My new CAPS V2+ build; best digital I've heard

[ItemAudio]

Ted, great thread. So glad you're running it.

 

I'm looking for a Paul Hynes Linear Power Supply for my future Caps 3.0 build and it would be great if the same LPS could power (maybe with a different umbilical, if needed), my 2010 Mac Mini that's already had the internal PS removed.

 

I just noticed on Audiocircle

 

Group buy for Mac Mini power supply

 

that Paul Hynes is running until Nov 30 a "Group Buy for Mac Mini power supply" offer with a special discount for audiocircle readers.

 

Paul says in his Sept 21 entry that

 

"Several customers have asked if the SR5 (linear power supply) can be used with other items of equipment besides the Mac Mini.

 

In fact it can be set up for the following range of output voltage and continuous output current specifications :

 

3v3 @ 10 amps

5v @ 9 amps

6v @ 8.5 amps

9v @ 7.5 amps

12v @ 6.5 amps

15v @ 5 amps

18v5 @ 4.5 amps

21v @ 4 amps

24v @ 3.5 amps

27v @ 3 amps

30v @ 3 amps

 

Perfect – you need a stack of three SR5s, then: dialled to 12/5/3.3V – simples!

[Mike Gillespie]

Perfect – you need a stack of three SR5s, then: dialled to 12/5/3.3V – simples!

 

Item audio:

 

For those less computer savvy, how would you connect the 3 different LPS units from Paul (one at 12v, 2nd at 5v, 3rd at 3.3v) to the Caps server. I'm used to connecting a single Bolder LPS via Bolder custom umbilical to the modded Mac Mini, which Bolder outfitted with a simple 2.5 mm int diameter pin connector (not the stock 2010 Mac Mini figure-of-8 type connector -- I don't know the exact name for it).

 

Thanks.

 

Mike

[Mike Gillespie]

If I get from Jesus at Sonore "the ac-charged intelligent battery option that simply plugs directly into the SOtM USB card and provides off the grid 5V power", I wouldn't need the Hynes SR5 for the 5 volts, right?

 

What would the 3.3 V Hynes be powering?

 

What would the 12v Hynes be powering?

 

Thanks.

 

Mike

[ItemAudio]

If I get from Jesus at Sonore "the ac-charged intelligent battery option that simply plugs directly into the SOtM USB card and provides off the grid 5V power", I wouldn't need the Hynes SR5 for the 5 volts, right?

 

What would the 3.3 V Hynes be powering?

 

What would the 12v Hynes be powering?

 

Thanks.

 

Mike

 

To get at the 12/5/3.3V rails it's mandatory to use a board with a three-rail ATX input - our current recipe recommends the Intel DH61DL which is 'plug-and-play' with a three-rail PSU.

 

But any single-rail mobo (ie, with a single 12V or 19V input) locks you irreversibly into significantly more on-board switching noise. A 'conventional' ATX-powered board enables you to bypass it. Maybe the CAPS3.0 will be a step forward in this regard . . .

[iago]

To get at the 12/5/3.3V rails it's mandatory to use a board with a three-rail ATX input - our current recipe recommends the Intel DH61DL which is 'plug-and-play' with a three-rail PSU.

 

The board's specification mentions a fourth supply voltage (-12V), how shall this be supplied, or is it obsolete nowadays? And would it be advantageous to supply the CPU from it's own rail, it should generate the largest amount of digital noise?

 

Source: DH61DL Technical Product Specification

[ejn1]

Barrows,

I use the massive Hynes SR7-18V5 (dialed to 12V) to power the mobo, so assumed this clean power was getting to the SOtM card internally...but guess not. So you are separately powering the SotM PCI card? And it helps, regardless of whether your DAC uses that 5V? Wild. Now, as stated above, I'm wondering if I'm over-invested in the mobo power (given that I can substitute a smaller Hynes).

 

Ted, I asked Paul Hynes this exact question and his steer was to start by getting clean power to the mobo. He gave a dozen highly technical reasons why which I can't repeat even if I tried but I trusted his steer and ordered the SR5 single rail to power the mobo.

[jtwrace]

Maybe you can post his email response giving the reason(s)?

[ejn1]

Maybe you can post his email response giving the reason(s)?

 

Hi, it was from a phone conversation.... I asked the question "If I don't have the budget for two large PH power supplies (or the SR7 with two rails) nor want to take up the space, shouldn't I just get the PS for the SOtM USB card versus the mobo and his strong steer was to supply the mobo with clean power as the most important starting point. He never said to never get another PS down the road but his clear steer was the first and primary starting point should be the mobo. He gave a lengthy technical reason why but sorry, I'm not qualified to give it justice in trying to repeat it. The guy clearly knows his stuff so I just took his advice.

