HDTV Recommendations for an audiophile?

[trionfare]

I'm in the market for a new HDTV, but I'd appreciate some feedback on features/attributes/suggested models given that i will eventually purchase a CAPS 2.0/3.0 (when it is ready). i couldn't find any threads discussing this, but i'm sure I'm not the only one doing this research. I post to AVS forums, but would really appreciate the audiophile perspective.

 

Requirements: I have a 2.1 Sound set-up with the W4S Dac-2 going straight to a 2 channel amp. PC wise i use JRiver in theater mode for parties, and also use a slingbox to view streamed SD streams hence i cannot use a headless set-up. I also have to have the video and audio set-ups in the same system due to space. I am looking for a 50 inch plus TV and am open to plasma or LCD.

 

 

Questions:

 

1.HDMI/VGA for PC to TV: Unless a CAPS 3.0, has a HDMI output it looks like i'll need to have a VGA output to connect the PC to the TV. What i found when i used a Panasonic plasma VT30 is that I could use HDMI for the video, but if I also inserted the USB cable the audio got routed that way. Are there any cons to doing this? It just feels like i could be degrading the sound some how.

 

2. What is your preferred connection for PC to a HDTV and why?

 

3. I watch feeds from the PC on the TV, but have found quality varies greatly from model to model. The best quality i found so far was the panasonic VT30 plasma but that omits the VGA input needed for a CAPS 2.0 PC. Which TV models are you using and why?

 

4. Any other recommendations given my needs above?

[Paul R]

The only feasible connection for HDTV is HDMI, because a lot of the video traffic going to the television is copy protected and HDMI is the only interface that provides the key to that. In other words, you just won't be able to view a lot of content, including most of Netflix, iTunes, and more without an DMI connection to the Television.

 

If you plan to continue with a 2.1 rig, then something like the NAD 390DD or M51 DAC looks to be a really interesting choice, it has pass-throgh HDMI.

 

Otherwise, what you might consider is purchasing a modest AVR and using it as a Preamp or HT signal source.

 

Clumsy, but effective.

 

-Paul

 

 

I'm in the market for a new HDTV, but I'd appreciate some feedback on features/attributes/suggested models given that i will eventually purchase a CAPS 2.0/3.0 (when it is ready). i couldn't find any threads discussing this, but i'm sure I'm not the only one doing this research. I post to AVS forums, but would really appreciate the audiophile perspective.

 

Requirements: I have a 2.1 Sound set-up with the W4S Dac-2 going straight to a 2 channel amp. PC wise i use JRiver in theater mode for parties, and also use a slingbox to view streamed SD streams hence i cannot use a headless set-up. I also have to have the video and audio set-ups in the same system due to space. I am looking for a 50 inch plus TV and am open to plasma or LCD.

 

 

Questions:

 

1.HDMI/VGA for PC to TV: Unless a CAPS 3.0, has a HDMI output it looks like i'll need to have a VGA output to connect the PC to the TV. What i found when i used a Panasonic plasma VT30 is that I could use HDMI for the video, but if I also inserted the USB cable the audio got routed that way. Are there any cons to doing this? It just feels like i could be degrading the sound some how.

 

2. What is your preferred connection for PC to a HDTV and why?

 

3. I watch feeds from the PC on the TV, but have found quality varies greatly from model to model. The best quality i found so far was the panasonic VT30 plasma but that omits the VGA input needed for a CAPS 2.0 PC. Which TV models are you using and why?

 

4. Any other recommendations given my needs above?

[souptin]

I'm repeating myself from other threads, but here's a couple of things I've discovered that may save someone else some hassle:

 

1. As stated above, the HDMI is probably the best connection between computer and tv because of copy protection issues. However, it seems that very few tvs allow an audio signal to pass through untouched to the tv's audio output - certainly not a surround sound, but I have also found a 2 channel signal was resampled to lower resolution. So either a direct output from, for example, the pc's usb to a dac, or use of a receiver gets the souptin recommendation. I also suspect going straight to dac from the pc is probably cleaner than routing the signal through the tv internals even if it does appear to pass through properly.

 

2. If you compare (at least with Samsung tvs) the VGA input on the tv to a DVI / HDMI input, you may find that the VGA looks much better when displaying the computer desktop (much clearer text, for example). There may be various reasons for this, but one very simple fix to try on the HDMI / DVI connection is to turn the sharpness on the tv down to the lowest setting - makes a huge difference ime.

