USB cable comparisons

[bogi]

93 Ohm and 12mm in diameter with both Data and Power Runs, separated.

 

Maybe you thought I wish to connect the 2 cables together on both ends only to separate data and power, but no, I will use a separate power supply. For the data cable I need data+, data- and ground.

 

I could use RG62 for the power cable, but it is unclear for me, if it has sense to care about impedance match also for the power cable, where no signal is transferred. I thought it is important only for the data cable.

[fmak]

Maybe you thought I wish to connect the 2 cables together on both ends only to separate data and power, but no, I will use a separate power supply. For the data cable I need data+, data- and ground.

 

I could use RG62 for the power cable, but it is unclear for me, if it has sense to care about impedance match also for the power cable, where no signal is transferred. I thought it is important only for the data cable.

 

 

gold plated usb plug | eBay

 

using RG62, you can do Data + center; Data - shield; Power + and - can be assigned to another.

[YashN]

'existing, compliant cables'

 

who makes them; there are only claims, no measurements I can find?

 

A lot of manufacturers: the compliance is verified by a small set of authorised labs, and the compliance logo for the class of of USB capability is set by the USB organisation.

 

Now, if you don't trust these, you might as well build your own factory to make your own cables.

[fmak]

A lot of manufacturers: the compliance is verified by a small set of authorised labs, and the compliance logo for the class of of USB capability is set by the USB organisation.

 

Now, if you don't trust these, you might as well build your own factory to make your own cables.

 

by cutting up such cables one probably will have to do what you say. A fair few of the free cables are

disgusting.

 

Compliance with the usb spec for computer use is not necessarily enough for high quality audio

replay where crosstalk, impedance matching and reflections are far more important than printing!

[bogi]

fmak, I dont wish to connect the power+ wire to the computer USB port, as I wish to use external power supply.

What you suggest is to use 2 cables between the DAC and my computer, but then I would need yet 3rd cable for the power supply. I would like to stay with 2 cables only, one leading to PC USB port and the other to power supply.

 

I am searching for shielded 2 wire cable with proper impedance for USB. Therefore I thought about re-using an existing USB cable, or buying some small length of that 110 Ohm DH Labs Silver Sonic D-110 AES/EBU Cable.

 

Thanks for the ebay link.

[YashN]

Compliance with the usb spec for computer use is not necessarily enough for high quality audio

replay where crosstalk, impedance matching and reflections are far more important than printing!

 

Impedance is covered by the compliance. As for crosstalk, do your own power and signal separation. It's easy.

 

That the printer cables are not good enough *is* the whole point. They're not good enough as is, but they can be made better for very little cost (time and materials).

[fmak]

fmak, I dont wish to connect the power+ wire to the computer USB port, as I wish to use external power supply.

What you suggest is to use 2 cables between the DAC and my computer, but then I would need yet 3rd cable for the power supply. I would like to stay with 2 cables only, one leading to PC USB port and the other to power supply.

 

I am searching for shielded 2 wire cable with proper impedance for USB. Therefore I thought about re-using an existing USB cable, or buying some small length of that 110 Ohm DH Labs Silver Sonic D-110 AES/EBU Cable.

 

Thanks for the ebay link.

 

if you don't need power, just use bnc between Data+(centre) and Data-(shield). If you then

wish to shield, buy a 6mm copper or silver plated shield cable and slot it in.

[bogi]

fmak, but I already wrote "I need to use two wires data+, data- expect of ground" and "For the data cable I need data+, data- and ground". It doesn't function without the ground wire, I tried it. So BNC cable is not enough.

[fmak]

fmak, but I already wrote "I need to use two wires data+, data- expect of ground" and "For the data cable I need data+, data- and ground". It doesn't function without the ground wire, I tried it. So BNC cable is not enough.

 

Why can't you connect a ground wire or use an extra shield as ground?

[sandyk]

Why can't you connect a ground wire or use an extra shield as ground?

 

You are more likely to be better off using a separate thin shielded 0 volts wire that connects to the same USB port on the PC, although that can be fiddly to do. It could even go inside the same expandable copper shield too, if you can get short lengths at a reasonable price . (?)