[ItemAudio]

I'm sure Paul gave you chapter and verse on this: he knows what he's talking about. But in principle, it's always best practice not to introduce the primary 'contaminant' in the first place, rather than seeking ways to mitigate it once it's become a problem. In the case of poor-quality AC-DC conversion, and also primary DC-DC conversion, that 'problem' propagates immediately and pervasively throughout the system. You have to tackle it first, before looking to clean up the board or card output. Anything less is a sticking plaster for a broken leg!

[ItemAudio]

The board's specification mentions a fourth supply voltage (-12V), how shall this be supplied, or is it obsolete nowadays? And would it be advantageous to supply the CPU from it's own rail, it should generate the largest amount of digital noise?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2876[/ATTACH]

Source: DH61DL Technical Product Specification

 

It's standard ATX spec, but actually we can get by without it fine. The Intel DH61DL board has a separate 4-pin ATX for the processor that draws no more than a few hundred millamps. You could have a separate rail just for the CPU, but it clocks up the expense: 'star-earthing' a line back to the main 12V rail seems to work just fine. Before you know it, you'll have us doing a Five-Rail PSU . . . Hmmm.

[ItemAudio]

To get at the 12/5/3.3V rails it's mandatory to use a board with a three-rail ATX input - our current recipe recommends the Intel DH61DL which is 'plug-and-play' with a three-rail PSU.

 

But any single-rail mobo (ie, with a single 12V or 19V input) locks you irreversibly into significantly more on-board switching noise. A 'conventional' ATX-powered board enables you to bypass it. Maybe the CAPS3.0 will be a step forward in this regard . . .

 

Yay! You finally joined the Power Revolution, Chris! Several of the CAPS3.0 variants now have optional PSU upgrades: ATX or single rail? Looking forward to seeing more specs on your new recipes . . .

[sebassie]

After installing Windows 8 pro 64 bit all is fine except that the proper video driver is missing. I'm using the standard microsoft driver. Can anybody please tell me where to find the proper 64 bit driver for the Intel2800mt.

Thanks

[ted_b]

After installing Windows 8 pro 64 bit all is fine except that the proper video driver is missing. I'm using the standard microsoft driver. Can anybody please tell me where to find the proper 64 bit driver for the Intel2800mt.

Thanks

 

I don't think there is one. My design is headless.

[sebassie]

I don't think there is one. My design is headless.

Thanks Ted for your quick reply. As I see nobody complaining about the video part I thought it was my fault. Eventually I will use the caps2+ headless too, but for setting up everything a monitor is handy. Right now the video is awful.

[ted_b]

I use an HDMI monitor for Windows install (looked fine), then a VNC for any setup after that.

[sebassie]

I use an HDMI monitor for Windows install (looked fine), then a VNC for any setup after that.

Had not thought of that. Thanks Ted!

[iago]

It's standard ATX spec, but actually we can get by without it fine. The Intel DH61DL board has a separate 4-pin ATX for the processor that draws no more than a few hundred millamps. You could have a separate rail just for the CPU, but it clocks up the expense: 'star-earthing' a line back to the main 12V rail seems to work just fine. Before you know it, you'll have us doing a Five-Rail PSU . . . Hmmm.

 

It seems that the -12V rail is mainly used for legacy I/O components, so the rest of the board should work ;-) Maybe modifying an existing ATX PSU might be an option. I would prefer something that could be used plug-and-play. The lab PSU currently sitting in my living room cannot become a permanent solution ...

[rickd]

Doesn't the Hynes replace the brick on a CAPS server which is 12V? The pico or nano power supplies (up to 150W) in the steacom cases (as an example) convert the incoming 12V to other voltages required for the motherboard. eg Streacom FC10 Full Aluminium Fanless Chassis

 

or am I missing something?

 

Edit also see : 150W nanoPSU and AC/DC adapter block

[ejn1]

Doesn't the Hynes replace the brick on a CAPS server which is 12V? The pico or nano power supplies (up to 150W) in the steacom cases (as an example) convert the incoming 12V to other voltages required for the motherboard. eg Streacom FC10 Full Aluminium Fanless Chassis

 

or am I missing something?

 

For my build (same mobo as Ted's) it is going to go straight into the motherboard DC input which can take up to 19v 8a I believe. The mobo can then convert via a sata power to 12v molex or sata for hard drives etc. I'm installing in a Streacom F8 EVO but the case shouldnt be a factor, rather its the motherboard and whether it requires atx power or a direct DC input like the Intel DN2800mt has...

