My new CAPS V2+ build; best digital I've heard

[dkAudio]

Thank's so much for this thread ted_b. My Laptop recently crapped out which has forced me to decide on a dedicated digital server and this setup seems perfect for me.

 

Where can I learn more about linear power supplies?

[ted_b]

Thank's so much for this thread ted_b. My Laptop recently crapped out which has forced me to decide on a dedicated digital server and this setup seems perfect for me.

 

Where can I learn more about linear power supplies?

 

Although not educational, this list is a pretty good start. Any one of their websites will give you some background.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/revised-list-linear-power-supplies-alix-13560/

[4est]

First off, thanks for posting this Ted! I am seriously considering doing one of these, your endorsement weighs heavily with me.

 

I have tried a PK90, and have been running a Mac mini headless for a long time using screen sharing. When mentioning my interest in CAPS v2+ to a knowledgeable friend, he reminded me that although I do not have a monitor attached to my mini, it is still processing all of the video. I was wondering if anyone knew the veracity of that statement. More importantly, when one is running JRMC and their Jremote, how is the GUI screen created- is it still processed on board the computer. As I was told, using a video card to process the video relieves the CPU and system memory from having to do so whereby possibly being beneficial even though it still creates extra noise and such, and yet the CAPSs do not use one.

 

I am also curious as to how this applies to MPD.

[barrows]

4est:

 

I know nothing of CAPS and jRiver… but my understanding with MPD is that any image processing, as required by the GUI is done by the client itself, and not by the server. That is, the client (iPad, iPod, etc) actually has all the software on board for image processing, and just tells the server what to do. So MPD is not processing any video. I am sure Jesus could answer this question more completely for MPD.

[ringenesherre]

4est:

I know nothing of CAPS and jRiver… but my understanding with MPD is that any image processing, as required by the GUI is done by the client itself, and not by the server. That is, the client (iPad, iPod, etc) actually has all the software on board for image processing, and just tells the server what to do. So MPD is not processing any video. I am sure Jesus could answer this question more completely for MPD.

 

You are right about MPD. The protocol is completely based on exchanging unicode text, e.g. "play 1234" is sent from the client to the server to play the song with the database id "1234". There is commands for listing songs, finding them based on meta data, adding to playlists, playing, stoping, ...

 

At no point of time is there any graphics processing going on with respect to MPD - and hopefully there is not even any graphical user interface installed on the linux server.

 

Regarding the Mac mini, the state of the GUI is of course updated, i.e., there is a lot of processing, even when no monitor is attached and no remote client is viewing the user interface.

 

For JRMC running on Windows, this is clearly the same, although in the future it will be possible to create real headless servers (cf. It's Official: The Windows Server GUI Is (Slowly) On the Way Out -- Redmondmag.com). That said, it will probably take some time for headless music servers to appear on Windows ;-)

 

Cheers,

Peter

[ted_b]

 

For JRMC running on Windows, this is clearly the same, although in the future it will be possible to create real headless servers (cf. It's Official: The Windows Server GUI Is (Slowly) On the Way Out -- Redmondmag.com). That said, it will probably take some time for headless music servers to appear on Windows ;-)

 

Cheers,

Peter

Peter, thanks for your obviously knowledgeable response. But now I'm confused. What is the advantage, or even the purpose, of running jriver as a media server only...if, as you say, the video drivers on my CAPS Intel motherboard are tirelessly at work anyway?? I also assumed a VNC like splash top, although used for maintenance activities only and not running during music playback, is not a video hog per se, just a fairly noisy app that goes away when not in use. Please advise

[4est]

You are right about MPD. The protocol is completely based on exchanging unicode text, e.g. "play 1234" is sent from the client to the server to play the song with the database id "1234". There is commands for listing songs, finding them based on meta data, adding to playlists, playing, stoping, ...

 

At no point of time is there any graphics processing going on with respect to MPD - and hopefully there is not even any graphical user interface installed on the linux server.

 

Regarding the Mac mini, the state of the GUI is of course updated, i.e., there is a lot of processing, even when no monitor is attached and no remote client is viewing the user interface.

 

For JRMC running on Windows, this is clearly the same, although in the future it will be possible to create real headless servers (cf. It's Official: The Windows Server GUI Is (Slowly) On the Way Out -- Redmondmag.com). That said, it will probably take some time for headless music servers to appear on Windows ;-)

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Thank you Peter,

 

So it is correct then. I didn't think MPD would have it, but wanted to check for sure. Would it then be safe to assume that the presence of a video card means that card would then be doing the processing instead of the onboard chip processing of the mobo? I am considering building Ted's V2+ or something similar based on Win 7/8, but maybe I should consider a mobo that will allow a video card as my device is not linux compatible.

[ted_b]

4est,

I wouldn't lose sleep. If I'm hearing the video noise, it sounds like gorgeous music, coming from a black background (I guess that black is 1080p).

[4est]

4est,

I wouldn't lose sleep. If I'm hearing the video noise, it sounds like gorgeous music, coming from a black background (I guess that black is 1080p).

 

I believe it Ted...

