LUMIN - Audiophile Network Music Player

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What is the thinking behind the chassi earthpoint at the back on Lumïn? Is it expected tu used between dac or what?

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12 hours ago, erniejade said:

Are you sure about this app?

I've tried it. It look the same as the Lumin app and works the same but of course, it does not have all features for Lumin (like down/up sampling).

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@wklie Today I tried to play TuneIn radio. It has worked excellent for 2 months but today the radio channels did not work. When going back to the app, all radio channels where gone (I use only domestic free public radio stations payed over the tax bill).

 

I could see that I was inlogged. But when trying refresh the the channels nothing happened.

 

So I reloaded the app. Now I got an email confirming the order and that I have to pay SEK 109 per month. I closed the agreement as I have not signed such a contract. When checking your homepage you write:

 

TuneIn is built right into the heart of the LUMIN App. Simply create a free TuneIn account and add Radio Stations to your TuneIn 'Library' for them to appear in the LUMIN App.

 

To me this means it is free, but it seems the stations are not free. Please confirm and be clear what it means. If I have to pay I think you should be clear on that. My feeling is that I have been screwed up.

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A review is just one opinion per magazine. If we agree, we like them, if not, we or some of us try to find excuses like conspiracy theories. It is not a competition with winners and losers in my view. I see it more as a text that can give some inspiration and thoughts where the most interesting is the arguments and reason behind the review. Not least to know what kind of music they used and to get some ideas of the full set up. 

 

There is nothing like the best dac, amplifier ... in the world. Read and get inspired but do your own review and verdict. It is not a monopoly of TAS, Stereophile or who ever. 

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On 3/13/2020 at 9:52 AM, wklie said:

Each feature request needs to be evaluated from user demand, marketing, company direction, technical feasibility, how it integrates with our existing features and UX implications, etc.

... and it ticked my box on the spot. I was searching for a bridge in order to get rid of the laptop as a musicplayer. There are too many built in conflicts or possible conflicts that might detoriate sound in a laptop. I also wanted a solution via ethernet and possibilities for upsampling to 353/384 in order to pass the FIR-filters in my dac plus I needed dsd. I also wanted a very good app in order to have full overview on my music and available domestic radio channels. And of course, it should sounds good.

 

This is why landed on a Lumïn U1 Mini. On top of this, it looks nice, have excellent support, I can use both, toslink, AES3, USB, RCA Coax... Then there are features like Qubuz, Tidal, Spotify and MQA. They are features that have no values to me as I only deal with my own albums (CD and downloads).

 

(I'm not in favour of streaming aa it gives less money to the musicians and composers which has had negative effect on new music of my taste (jazz and classical). Record companies have been forced to close, the best producers has left, concert tickets has riced in order to compensate, record stores are closed. The money has been gathered by very few distributors and they take no responsibility of new music like music companies in the old days...)

 

This is my experience behind my choice. It is my "truth" and gives me high value. When it comes to sound quality I'm sure there are many contenders that are as good. For me the other features have been more important for making my decision.

 

 

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Examples on tags:

• Artist
• Album
• Song
• Genre (jazz, classical, rock...)
• Composer
• Conductor
• Producer
• Record label
• Year of recording or release
• Soloist
• Arranger...
• Album image

Some of them are embedded to the album, called "metadata", others you can add yourself. You can also correct/change them.To do this you need some kind of database, like https://www.mp3tag.de/en/index.html and a musicplayer that collect the files for U1 Mini like for example https://minimserver.com that has a so called "open home" standard.

 

Please note that quality of the metadata is very up and down, especially on classical music. There is no standard for this.

 

Example: an album with Beethoven piano concerto played by Berlin Symphony Orchestra conducted by Sir Simon Rattle with soloist Daniel Barenboim.

 

Who is the artist? This is not obvious. I put the conductor as artist, Beethoven as composer, Barenboim as soloartist, the orchestra as "album artist" and the genre will be "classical". Others may be put genre as "Piano concerto". If the image resolution is less than 500 kB I also replace it to a better one. 

 

I'm very picky on the database. When you have a lot of albums it is essential to have good order to keep good overview of your music and find what you are looking for. Yes, it takes some efforts but it is rewarding. Don't expect that ripping or downloads are following your idea about a good structure. Between thumbs I spend maybe 5-10 minutes extra after each download/ripping to get the database "correct".

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36 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

Thought it best to correct that bit of misinformation

Thanks... you are absolutely correct. Sorry for misuse of term.

 

However, the media server has to support "Open Home" standard, which is not obvious and the case for all. I used previously JRiver in DLNA as a pure media server. It was OK for PCM but not when playing DSD or converting from DSD to PCM using AES. After many discussions and proposals from JRiver forum, I gave up and switched to MinimServer. I guess there are others as well but I do not know them.

 

And just to close the loop, we won't be adding support for OpenHome. (JimH [admin] - JRiver)

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9 hours ago, F208Frank said:

Little off topic but Qobuz plus Roon does make recommendations, just need to play songs under albums, same with Tidal.