That way you are also able to break the shield from the PC before it goes to the USB device and gives the possibility of inserting a cleaner earth to the cable going from the external Linear PSU to the separately powered USB device, provided that the external PSU uses a 3 pin mains plug.

 

Alex

[bogi]

The mains adapter of my notebook uses 2 pin mains plug and my power source too. I am thinking also about using battery as power source.

 

USB power is required only for USB part of my DAC. The DAC iself has it's own power source, but it is not used for the USB input.

[sandyk]

The DAC iself has it's own power source, but it is not used for the USB input.

 

In which case, as your DAC doesn't need to see the +5V coming in from the notebook , you can use D+, D- and the black 0 volts wire. It would still be best to shield that black wire separately to D+ and D-,(2 cables with shields, one a twisted pair of the correct impedance , and the other a thin single core shielded cable ) and solder the shields together at the PC end, USB plug's metal case.. The shields of both cables shouldn't need to be connected at the DACs USB plug. A piece of heat shrink tubing could be fitted over both cables at both plugs.

[fmak]

Impedance is covered by the compliance. As for crosstalk, do your own power and signal separation. It's easy.

 

That the printer cables are not good enough *is* the whole point. They're not good enough as is, but they can be made better for very little cost (time and materials).

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/

 

when is grandstanding not grandstanding?

[fmak]

Sandyk- Gr cable

 

I shall try when I get hold of some 93R cable (but only in 30M lengths!)

[bogi]

My DAC needs to become +5V from the cable, connected to the DAC USB plug, but I use +5V from the external supply.

 

Currently I have an older Y type USB cable which functions OK, but I want to create a new one, as the old one uses USB type A female for my previous M2Tech hiFace and I need now USB type B male for my new DAC. My old cable is too short for convenient use with my new DAC. The old one could be shorter, as I used yet coax cable between the notebook and hiFace. Therefore I want to make a new cable specifically for my new DAC with minimal, but sufficient length.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13223[/ATTACH]

 

The old one is made this way:

+5V and ground from an external power supply are connected to VCC and GND pins of the DAC USB connector

DATA+ and DATA- pins form USB port of my notebook are connected to DATA+ and DATA- of the DAC USB connector

GND pin of the notebook USB connector is connected to GND pin of the DAC USB connector, so the data and power cables are connected through GND.

The power cable branch is shielded cable with one wire, the wire is used as VCC and the shield as GND.

The data cable branch is shielded with 2 wires, the wires are DATA+ and DATA- and the shield is GND.

 

In which case, as your DAC doesn't need to see the +5V coming in from the notebook , you can use D+, D- and the black 0 volts wire. It would still be best to shield that black wire separately to D+ and D-,(2 cables with shields, one a twisted pair of the correct impedance , and the other a thin single core shielded cable ) and solder the shields together at the PC end, USB plug's metal case.. The shields of both cables shouldn't need to be connected at the DACs USB plug. A piece of heat shrink tubing could be fitted over both cables at both plugs.

 

You suggest me now to use a twisted pair of the correct impadance for DATA+ and DATA- and single core shielded cable for GND; both shields have to be connected to the USB plugs metal case on the PC end only. That's nice idea, I will try to follow it.

 

sandyk, explain me please yet the "power" cable for VCC and GND, as my DAC requires power on the USB connector. Using external power makes audible improvement in comparison with using VCC (+5V) from the notebook USB port, I tested it. Do you mean this power branch has to be shielded cable too? If yes, where to connect the shield? Connect it to the shield of the data branch? Or no shield is necessary for power wires?

 

Do you have a concrete suggestion which cable to use as 'twisted pair of the correct impedance' and 'single core shielded cable' ?

The only shielded cable with more cores and similar impedance I found is 110 Ohm DH Labs SilverSonic D110.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13226[/ATTACH]

[YashN]

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/gordon-rankin-says-im-wrong-about-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-cable-sound-20814/

 

when is grandstanding not grandstanding?

 

 

I have no idea what you mean here.

