Negative Experiences - should we post about them?

[Paul R]

I am definitely having a negative experience with a particular vendor that I did not ever expect to have a negative experience with. I usually don't post negative material because, well - because it just doesn't seem fair to the vendor. One negative blast can do a lot of hard to a small vendor. But this is turning into a cycle where I am definitely feeling abused.

 

What do you guys think? I am inclined to post it here as a warning to others, especially because I am flat out tired of trying to deal with it. The straw that broke the camels back is the vendor not replying to emails or phone calls to try and work this out.

 

-Paul

[mav52]

A poor product ( does not function as advertised) or poor customer service should be noted to provide a guide for potential buyers of that product. I feel it's perfectly ok to note displeasure of a product or a manufacturer

[Jsmith]

I agree with Mav that poor should be reported as well. We are all investing a lot of time and money into this hobby. If we each share our experiences we can help others better predict a positive or avoid a negative interaction.

[Jay192]

A possible exception to posting could be this case where it's a small guy and he's suddenly taken a trip to the hospital or some other thing has come up. If in due course he has no real reason for stalling you then yes, post.

[mav52]

A possible exception to posting could be this case where it's a small guy and he's suddenly taken a trip to the hospital or some other thing has come up. If in due course he has no real reason for stalling you then yes, post.

 

Say what ! you totally lost me with your post, we are addressing negative post about audio equipment

[Paul R]

I think Jay means if it is a small shop and the owner has to take time off for some personal reason, that should, of course, be considered. And I agree.

 

On the other paw, a situation that has gone on for a long time without proper resolution has to be considered too.

 

In Jay's case, putting up an auto-replay of "I'm not available right now due to personal reasons" would be a reasonable thing to do, I think.

 

-Paul

[Jsmith]

Paul - Are you going to post a negative review, or still considering?

[Paul R]

I'm still considering. I think I should in some ways, and yet, I am really hesitant to do that.

 

And I hope nobody thinks I am taking on airs about the situation, I am not trying to brag or put an untoward importance on myself, or claim any special influence. It's partly a moral question on my part - is it the right thing to do, or am I just annoyed that something I spent money on is not what I expected and was a lot more troublesome that it should have been?

 

Let's say we are talking about ProductX.

 

ProductX has a lot of good point, including price and sound.

ProductX has a lot of bad points, including poor build quality, poor documentation, poor sales cycle, odd behavior on the part builder, etc.

 

What *is* the right thing to do there?

 

Say nothing?

Tell the story with no conclusions?

Tell my opinion?

 

Add in another factor - If I should tell the story, should I tell the story here on CA or somewhere else? CA is *my* preference, but just being my preference does not make it right.

 

-Paul

 

 

 

 

Paul - Are you going to post a negative review, or still considering?

[Jay192]

Say what ! you totally lost me with your post, we are addressing negative post about audio equipment

 

I think Jay means if it is a small shop and the owner has to take time off for some personal reason, that should, of course, be considered. And I agree.

 

On the other paw, a situation that has gone on for a long time without proper resolution has to be considered too.

 

In Jay's case, putting up an auto-replay of "I'm not available right now due to personal reasons" would be a reasonable thing to do, I think.

 

-Paul

 

SOri to cause concern Mav52, yes, Paul's interpretation is what I meant.

 

I'm still considering. I think I should in some ways, and yet, I am really hesitant to do that.

 

And I hope nobody thinks I am taking on airs about the situation, I am not trying to brag or put an untoward importance on myself, or claim any special influence. It's partly a moral question on my part - is it the right thing to do, or am I just annoyed that something I spent money on is not what I expected and was a lot more troublesome that it should have been?

 

Let's say we are talking about ProductX.

 

ProductX has a lot of good point, including price and sound.

ProductX has a lot of bad points, including poor build quality, poor documentation, poor sales cycle, odd behavior on the part builder, etc.

 

What *is* the right thing to do there?

 

Say nothing?

Tell the story with no conclusions?

Tell my opinion?

 

Add in another factor - If I should tell the story, should I tell the story here on CA or somewhere else? CA is *my* preference, but just being my preference does not make it right.

 

-Paul

 

I would give it a week or so, see what happens, and then decide if to post or not. Posting here (at least) would seem logical given it's a product other CA users might use or be interested in. I would tell the whole story objectively, then add your opinion.

 

It's a bit strange that the vendor is so unhelpful; s/he would know that (i'm assuming here) under the relevant consumer laws the product must do what it was advertised to do, or they have to replace / repair it, or give you a refund.

 

Then, other potential purchasers can at least go in with their eyes open.

[mav52]

SOri to cause concern Mav52, yes, Paul's interpretation is what I meant.