[wgscott]

I don't know how generalizable it is, but with my AppleTV2 and my mac mini, I can put sound out via optical (or usb, in the case of the mini) while simultaneously sending video out via HDMI.

[Trappistmonk]

Questions:

 

1.HDMI/VGA for PC to TV: Unless a CAPS 3.0, has a HDMI output it looks like i'll need to have a VGA output to connect the PC to the TV. What i found when i used a Panasonic plasma VT30 is that I could use HDMI for the video, but if I also inserted the USB cable the audio got routed that way. Are there any cons to doing this? It just feels like i could be degrading the sound some how.

 

HDMI would be the way to go. I never experienced the better image quality through VGA as souptin pointed out, but I will check this out when I have some time. Anyway, the DVI to HDMI streaming I do from my laptop is pretty good. Just like with audio, much depends on your source files for video

 

2. What is your preferred connection for PC to a HDTV and why?

 

DVI to HDMI. Just for simplicity - ease of use.

 

3. I watch feeds from the PC on the TV, but have found quality varies greatly from model to model. The best quality i found so far was the panasonic VT30 plasma but that omits the VGA input needed for a CAPS 2.0 PC. Which TV models are you using and why?

 

I am using a Samsung TV. The blacks are not as black as with a plasma and there is noticeable bleeding in dark scenes. I would still opt for a very slim LED TV with a slim Bezel as I have, for the simple reason that my TV is more off than on and I care about how it looks. I would not buy a 3D TV again as I never ever used the glasses.

 

Plasma or LED is a personal choice, for me, running a class D amp that is always on, I wanted to make sure that my TV was a low power consumption device as well. You can find a chart on The chart: HDTV power consumption compared - CNET Reviews

Another argument for LED if you are running it from a PC/MAC is that the burn in risk is lower, although the current Plasma's do not seem to have issues with that either.

 

4. Any other recommendations given my needs above?

 

My setup works fine for me and goes as follows:

I connect my laptop via DVI-HDMI directly to my TV-HDM input for video.

Audio runs from my laptop via optical out into the optical in of my integrated DAC-AMP. My TV sound is reduces to zero, but not muted.

The reason for not muting it is that I have the optical out from my TV connected to the second optical in of my DAC for the very rare case that I want to use another source as my Laptop for video and still want good sound quality (not perfect, but a lot better than any standard TV speakers).

The Wife Acceptance Factor is important as well, she does not care about sound quality that much and finds it very convenient to run Pandora of the Smart TV straight into the DAC for background music.

 

So my advise is to split audio and video signals. Send the video direct to your TV, send the audio direct to your DAC.

For comfort purposes, you might want to consider this Lenovo Enhanced Multimedia Remote with backlit keyboard N5902 | 57Y6678 | Lenovo | (US) to control your windows PC remote

Having a smart TV and using DNLA would even allow you to browse your video folder on your laptop without needing an HDMI connection to your TV, you would just use your network.

 

From a TV perspective, all depends on how far you want to take it and what your budget is, but as soon as you have decided between LED and plasma and the set of your choice has an optical out and a few HDMI in, you can pretty much choose purely on picture quality.

I would choose a smart TV only for the DNLA function. The apps on TV's are not very useful for the time being IMO

For reviews, I always checked TVs | whathifi.com . You can filter on ratings, size, brand ...

 

 

I hope this helps.

[trionfare]

Thanks for the detailed replies gents - this was really helpful.

 

Souptin - i also found that running Xbox sound through the TV internals degraded the sound. When it went straight to DAC it was superb. looks like I may have to sacrifice some sound to get 1080p though HDMI on Xbox, but could still rely on VGA input for PC connection.

 

Suprised you guys haven't been tempted by a CAPS 2.0 yet. I might use a cheapo laptop as standin until the next CAPS version comes out.

[Paul R]

I use an AVR as a pre. The Mac feeds into the pre through a USB DAC via analog pass through connections. An ATV3, a WD Live Media hub, and our Blueray player all connect in via HDMI.

 

One HDMI feed from the AVR to the television. All video and audio switching is done in the AVR pre.