[PopPop]

I'm a firm believer in the notion that cables can and do affect the sound of my system. Not all of the time, but certainly some of the time, it's really dependent on the components that are being connected. Recently my 5 meter Audioquest Cinnamon cable quit working, I think a wire may have broken from my frequent motion with my laptop while surfing my library from my listening chair. I swapped it out for the dimestore cable that came with my network printer while I waited for the delivery of a Mapleshade Clearlink Plus (with great anticipation). Yesterday the new cable arrived from Mapleshade Store and after a few moments of listening I couldn't distinguish any real noticeable difference. I listened through a few movements of a Mozart violin concerto, changing cables in between, and still wouldn't bet on my ability to tell the difference in a DBT. Some people have suggested that the cable will sound different with time but that's dubious. I have yet to find, in any case with any cable or component, that I was able to hear any appreciable improvement in the SQ with ythe passage of time.

 

So, I give the Clearlink Plus a "C" for innovation and design - seemed like a good idea to unbundle the wires, but for me it hasn't improved my listening pleasure.

[Jud]

Some people have suggested that the cable will sound different with time but that's dubious. I have yet to find, in any case with any cable or component, that I was able to hear any appreciable improvement in the SQ with ythe passage of time.

 

So, I give the Clearlink Plus a "C" for innovation and design - seemed like a good idea to unbundle the wires, but for me it hasn't improved my listening pleasure.

 

That's where the satisfaction guarantee comes in handy.

[PopPop]

Right you are, Jud. The insidious nature of the audiophile bug is it's tendency to make you believe the cable will actually improve your system if you tinker with some other component, cable, or acoustic panel in your room - allowing it to display its true magnificent nature. Sheesh, can I really put a twenty nine cent cable smack dab in the middle of a $10K system and still look at myself in the mirror?

 

 

 

Having fun in Shoreview.

[pooger]

Recently my 5 meter Audioquest Cinnamon cable quit working, ... from Mapleshade Store and after a few moments of listening I couldn't distinguish any real noticeable difference.

 

5 meters is pretty much the length limit for USB cables (at least 1 & @, 3 may be longer, I'm not familiar with the spec). In ways, I'm surprised Pierre makes his USB cables that long, given how relatively unshielded it is. Also surprised that it worked even as well as the cheap cable. I think it's a great design, but for short runs. You should return it, and get another Cinnamon if that was a good sound for you.

[wwaldmanfan]

I'm a firm believer in the notion that cables can and do affect the sound of my system. Not all of the time, but certainly some of the time, it's really dependent on the components that are being connected. Recently my 5 meter Audioquest Cinnamon cable quit working, I think a wire may have broken from my frequent motion with my laptop while surfing my library from my listening chair. I swapped it out for the dimestore cable that came with my network printer while I waited for the delivery of a Mapleshade Clearlink Plus (with great anticipation). Yesterday the new cable arrived from Mapleshade Store and after a few moments of listening I couldn't distinguish any real noticeable difference. I listened through a few movements of a Mozart violin concerto, changing cables in between, and still wouldn't bet on my ability to tell the difference in a DBT. Some people have suggested that the cable will sound different with time but that's dubious. I have yet to find, in any case with any cable or component, that I was able to hear any appreciable improvement in the SQ with ythe passage of time.

 

So, I give the Clearlink Plus a "C" for innovation and design - seemed like a good idea to unbundle the wires, but for me it hasn't improved my listening pleasure.

 

 

Your unfortunate experience actually reinforces the empirical subjectivist argument, rather than bolstering the inexorable position of the objectivists, as there are some very smart folks here who claim to have obtained the opposite result with the very same USB cable.

[sandyk]

My DAC needs to become +5V from the cable, connected to the DAC USB plug, but I use +5V from the external supply.

 

Currently I have an older Y type USB cable which functions OK, but I want to create a new one, as the old one uses USB type A female for my previous M2Tech hiFace and I need now USB type B male for my new DAC. My old cable is too short for convenient use with my new DAC. The old one could be shorter, as I used yet coax cable between the notebook and hiFace. Therefore I want to make a new cable specifically for my new DAC with minimal, but sufficient length.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13223[/ATTACH]

 

The old one is made this way:

+5V and ground from an external power supply are connected to VCC and GND pins of the DAC USB connector

DATA+ and DATA- pins form USB port of my notebook are connected to DATA+ and DATA- of the DAC USB connector

GND pin of the notebook USB connector is connected to GND pin of the DAC USB connector, so the data and power cables are connected through GND.