 

 

 

Thanks Jay, I thought I had missed a few post. Carry on sir

[Jsmith]

What *is* the right thing to do there?

 

Say nothing?

Tell the story with no conclusions?

Tell my opinion?

-Paul

 

Paul,

 

I understand you wanting to think it through before posting something that may have a negative effect on someone's business. And I don't think you have to worry about anyone thinking you are trying to place importance on yourself.

 

Unfortunately I am not wise enough to help you decide what the right thing to do is. The only suggestion I can make is the following. If you do decide to tell your story, will it be something that others in the CA community can learn from? Can someone else benefit from it, or potentially avoid the same issues? Or is it more of a vent to share your frustrations with the world. I am not saying that the later does not have merit. Sometimes a good vent is just what the Dr. order. Just might help you decide what you want to do.

[Melvin]

Paul .. yes, we all know an angry rant can do some damage to a reputation so I give you credit for holding back (many do not). However, you seem to be an intelligent, sensible guy and I think it's appropriate to share the negative as much as the positive. Forums like CA help drive the sales for many a small manufacturer (look at Schiit for example) and they all know a bad experience can come back to haunt them. It's the nature of the beast. I hope it works out for you. I say post away!

[mav52]

If a user of a product never complained or complimented a product we would still be listening to 8 track tape players, vinyl ( I still do) and driving around on wooden spoked wheels. Negative criticisms breeds improvements through change, it's the way design and manufacturing has worked for years. Manufacturers understand there is good with the bad hence product improvements.

[Paul R]

Basically the whole negative thing has nothing to do with the technical greatness of this product, but it does have a lot to do with dealing with the vendor. First, let me point out, I really like the vendor personally, and that fact weighs heavily in the way I judge equipment.

 

This is of course, dealing with Klaus up at Odyssey Audio. The products he creates sound fantastic. But - and here is where I allowed my judgement to be swayed a lot because I like Klaus - the build quality on the gear is not acceptable. Not until you raise hell with them and provide unassailable proof that a hunk of equipment is faulty. Even then, things like inverted polarity on an input jack are "minor" issues to Klaus, while to me, they are major issues.

 

I sold the Khartago amp, which was a fully upgraded amp with everything in the world in it, not because I didn't love the sound, but because all the arguing left a bad taste in my mouth, and literally ruined the enjoyment of the unit for me.

 

Someone got a VERY good deal on it too - $1100 for the unit (plus shipping). And I made Klaus promise to support the amp with full warranty and support for the buyer, in writing, before I sold it.

 

I personally paid $1800 for the unit plus another $110 in shipping charges back and forth to Klaus to "fix" little nagging things. Klaus valued the amp at $2400, but gave me the deal for $1800 because of the issues. Or possibly, he just screwed me over because I was not an "important" buyer, but I don't believe that.

 

That was the second amp- the first amp arrived here with the transformer unsecured and banged around something fierce during shipping. I flat out refused to accept that one and returned it - at my expense.

 

The second amp arrived with a pair of the input jacks having inverted polarity. Not cool, and it aggravated the dickens out of me.

 

A $1500+ preamp I bought from them arrived with several other problems, including a remote control that would cause the volume control to stick and go to full volume (very uncool), mixed up input jacks (again, uncool) and a set of loose tubes, which is probably normal for tubes but still annoyed me that I had to open the case and reseat them. That was returned, with a bit of a restocking fee, and of course, I paid all the shipping charges. It also took more than a month for them to refund the balance, and they refunded it via check, not against my credit card. This struck me as a little bit odd, but hey, that's okay. They did eventually return the money we agreed upon.

 

To be fair, once it was working correctly, the amp sounded as sweet as anything I have ever heard. It had enormous power and current reserves and did just about everything right. My friends who heard it easily compared it to much more expensive solid state amps. Easily competitive with other brands, like Bryston.

 

So fair warning guys - if you buy any of the sweet sounding equipment from Odyssey, either be prepared to nag them until they get things right, or just don't go there.

 

Yours,

-Paul

[Melvin]

Paul .. thank you for sharing. You have described a situation most folks fear in dealing with small online vendors. Regardless of a reputation and "money back" return policy, many people have been burned .. or at least scorched. I feel your pain. A number of years ago I had a PS Audio product arrive DOA and although a replacement was eventually shipped, and I stress eventually, it was such a PITA all around I wouldn't purchase from them again. What you describe sounds far worse. I don't blame you for getting rid of the amp & pre and moving on. An experience like that just sucks the joy out of the experience. Being a current and happy owner of an Odyssey integrated it saddens me to hear news like this. Best of luck with the new gear.