 

Sound is stripped from the HDMI signals before they are sent to the television, and music never goes over HDMI right now. My outboard DAC is quite superior to the AVR's for music, which the AVR does not alter or process in any way before sending on to the amp.

 

Yes, it is a little compromise - a two channel pre or using the built in volume control on the DAC sounds superior to running the signal through the AVR pre. But - not much. And the convenience is worth it to me.

 

The parts:

 

The Mac stores all the music and most of our videos, all of which we play through the ATV3.

 

The ATV3, as well as playing video stored on the Mac, also gives us Netflix, Hulu, NBA, NHL, and iTunes purchases and rentals, as well as access to our photo libraries.

 

The WD Live unit has access to or stores all the VOB and MKV files from homemade DVDs or from commercial DVDs I own and wanted to RIP. We don't use it for anything else, and if ATV would play VOB or MKV files... well. By the way, we jailbroke an ATV2 and tried that, but it was totally unsatisfactory. Playblack of the VOB files was horrible. Horrible.

 

The Blueray player plays bluerays.

 

The television does have over the air capability, which we use for the news occasionally, and to watch things like the Grammys or the Olympics. It picks up HDTV broadcasts just great, and with better quality than our local cable provider.

 

Hope that helps a bit. I would strongly recommend a good AVR or something similar. We are probably going to move to a NAD M51 or a NAD390DD because they both have HDMI and HDMI passthrough in them. They can act like a two channel AVR, but of very high quality. The better AVR's (i.e. $5000 and up) are easily competitive with similarly priced 2-channel pre's in my opinion. (And that is a very arguable opinion! The best pre's are not matched by any other gear, I think. But then, their prices are rather stratospheric too!

[mwheelerk]

My set up is probably like many others (Mac Mini with HDMI out to HDTV, USB out to DAC and satellite HDMI out to HDTV and toslink optical out to DAC). I have never had any issues with audio or video whether I am using the HDTV as the monitor for my Mac Mini or for watching television via the satellite box (or for downloading HD movies from iTunes). It all works very nicely. The only thing I may not do that others might I suppose is use the speakers on the HDTV, they are turned off.

[Bob Stern]

I have a problem related to this topic.

 

I have a Mac Mini that I use mostly for playing music through a DAC connected directly to the Mini via Firewire. Occasionally I connect my plasma TV to the HDMI output of the Mini so that I can play a DVD on the Mini.

 

My problem is that the video degrades in quality from time to time as if the Mac were unable to keep up with the demands of the video output. I use Apple's DVD Player app to play either the DVD or a ripped copy of the DVD on the Mini's hard drive.

 

Perhaps I am exceeding the capability of the video graphics chip on the Mini. It is an nVidia GeForce 8600M GT with 512 MB VRAM.

 

I set OS X Prefs > Display to use two displays that are NOT mirrored. One display is the plasma TV, set to 480p resolution in OS X Prefs. (It is an old EDTV, not HDTV, so the 480p native resolution of the TV matches the resolution of the DVD.) The other display is a sort of virtual display via Screen Sharing, set to a resolution of 1912x900, 16-bit color.

 

Any suggestions as to a better method of playing DVDs on the Mac Mini?

[Audio_ELF]

Have you tried VLC for playing DVDs?

[Bob Stern]

@Eloise: Good idea. I'll give VLC a try. Thanks!

[Paul R]

Well, even an old Mac Mini should play DVD video perfectly, I used an old PPC based Mac to playback DVDs for a while with no problem, though I had to use a DVD to HDMI cable.

 

I wonder if the video format is what is causing the problem? Most modern DVDs have 720p video on them, so the Mini might be having trouble downscaling the video. I would also disconnecting the VNC screen sharing connection. (A $19 Apple Remote works really well for controlling DVD playback with the DVD Player or VLC.

 

-Paul

 

 

I have a problem related to this topic.

 

I have a Mac Mini that I use mostly for playing music through a DAC connected directly to the Mini via Firewire. Occasionally I connect my plasma TV to the HDMI output of the Mini so that I can play a DVD on the Mini.

 

My problem is that the video degrades in quality from time to time as if the Mac were unable to keep up with the demands of the video output. I use Apple's DVD Player app to play either the DVD or a ripped copy of the DVD on the Mini's hard drive.