That is the normal procedure for most people whatever musicplayer you use.

 

My post above shows one way to deal with structure that I use on my own ripped or downloaded files using "tags" as you were not aware of the term. But "play songs under albums" is the normal procudures for everybody. Normal procudure also in Lumïn is that you pick an album and then play the songs under that album. But a good structure helps you to find which album you want to play, especially if you have thousands of them. @stefano_mbp illustrate this very clear in the post #2300

 

Let's say you have tagged all your files with "genre" like soul, jazz, pop, blues, rock or classical. If you feel for some blues, you chose the folder "genre" and search for or scroll down to "blues. If you have tagged your files correct your blues album will be shown on the screen. You pick the album you want play. You can then chose to play the full album or the songs you want to play. This is just one example how to make you choice.

 

Just for fun I made a choice on songs some time ago. Under the song tab I searched for "All the Things you Are" and got 47 different versions from different albums, artists and genres. I then selected 10 versions that I played. You chose yourself how you want to pick the albums. The better structure you have built up, the more possibilities you will have to find your music. This works the same as with physical albums in your shelves. If you just put them in random order you will have issues to find what you are looking for. It is not a big deal if you have 100 albums, but lets say you have 5.000 or 10,000 albums you will have no control or overview without a good structure. Working with "tags" is tool to make it. It is just as in an office where you have different files in your shelves for different subjects and in each file have a register from "A-Z" in order to have easier access to your documents.

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In my view this is very annoying. Maybe there is good reason to avoid the standard 2V/4V (rca/bal), but there are also negative once when you mix with other brands. I hav the same issues with Aesthetix dac that has a balanced output around 5V and I do not like it.

 

The worst practical issue is that minimum volume level is too high. I have the dac connected to VTL 6.5 preamp and lowest volume of "1" is much too high in my view. This is not the case when connecting to standard output level gear. An output of 6V (balanced) is a showstopper in my book.

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@Kray

 

 

If I understand you correctly the information you are looking for you find under support on how to use the app on Lumïn homepage. Some extractions:

 

 

First of all you chose the view. The box to the left you come to the album level, second box you see the albums and tunes on the albums. Tic the one to the left and then tic the album.

 

Then you see the following pictos shown at the bottom.

 

If you tic nr 4 from the left, you clear the playlist (if anything is there) and all tunes from the chosen album will show up in the playlist and play all of them

 

- If you tic the first from the left, it will only place one tune in the playlist and play it.

- Then you can chose another tune from the same or another album and tic the scond box and it will be played after the tune you play now.

- You can also chose another album to be played after the on you are playing now. Then you chose a new album and tick the third box from the left.

 

The flexibility is superb, but to really get it I advice you to read carefully the support pages on how to use the app. It is necissary as the Lumïn app has many options that are not so common elsewhere. Once you have got it I'm sure you will like it.

 

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20 hours ago, Berlin said:

The lumin app does handle my minimserver database wrongly as it seems.

This looks like a minimserver issue to my eyes. My advice to you is to contact https://forum.minimserver.com/

 

I'm sure you will get a fast reply and accurate solutions. Their service is top notch. 

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9 hours ago, jcn3 said:

@Berlin -- you also need to install minimwatch. Minimwatch is the tool to do detailed configuration of minimserver.

@Berlin

I agree. This is true if you run a NAS and use a pc/laptop to configurate the NAS. But if you use a pc/laptop as the server with an external HDD, you do not need Minimwatch. Then you do the configuration direct in Minimserver (this is my setup using a dedicated laptop only for this and for downloads).

 

You also need a database of course. I use Mp3Tag.de which also have a number of possibilities to arrange your data. They have also excellent service over the web.

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@wklie I am very happy with my Lumin U1 Mini. So far I have only played music from my ripped and my downloaded files. At this time I wanted to try Quboz as they have downloading offers that suit my taste.

 

I opened Quboz from the Lumin app and got an offer for 1 month trial. So I filled up what I was asked for but then it was stop. I got a message that Quboz is not availble for Sweden and as far as I understand, not for Norway, Finland or Denmark as well.

 

Have you not signed up for Quboz to all your Lumin customers? Quboz is one of your sales argument to buy Lumin but it seems that 25 million people in the Nordic countries are left aside. Or is there a ”secret way” to get access. I must say that I feel a bit discriminated.

 

What info do you have on this subject?

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Thanks @wklie  and @pl_svn It seems to follow the typical pattern of our time, lying, cheating, fixing and tripping to move forward and no-one seems to bother.

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24 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

(... if/when you succeed 😛 )

It is impossible alone but if the hifi press, hardware manufactures and forums put down their feet together with the musicians maybe it could work. The industry is today run by lawyers and distributors. Music has only become a tool. 

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13 hours ago, psme said:

The theory of Leedh Processing is to avoid too many bit of information. Because many least significant bits will be lose in DAC conversion, hence Leedh Processing try to use as little (number of) bit as possible to represent volume value

Maybe I misunderstood and if so please correct....