 

I have been really enjoying my new i5 Windows box running JRMC/Fidelizer that I built for a CAD/CAM station. I am debating on building one of yours or something more like this one as a music server to replace my mini. I am sure that I can find a board very similar that would accept a video card. It would make for a nice all around HTPC as well as music server.

[barrows]

4est,

I wouldn't lose sleep. If I'm hearing the video noise, it sounds like gorgeous music, coming from a black background (I guess that black is 1080p).

 

Yeah Ted, you are probably hearing wonderful euphonics from all the RF the video processing is injecting into your entire system.... heheheheheheeee!

[spdif-usb]

That said, it will probably take some time for headless music servers to appear on Windows ;-)

Does it actually even matter?

[barrows]

Does it actually even matter?

 

Nothing matters, hahahaha…

[ted_b]

Yeah Ted, you are probably hearing wonderful euphonics from all the RF the video processing is injecting into your entire system.... heheheheheheeee!

 

I disagree. I am not convinced there is much video processing happening at all during music listening. Not even VNC. I feel like we are worrying over much ado about nothing, but I may be all wrong...dunno.

[barrows]

I disagree. I am not convinced there is much video processing happening at all during music listening. Not even VNC. I feel like we are worrying over much ado about nothing, but I may be all wrong...dunno.

 

Hey Ted, that post was just a joke... I would not question your listening impressions, unless I was present to hear the same things, in your system.

 

That said, it would be interesting to know the real answers to some of these questions. Until someone makes some real RF measurements (not an easy thing to do) of MoBos, and different computer/server setups, and then tries to correlate those measurements with RF getting into the DAC/amps, and listening impressions, we are all at the mercy of our listening sessions.

And, I suspect, until someone who really knows what they are doing makes a dedicated audiophile MoBo specifically engineered for low noise, we are not going to know how good computer audio can be.

I made an interesting discovery the other day: I was making "measurements" of AC line noise under different system conditions. Monitoring the line noise during boot up of my server was really, really scary. It did not mkae much difference which power supply I used (linear with shunt for SOtM board, or very high quality SMPS with shunt for SOtM board), but the noise put back onto the AC line from the server was huge. Not only that, the noise was so high in level, that when I powered my server supply from a dedicated AC regenerator, the noise still got back out through the input side of the AC regenerator and out into the other components. No power conditioner is going to be able to stop this noise from getting into the rest of the system.

[1audio]

I suggest thst the problem is radiated noise. How are you measuring the noise? Its possible that the device is picking up radiated noise and can be verified by shorting its sensing input.

 

Chasing noise in these systems is difficult under ideal conditions.

[barrows]

I suggest thst the problem is radiated noise. How are you measuring the noise? Its possible that the device is picking up radiated noise and can be verified by shorting its sensing input.

 

Chasing noise in these systems is difficult under ideal conditions.

 

Hi Demian:

 

I put measuring in quotes because my method is not very scientific! I have an old avalanche transciever, with a little earpiece. I cannot even remember the two frequencies it receives at, I think one is 457 kHz. In any case, holding it up to things will pick up RF noise. As an example, hold it up to light dimmer and turn the dimmer low-the results are enough to scare one into removing all dimmers.

I use it to find noise sources. But the results of holding it up to AC cabling was really scary if I listened while my server booted up: things are nice and quiet, with smooth low level white noise sound when the server is "off" but the power supplies are "on", then boot up the server and listen while it is happening, and the noise radiating from the AC cabling is severe... many magnitudes louder than anything else in my system (DAC, amp). What seems worse, is that this noise is present at nearly the same amplitude when "listening" for it on the AC cables going into the amp and DAC as the server boots up. As mentioned, even "isolating" heheheh, the server's power supply through an AC regenerator (PS Audio P-300, true AC-DC-AC regeneration) amde almost no difference in "level" of the noise on the AC cables.

Now I am not suggesting that these primitive observations are necessarily a "problem", but they do give one cause for concern, especially considering the level of the noise seems to be so much higher than that produced by anything other components to which I have "listened"

BTW: my system still sounds great, and I do not have audible noise from the speakers until my ear is within mere inches of the tweeter (late at night, rural area with low/no background noise when there is no wind outside, small house, appliances, furnace, etc all off). But it is hard to imagine that this noise on the AC cables is totally benign to sound quality.

I am beginning to think running the server from a battery supply is the only option....

[Quest]

Paul,

I run it with a gigabit ethernet NAS file server (Synology DS410). I have yet to compare SSD music (as a theoretical check; would not store my music there) and/or Oyen Digital USB music (local external) but tjhub and others have tried and said there is no difference. I will do my own a/b however. Can't freaking imagine better sound. I am hearing imaging that has taken on perfect phase and depth cues; tonality and organic texturing out the yin-yang, and microdetails down to a noise floor that is closing in on a 0db or less (vacuum?? )!! And my previous examples weren't chopped liver!!!

 

Just FYI, I just did a comparison of files on my DS1812+, and internal hdd, and internal hdd won by quite a large margin.. 4 visitors were in the room who heard the AB via blind test, picked the internal hdd file quite easily.