[rickd]

To get at the 12/5/3.3V rails it's mandatory to use a board with a three-rail ATX input - our current recipe recommends the Intel DH61DL which is 'plug-and-play' with a three-rail PSU.

 

So how do you access the 3 ATX rails with this board? What is required to achieve that a custom loom ?

 

I would love to build a higher end machine with three Hynes supplies for audio and htpc video

 

Thanks

[ItemAudio]

So how do you access the 3 ATX rails with this board? What is required to achieve that a custom loom ?

 

I would love to build a higher end machine with three Hynes supplies for audio and htpc video

 

Thanks

 

An ATX plug has 20 or 24 cables. You'll see from the pinout here: ATX power supply connector pinout and wiring @ pinouts.ru . . . that it's quite feasible to tie together the 3.3V, 5V and 12V rails and attach them to separate supplies.

 

We've been a voice in the wilderness advocating this approach for five or six years now, but there's absolutely no doubt that it is the Gold Standard for a primary computer PSU. It literally takes the benefit of a single linear PSU into a single-rail board and multiplies it by three. You're also then well setup to tap the 5V and 12V rails directly from source to power the SOtM or Adnaco - or a PCIe SPDIF card. Anything else is fundamentally broken.

 

A three-rail linear supply need not be expensive, either: about the same price as a single Paul Hynes PSU.

[rdsu]

Can you try to see if we can watch 1080p with Windows 8 x64 drivers?

 

I want to get the best for audio, and also use it with XBMC for video, but if I can't use x64 for video...

 

Thanks

[ted_b]

RDSU,

First off, welcome to CA.

 

My CAPS V2+ design is specifically intended for unaltered non-oversampled, non-room corrected audio, period. Large files (24/192 and DSD) yes! Large power handling, no! The Intel mobo (same as used in Chris's new CAPS V3 Topanga low cost server) is lightweight power and minimalist, and I doubt it will do audio DSP, let alone 1080P video. This machine is not intended to do any video. Feel free to discuss it in general, but for this thread's main topic (my server design) it is not a good fit.

[rdsu]

Ok. Thanks anyway for your thread ... ;-)

[ItemAudio]

RDSU,

First off, welcome to CA.

 

My CAPS V2+ design is specifically intended for unaltered non-oversampled, non-room corrected audio, period. Large files (24/192 and DSD) yes! Large power handling, no! The Intel mobo (same as used in Chris's new CAPS V3 Topanga low cost server) is lightweight power and minimalist, and I doubt it will do audio DSP, let alone 1080P video. This machine is not intended to do any video. Feel free to discuss it in general, but for this thread's main topic (my server design) it is not a good fit.

 

It's a bit of myth - based on a misunderstanding of Intel's published 'TDP' figures - that the Atom is meaningfully more energy-efficient than other processors.

 

We spent quite a lot of time in the last year measuring real-world draw on a number of different boards, and found that N2600-, N2800-, and N2550-based boards draw almost identical current in-situ in typical audio usage. Emboldened by these findings to widen the search to more powerful processors, we discovered that the sweet spot for high-resource/low-power no longer lies with Atom at all in 2012, but with the latest 500-Series Celerons.

 

The TDP figures of the Cedar Trail designs look appetising (3.5W, 6.5W, 10W) versus the forbidding 35W and 65W figures of the Celerons, but CMP were right all along - and here's the newsflash - with very little tweaking, the real-world draw of the more powerful - and much more efficient - 500-Series is practically identical. That means there's no need at all to put up with the OOE and bus limitations of Atom.

 

TDP is simply a guide to the theoretical cooling power required to keep the CPU at nominal temperatures. But, again, when you look into it, that's also a crock: the reality is that you buy Atom boards with integrated heatsinks . . . the ones we used to favour did not have fans, for obvious reasons. Many therefore run at 50-65° - well within tolerances, but still pretty hot. Moving to a socketed board, you don't have to put up with a low-rent heatsink: you can run a much better processor at the same current much cooler: 35-45°. And it turns out that heat is as big an enemy of 'low-noise' operation as HF grunge. Cool is good. Core Audio have been doing great work in this area recently. As we've said before, cryo-treatment helps even further.

 

The bottom line is that your 'CAPS V2+' doesn't have to be disabled with regard to digital EQ, software crossover, room correct, etc. You can do it all one machine. And it will draw 12-15W at the wall just like an Atom ITX board. Welcome to Q3 2012!