 

I read you sentence as Leedh filter out some information like 24 bit will be transferred to a lower figure, or is it the frequency of bits/sec that will be lowered. How does it deal with DSD Native vs DSD DoP?
 

13 hours ago, Joel6m said:

I have found during my review of the X1 and Lumin Amps a bit more transparency when you let the maximum volume in the Lumin settings at full scale (100%) using only the usual circular controller on top of the Lumin app.

Here is also something I do not get fully. When looking at Lumin’s homepage they write:

 

Note: Leedh Processing has no effect when LUMIN volume is set at 100%

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4 hours ago, wklie said:

On some of the Lumin models including X1, DSD output to analog does not go through PCM conversion

Hmmm... 🤔 is this really correct. From what I can see from the block chart of ES9038 Pro, all incoming signals will be treated as oversampled PCM before going into the DAC.

 

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Initially after I bought U1 Mini, I had frequent issues with my USB cable lost contact with the dac when turning on/off the kitchen fan or when my wine cooler turned on/off. Eventually I gave up and used AES/EBU instead with no issues of what so ever. 

 

After the last upgrade to 13/13a I decided to give the USB a new try. I have no played with my Nordost USB since the upgrade with no hick-ups at all. No lost contacts like before, not a single one! I can now enjoy my DSD files again without convert to PCM. On top of this I think the latest upgrade gives a more distinct sound stage. 

 

Could it be that the 13/13a makes the USB output more stable? It seems so...🙂

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20 hours ago, One and a half said:

In the case of the fan, the wall switch can be replaced, the cooler would need a new thermostat and or cap change on the motor. Both are inexpensive repairs and that crud is still there left untreated.

Thanks, @One and a half. I will contact Bosch referring to your tip.

 

At the same time I did not have this issue with AES. I guess it is less sensitive (higher voltage?) than USB. But for USB I lost contacts many times per day during my first months with Lumin. But since approx 2 weeks using USB again it has worked with no hick ups. The only changes made is new version 13/13a. Could not USB connections be more or less sensitive against HF noise?

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Will the Roon "Uncertified banner" hit Lumïn September 21st? As far as I understand Lumïn is Roon Ready but not certified, or...?

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/uncertified-roon-ready-devices-announcement/120298

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1 hour ago, wklie said:

With the music library properly tagged and using MinimServer, there should not be a need to use folder...

I can confirm this. I've been using JRiver for years and was actually very happy with it playing from the laptop via USB to the dac. As I know JRiver quite well my intention was to continue with it together with U1 Mini. After all it has some very good features.

 

However I also had problems with the libraries. The map folder worked but not good enough in my view. Besides this I had issues with gaps playing dsd files and some "tic" and "pops" in higher resolutions above DSD64 or 24/192. So I uploaded MinimServer and Mp3Tag and made a copy of my musiclibrary into Mp3Tag to serve the program. I had to spend maybe 1-2 hours with some fixes on files that showed errors with MinimServer/Mp3Tag. Both have an excellent support from their forum or by email.

 

Once everything was in place I have not used JRiver at all. I do not miss it. It is a great software but the combination U1 Mini I find MinimServer superior. All features in the Lumin app works as supposed to. In my experience it is excellent. Besides it har really been a lift soundwise together with my Aesthetix dac. It was like a new cleaned window with clear view as there were no glass in between. No tics, pops, gaps or other hick-ups like before on higher resolutions. 

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2 hours ago, wklie said:

Lumin U1 MINI user reported a positive result after changing from Synology 216+

I'm about to go the other way. I use a SSD laptop (Windows 10) plus external HDD (4TB WD) and doing backups manually on another HDD. Actually I have almost decided to go for a Synology (rather than a QNAP due to lack of local service).

 

Just to be clear. Do you @wkliesuggest that it is better or as good as, to stay with a laptop solution with an external HDD? 

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2 hours ago, chungjh said:

I don't have any issues

I have tried both with or without grounding withour hearing any differences. I was not expecting any either as I could not hear any issues without. If I should experience ground hum it could maybe be a solution to adjust ground potential problems. I guess this is why itbis there. If no issues, why bother. This is my view.

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16 hours ago, DrNikonian said:

Which is the better option for my Lumin T1, in terms of sound quality:

There is no such truth. Music experience has a lot of personal influence that are not the same between us. My general experience is that a good preamplifier contributes to sound signature that you like or dislike. It also has other features to connect other sources. I use VTL TI 6.5 and I will not replace it. I chosed between VTL and Audio Research and VTL was more to my taste. Others do the opposite, so who is rigtht? Then you have the speakers, the room and your music taste to bring into the equation. You do not listen to Lumïn T1, you are listening to a system that play together.

 

My advice is to try find a dealer where you can do the test and to let your own ears decide what is best for you.

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My Lumin U1 Mini took also around 4 minutes or less.