HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, sjg said:

BTW - Is it possible to run the HQPlayer Client on a second Raspberry Pi? 

 

I have not made any ARM build of the HQPlayer Client yet. I just haven't expected anybody needing such...

 

Technically should be possible to build it for Debian Buster, armhf and arm64 architectures.

 

[Miska]

I have some Allo overlays now included on the image, but I'm not sure what the USBridge stuff needs...

 

• allo-boss-dac-pcm512x-audio
• allo-digione
• allo-katana-dac-audio
• allo-piano-dac-pcm512x-audio
• allo-piano-dac-plus-pcm512x-audio

[Miska]

5 hours ago, randytsuch said:

If you are referring to the USBridge Signature (latest and greatest version), allo has a read me file for setting up raspbian.

 

Yes, but my NAA images are my complete custom OS build. I'm not interested in Raspbian which is pretty antiquated.

 

I'm curious what is needed vs the most recent kernel releases.

 

[Miska]

On 12/20/2019 at 11:04 PM, randytsuch said:

Was hoping that the first item in the attached would be helpful.

Allo Sig has a different Ethernet chip, so they install the Asix driver.  

 

It talks about some USB WiFi stuff, but NAA image doesn't practically support any WiFi at all...

 

On 12/20/2019 at 11:04 PM, randytsuch said:

That's the extent of my knowledge.  You may have better luck asking in the Allo forum to catch their attention.

 

That is beyond what I'm capable of maintaining. If they want support, they can email me with exact details and I can take a look at it if it is feasible. But otherwise I'll support only things that are generally shipped with RasPi, especially given that I cannot test anything else because all I have is standard RasPi hardware.

 

[Miska]

4 hours ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

Is there another trick I can use to make HQP detect the Naim NDX2 over LAN?

 

It would need Naim to add support for HQPlayer NAA protocol...

 

Quote

Again, Audirvana finds the Naim player on the network, HQPlayer does not. IS this because HQPlayer can't or because of another reason?

 

Audirvana finds the UPnP Renderer functionality in Naim. However, that is unsuitable protocol for HQPlayer's use, instead HQPlayer uses it's own proprietary protocol. Just like Roon also does.

 

[Miska]

29 minutes ago, HardrockInMiniMac said:

4. This alone would require u to support their protocol like Damien does and certainly not them - how dare u? Bryston, McIntosh, Accuphase, all of them and potentially others have to make nice for HQPlayer?

 

Is it so damn difficult to implement UPnP support side by side with your own protocol?

 

It is not about how hard it is, but the UPnP is simply not fit for purposes of HQPlayer. (and by the way, Roon doesn't support UPnP either, for slightly similar reasons)

 

How do those companies dare not to support my NAA protocol?  Is it so damn difficult for them to include the offered software module? Some other companies don't seem to have as much trouble doing it.

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Jacky820 said:

I am working good with Windows 2019 and Pi4 NNA, hence I want to connect the HQPlayer and NNA with a single network cable rather with network switch with DHCP>

 

This kind of setup usually doesn't work due to multicast routing challenges, it is not recommended. NAA is intended for use in regular switched home network and there is no advantage in using direct connection, but instead some negative sides.

 

[Miska]

50 minutes ago, Jacky820 said:

Thank you Miska. Could you please let me know how can login to the console for pi4 NNA?

 

You can login as "root", no password.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Jacky820 said:

Thank you Miska, I tried with ssh and web port 80 but fail, could you please share with me which port I should use for the connection?

 

There is no ssh for security reasons (default passwords are bad), only console login. So you need to connect HDMI monitor and USB keyboard to login on console.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, volpone said:

Hi @Miska

i'm currently running NAA 3.6 (from 3.6.0-42_armhf.deb) on ALLO USBridge (Sparky SBC, not RPI)

Last NAA release available for Strech on your site is 3.6. Any chance you will release NAA 4.x for Strech (Buster is not suitable for ALLO Sparky SBC) ? 

Thank you. 