 

I haven't yet tried tweaking the DS1812+ with better power cord, better router, better LAN cable, to see if that makes a difference..

[ted_b]

Just FYI, I just did a comparison of files on my DS1812+, and internal hdd, and internal hdd won by quite a large margin.. 4 visitors were in the room who heard the AB via blind test, picked the internal hdd file quite easily.

 

I haven't yet tried tweaking the DS1812+ with better power cord, better router, better LAN cable, to see if that makes a difference..

 

This is with my CAPS build? As I said...I also could always detect differences UNTIL I went CAPS V2+.

[Quest]

This is with my CAPS build? As I said...I also could always detect differences UNTIL I went CAPS V2+.

 

No, sorry didn't see such a post in this thread.

But then again, I didn't like the SOTM products in my system though they do provide a more consistent performance.. so, maybe we are looking for different things.

[jtwrace]

No, but then again, I didn't like the SOTM products in my system.. so, maybe we are looking for different things.

 

Why do you think that's the case? Which products specifically?

[Quest]

Why do you think that's the case? Which products specifically?

 

This is just IMO only.

 

Basically, filtering gives some benefits but also takes away some SQ. It's like how I feel unshielded cables can sound better than shielded, but only if you can avoid coming close to any other cable. If you can't, shielded is better. So you have to assess if it is necessary in your system.

 

The SATA filter works very positively for some HDD like WD Green, but I felt it deteriorates the sound of enterprise HDDs which sound better by default and probably have less power fluctuations. One reason could be that while the power line is still improved, the data line is just a pass-through - and the disadvantages of adding a connector could be more than the advantage of the power line in some cases.

 

The USB card sounds similar to other usb power products I tried.. but in the end I preferred direct to motherboard. One consistent improvement is bass control and slightly quieter background, but there were some cons to me that I could not accept - primarily on texture of the music. Putting a linear psu/battery helps though, so for some it may be a true positive.

 

Using the USB card does make the performance of PCs more consistent, which is good if you don't like too much change. It's an easy solution, which can sound quite decent.

 

I'm still not closed on this topic but still looking for something even better.

[4est]

This is just IMO only.

 

Basically, filtering gives some benefits but also takes away some SQ. It's like how I feel unshielded cables can sound better than shielded, but only if you can avoid coming close to any other cable. If you can't, shielded is better. So you have to assess if it is necessary in your system.

 

The SATA filter works very positively for some HDD like WD Green, but I felt it deteriorates the sound of enterprise HDDs which sound better by default and probably have less power fluctuations. One reason could be that while the power line is still improved, the data line is just a pass-through - and the disadvantages of adding a connector could be more than the advantage of the power line in some cases.

 

The USB card sounds similar to other usb power products I tried.. but in the end I preferred direct to motherboard. One consistent improvement is bass control and slightly quieter background, but there were some cons to me that I could not accept - primarily on texture of the music. Putting a linear psu/battery helps though, so for some it may be a true positive.

 

Using the USB card does make the performance of PCs more consistent, which is good if you don't like too much change. It's an easy solution, which can sound quite decent.

 

I'm still not closed on this topic but still looking for something even better.

 

Quest:

You are not the first to say something akin to that. Have you tried using a separate USB3 card for the audio only? On the XXHighend forum there is talk of doing it for sonics with positive results. IIRC, it is using an NEC chip and not all cards worked properly or something, but still.

[Quest]

Quest:

You are not the first to say something akin to that. Have you tried using a separate USB3 card for the audio only? On the XXHighend forum there is talk of doing it for sonics with positive results. IIRC, it is using an NEC chip and not all cards worked properly or something, but still.

 

Well, I was intending to get Adnaco to test but not sure if it's going to be positive given my prior experiences. Starting to own too many products that I do not own, and are hard to resell.

 

The current setup only runs 1 USB to the usb/spdif converter, when playing audio.

 

Rather than using it for audio, I noticed that using a separate USB card or better quality usb hub makes a difference for other peripherals (I use a vaunix for my keyboard/mouse), and that my setup was so sensitive, that there are discernible differences when any cable from the PC touches a material - even when the power cord to the usb hub was touching something. This was when I decided to run headless and disconnect everything else.

 

While wifi gives abit of deterioration to the sound, it still sounds better than with more cables connected to the PC, so many of you guys are on the right track.

[Quest]

Edit to above: It's "starting to own too many products that I do not use..."

[nile49]

Hi Ted,

 

Your build is of high interest to me. I'm hoping to build an ethernet server for my PS Audio Network Bridge. I'm thinking that I can do your build but forgo the USB card making for a cheap solution. My question is, are there any suitable mobo options that incorporate USB 3.0 yet? Or is it just a matter of waiting for this to be implemented in a subsequent version? Thanks, and any input or suggestions will be highly appreciated as I am just starting to dive into this project and am quite frankly in a little deep at this moment. I have been waiting been waiting for PS Audio's "Silent Server" for too long now and its time to take matters into my own hands! Should be a fun learning experience.

 

Warren