The power cable branch is shielded cable with one wire, the wire is used as VCC and the shield as GND.

The data cable branch is shielded with 2 wires, the wires are DATA+ and DATA- and the shield is GND.

 

 

 

You suggest me now to use a twisted pair of the correct impadance for DATA+ and DATA- and single core shielded cable for GND; both shields have to be connected to the USB plugs metal case on the PC end only. That's nice idea, I will try to follow it.

 

sandyk, explain me please yet the "power" cable for VCC and GND, as my DAC requires power on the USB connector. Using external power makes audible improvement in comparison with using VCC (+5V) from the notebook USB port, I tested it. Do you mean this power branch has to be shielded cable too? If yes, where to connect the shield? Connect it to the shield of the data branch? Or no shield is necessary for power wires?

 

Do you have a concrete suggestion which cable to use as 'twisted pair of the correct impedance' and 'single core shielded cable' ?

The only shielded cable with more cores and similar impedance I found is 110 Ohm DH Labs SilverSonic D110.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]13226[/ATTACH]

 

bogi

I would suggest using a good quality USB cable without the red and black wires connected for the data cable, plus a single core thin shielded audio cable as used in some amplifier's internal wiring and available at most electronic stores quite cheaply.

They could both be run inside expandable shield as fmak suggests.

I am however, not sure that using the existing internal black wire for the 0 volts will cause any noticeable degradation in a relatively short USB cable.

The way you connect the power will depend on your own particular situation. If the power leads are relatively short then a twisted pair without shielding should be O.K. You could even use a 7.5A mains lead for the power.

I don't have that problem as can be seen in an earlier version of my own external +5V Linear PSU.

Regards

Alex

 

[JHG]

Your unfortunate experience actually reinforces the empirical subjectivist argument, rather than bolstering the inexorable position of the objectivists, as there are some very smart folks here who claim to have obtained the opposite result with the very same USB cable.

 

I certainly did. Very nice improvement after about 200 hours.

[PopPop]

Your unfortunate experience actually reinforces the empirical subjectivist argument, rather than bolstering the inexorable position of the objectivists, as there are some very smart folks here who claim to have obtained the opposite result with the very same USB cable.

 

i don't consider my experience unfortunate. It was a learning experience. Any one else's experience is irrelevant - different results in different systems. I will probably try another cable or two and if I don't see any good come of it I will probably just be happy with another AQ Cinnamon cable. It's all good.

[bogi]

I would suggest using a good quality USB cable without the red and black wires connected for the data cable, plus a single core thin shielded audio cable as used in some amplifier's internal wiring and available at most electronic stores quite cheaply.

They could both be run inside expandable shield as fmak suggests.

 

Thanks. Now I better understand what fmak wrote previously, thanks too.

 

What do you think about - to buy it only because of the cable (I would use my own connectors)

Belkin Gold Series Hi-Speed USB 2.0 Device Cable £12.48 incl. shipping to Slovakia

QED Performance USB A-B Graphite 1m for HD Digital Audio £19 incl. shipping to Slovakia

 

 

I am however, not sure that using the existing internal black wire for the 0 volts will cause any noticeable degradation in a relatively short USB cable.

 

I can do comparison with a cable (like the 2 examples above). First, I will cut it to 2 pieces of approximately the same length, as I need only about 40 cm. Then I can cut the USB type B connector, replace it with type A connector, solder DATA+, DATA- to the cable and use another shielded cable for the ground wire. This way I can do comparison with the other half of the original cable.

 

The way you connect the power will depend on your own particular situation. If the power leads are relatively short then a twisted pair without shielding should be O.K. You could even use a 7.5A mains lead for the power.

 

I will make a short power lead terminated by USB type A connector for the case of using battery supply. For the case of using external supply I can use shielded USB extension cable.

 

I tried more simple USB chargers with my current Y type USB cable and hiFace Two. Most of them audibly helped despite of switching type of power supply. I am not iPositive, but I found the adapter from my old 2007 iPod Video as the best one for these purposes. Funny, maybe. I am also considering of buying TeraDak U9VA Linear Low noise Power Supply, which has also 5V USB output and has positive feedback on different forums. But I will at first test a battery power supply.