 

I'm trying to leave some old OS versions behind with the new major release, there are already so many builds that making a release is major effort. I don't have any ARM based boards anymore with Stretch, I have updated all to Buster.

 

Are you planning to use the input feature?

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Hi @Miska

 

Can you explain what this new input feature is?

 

And what are currently example possibilities with it?

 

And virtual devices?

 

 

It is the same input feature that was earlier available only locally, now it works also over network endpoint. The NAA protocol needed some extension to support stream flowing in opposite direction too.

 

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, acatala said:

Hi @Miska,

 

Does NAA run in DSD native mode (at least DSD256) with AK4499 based DACs (Topping D90) and/or ES9038Pro (Topping DX7 Pro)?

 

I have been reading some articles and review about both DACs and it seems nice piece of hardware.

 

 

Maybe it does... But since I don't have either one, I cannot confirm. It is likely covered by the existing auto-detection code.

 

[Miska]

For input (or output), something like this should work:

https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-io/

 

I have one of those boards somewhere waiting for this feature, but I have not tested it yet.

 

 

P.S. It doesn't have automatic rate detection/switching either, see here. So the RME ADI-2 Pro remains as the best input device for Linux-based things.

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, luchoh said:

However, try as I might, D90 is only recognized as PCM and can only play DoP. The "lowly" Khadas is totally fine at DSD256x48, while D90 chokes at this as it can't go above 768KHz to encapsulate DSD256x48.

 

2020/01/27 17:21:05  Network endpoint: D90: USB Audio (hw:CARD=D90,DEV=0)
+ 2020/01/27 17:21:05 Connect to 192.168.20.55:43210 [ipv4]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 44100/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 48000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 88200/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 96000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 176400/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 192000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 352800/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 384000/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 705600/32/2 [pcm]
  2020/01/27 17:21:05 Network format: 768000/32/2 [pcm]

 

I am using Odroid XU4Q as NAA (Debian GNU/Linux 9 \n \l, Linux DietPi 4.14.66+ #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Aug 23 05:59:33 UTC 2018 armv7l GNU/Linux). I have plenty of other SBCs (BBB, RPi3 and Odroid C2) and a couple of old (2011-2012) MacMinis that I could use if you think it might help. I can also install some Armbian with a newer kernel if it would make a difference.

 

Can you try my recently released NAA4 image on the RPi3? The kernel you have on Odroid is likely too old for the purpose... Or even better if you have some small spare PC to try the x64 image instead as RPi3 may have some playback issues due to the hardware limitations. Although it should be fine for checking the driver status.

 

3 hours ago, luchoh said:

Finally, sorry if this is off-topic: are you going to release an embedded version of HQP to match NAA4?

 

Sure! I'm working on it.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, luchoh said:

I booted one of the MacMinis with your x86 appliance and I have partial success.

Now the 44.1 rates work with DSD and 48 - don't - white noise. I did check 48k DSD option - this is how I've been using the other DACs previously.

 

This is what I'm getting, suggesting it should work at DSD256x48:

 

That is quite usual problem, the DAC then just doesn't support DSD at multiples of 48k...

 

DAC is just advertising all rates because it supports PCM at those 48k multiples. So you need to uncheck the 48k DSD so that HQPlayer filters those rates out.

 

[Miska]

35 minutes ago, luchoh said:

 

@Miska one last question: a workaround for this issue is to resample outside of HQPlayer (in my case - Roon).

Should I upsample all 48x rates to 705.6KHz and then feed it to HQPlayer or selectively for each rate?

 

Why would you resample outside of HQPlayer instead of using HQPlayer for the purpose it is designed for?

[Miska]

33 minutes ago, acatala said:

From the log output from Luchoh, it seems that DSD512 is supported too. At least with the x64 image that is the one it should run in my UpBoard device. That's good news.

 

I mean, UpBoard with NAA x64 image (3.x or 4.x) + Topping D90 (with AK4499). Right?

 

Yes, it should work...

