of the fields involved in these effects? Ethernet cables connected to a wireless router, and not connected to other equipment then changes the sound of a device being fed digital audio files wirelessly? Please, this is simply ridiculous. You guys are embarrassing yourselves and don't even realize it. Enough already. What this really is a testament to is the strength of placebo, expectation bias, and the tendency of humans to detect a difference whether or not one exists.

 

Have you possibly thought of using the magnetic sensor in a smartphone to measure the fields, to graph them? To see how small an effect you are talking about. These things measure in the microtesla range. Or have you thought of the frequency ranges of ethernet and wifi? They aren't anywhere close to audio frequencies. This really is garbage information. Not to mention if all this is true, the combinations possible mean it would take years to figure out what is the best way to arrange it all. It all is just so ridiculously low percentage.

 

The fields generated by the brain aren't much smaller than this. And those are the ones that are important as that is where the real differences lie in this stuff you fellows are babbling on about.

[Paul R]

LOL! Well, the highly objectivist crowd thinks my mind is so open it has fallen out, while the opposite team thinks it is barely possible the concrete around my brain might just crack, given enough time and luck. I must be doing something right.

 

Dennis- erhernet transmissions over UTP can affect Bluetooth transmissions, adding signfigant amounts of static and noise. It is not beyond the realm of the possible that there are ways ethernet noise could get injected into an audio stream. Just because I can not duplicate it here is no reason to assume it impossible. Even using the mid-quality ethernet gear I used to try and duplicate it. I don't have any of the very inexpensive switches and gear people are hearing differences from either. I also do not have any of the low end or poorly built PCs people are using- a MacMini is the lowest end mass market computer here.

 

Quest- it is entirely possibly that in most systems, ethernet cables make no difference at all. It is also possible that your system has some equipment sensitive to interference along the same lines as a bluetooth receiver. I know my limited experience with custom hgh end gear has not filled me with confidence about the build quality of one-up gear. I would rather buy gear that is ran through a proper QA process, and I do not particularly care if it was made in China, Europe, Canada, Mexico, or the US. There is top quality stuff like Magnepan, Ayre, Magico, and so on, and then there is stuff that one can be lucky with and get a good unit, or one can be unlucky with and get a unit thrown together with a hangover.

 

You get one of the later, no matter how uber-expensive it is, and I would definitely believe it might pick up noise from ethernet. What gets to me is the same folks who will spend $500 on an ethernet cable sometimes balk at spending $599 or $1300 for a decent well made computer, like a Mac Mini or a CAPS machine. The NewEgg Frankencomputer special they put together from black friday specials is somehow better than a Mac Mini for music? That is a hard sell to me.

 

It is also possible, as you suggest that only very high end systems can-for lack of a better word- resolve well enough to present those differences.

 

 

Okay climbing down from soapbox now.