[Miska]

3 hours ago, Jacky820 said:

Dear Miska,

 

May I know which approach is best SQ in HQPlayer with NNA? Thanks for the NNA 4.0 for Pi4!

 

 

 

The lower, blue one... That is a network. The upper one is not and has tons of problems.

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Jacky820 said:

Thanks for your quick response 😘

will go ahead for the LT3045  with battery module for su1 and 5ports 5V network switch!

 

 

Remember to check the switch specs that it supports at least 802.3x, 802.1p and preferably 802.3az. And is in a metal case - no plastic affairs.

 

And no shielded Ethernet cables!

 

[Miska]

13 hours ago, cat6man said:

can we get an NAA 4.0 image build for cubox, which in the past has covered both Rendu and TotalDAC streamers?

 

I can look into it, it needs some extra kernel work since the kernel version is lagging behind.

 

[Miska]

21 minutes ago, robi20064 said:

With the NAA 4.0.1 Cubox+rendu image can you simple load NAA on a UltraRemdu instead of the SonicOrbiter OS (flashing NAA to a new microsd etc)? If that's the case, what are the advantages of doing so? Sonore started delivering cards with SonicOrbiter 2.8 which supports NAA 4.0 as well (after a bit of updating hassle).

 

Yes, maybe it works, I have only microRendu around here. If you have a spare microSD card you can try out, 4 GB card is enough (the image itself is much smaller).

 

People have been asking for this, so I just thought I could as well build one again. It is practically same as you can get for x64 and RasPi3/4 as well.

 

[Miska]

40 minutes ago, semente said:

Does this new naa-401-cuboxi-urendu image work with HQPlayerDesktop 3.25?

 

It should work the same. I have not done much testing with that combination, but it should work.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, bobflood said:

The ip does show up as active in an ip scan as it is manually bound to the MAC address on the router but when I enter the ip to Chrome it times out.

 

There is nothing on the OS that would answer to Chrome. It only has the NAA software module and nothing else besides the OS itself. So only way to access it is through HQPlayer.

 

1 hour ago, bobflood said:

This card was from an older version of SonicOrbiter. It is an 8 G card. It had some partitions. I formatted the card and put the NAA on the largest partition. Do I need to remove the partitions and what is the correct formatting protocol to use?

 

OK, this is likely the problem. The image is full storage image with partitions and everything, so it must be written to the raw card for example with Etcher or similar tool. It doesn't matter if the card is formatted or not, the image will overwrite the contents.

 

If the image is written to a partition, it won't work because the needed boot information is outside of the partitions in a special area.

 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, Outlaw said:

I Miska.Get these unknown selector in NAA screen.Any idea what this is.Also does naa have to be on a ssd or spinning harddrive good enough on windows 10 ?

 

That looks like Amanero ASIO driver which is quite funny. For example it claims to have 16 channels and also claims to support any imaginable samplerate even if hardware doesn't. But it should work, just ignore bogus things.

 

It doesn't matter where NAA is located. The executable is tiny...

 

[Miska]

8 hours ago, John K said:

Hqplayer server (NUC8I7HVK) - network switch (HP 1810-8G) - Sotm SMS-200Ultra Neo (NAA enabled) - USB - DAC

(Roon server is attached to the same swtich on separate computer (Sonictrasporter I5) using Hqplayer with roon integration

 

In these managed switches, make sure 802.3x Flow Control is enabled in the switch settings!

 

Usually small devices like Rendu or sMS-200 cannot handle full gigabit speed and without flow control they end up having hardware buffers overflow and as result massive packet loss. Which triggers equally massive re-send of data, which just makes the situation worse. This causes intermittent network stalls on the link.

 

It is also recommended to enable Green Ethernet / Energy Efficient (802.3az) Ethernet features such as cable length detection and link idle. This doesn't affect functionality itself, but reduces amount of emitted noise because cables in this use are usually shorter than 100m so there's no point in blasting at full transmit power designed for 100m cable on a much shorter cable. These however require some support also from those attached devices, I have not checked if EEE becomes fully enabled on those.