 

Perhaps I am exceeding the capability of the video graphics chip on the Mini. It is an nVidia GeForce 8600M GT with 512 MB VRAM.

 

I set OS X Prefs > Display to use two displays that are NOT mirrored. One display is the plasma TV, set to 480p resolution in OS X Prefs. (It is an old EDTV, not HDTV, so the 480p native resolution of the TV matches the resolution of the DVD.) The other display is a sort of virtual display via Screen Sharing, set to a resolution of 1912x900, 16-bit color.

 

Any suggestions as to a better method of playing DVDs on the Mac Mini?

[souptin]

Well, even an old Mac Mini should play DVD video perfectly, I used an old PPC based Mac to playback DVDs for a while with no problem, though I had to use a DVD to HDMI cable.

 

In the interests of not confusing the newbies I am sure you mean a DVI to HDMI cable (also I claim my pedant of the day award!)

 

I also found my PPC Mac Mini worked very well as a DVD player, either using the Apple DVD Player app or VLC. Where it ran out of breath (skipped frames, loss of audio/video sync) was with ripped files, mkv files being a particular problem.

 

+1 on the suggestion that you try disabling the VNC / Screen Sharing. Even my newest mac struggles to display smooth video over VNC.

[Paul R]

Hey Soupie - yep, thanks for correcting that. DVI to HDMI cable.

-Paul

[bleedink]

No one has actually mentioned TVs? My advice is even if you never plan on using 3D that you purchase a set that has the capability built in. Why? The picture quality tends to be better on 2D sources than a similarly equipped 2D TV. I've found great value with Panasonic plasmas. You have to be careful which model to get but each year they have one model that is in the mid to low range price wise and has just a few less features than their flagship model. In 2010 it was the GT25. It has THX certified color calibration for under a grand. Much less. I've heard that their subsequent models in the same range have improved upon my set greatly. You can still find the 2012 version of the GT25 in the 50" range for well under 1000. I'm not sure what this would have to do with audiophile however? Surely you aren't using the TV speakers for listening right? Perhaps I didn't read closely enough. Anyway if you are in the market, they make some amazing Plasmas that compete very well with their own top of the line products. Often you can find 90% of the capabilities of the top of the line model in the mid range--again usually much less than a grand. Think 800 or so...

I've heard that if you prefer LCDs however, Samsung is the way to go. When comparing LCD to Plasma however, the plasmas have always tended to be the better display all things being somewhat equal.

I would stay away from trying to find features like internet TV and all that. There are set top boxes that do the job much better. I have this function somewhere on my model and used it once and never attached an ethernet cable to the tv again. Their DLNA solutions often leave much to be desired. I am also not sure how adding a TV to a DLNA chain would affect the sound? Wouldn't the TV be doing some of the processing in that case?

My 2 cents

[orgel]

I would stay away from trying to find features like internet TV and all that. There are set top boxes that do the job much better.

 

There are also sub-$200 Blu-Ray players that will give you the "smart" capabilities, so that may be a cost-effective way to go if you're shopping for a disc player.

 

--David

[trionfare]

Thanks bleedink. The Pannies looked very tempting but i found there to be 2 issues - 1. Check the AVS forums there are a number of complaints about image burn in. i often run the TV with JRiver in theater mode, and until JRiver 18 comes out - it sounds like the newer Panasonics could be prone to issues here. The other issue i ran into was the spdif output on 2 TVs I tried was close to a number of other connections and very unreliable - Majorly disappointing for me because you can generally score some good deals on those sets. Likely i think I'll see if i can find a decent Sony, Samsung or Sharp for under 1.5k to see if it can do the job.

[Koop]

CAPS 2.0 is great, but a little outdated already. I would build a CAPS 2.0 with an updated mainboard. When it comes to lower power with video processing Intel doesn't hold a candle to AMD's flame. Get an Asus E45M1-1. The AMD E-450 APU is more than capable and still runs passively. It also has much much better graphics capability. That's all I would change though. Other than that the current CAPS 2.0 is great.

[Paul R]

We have two Panasonics here, and love them. One LED and one Plasma.

 

Why would you be using the S/PDIF outputs from the television instead of using Audio Return over the HDMI? Using an AVR between whatever (JRiver, Mac Mini, Bluray, all the above, etc.) and the Television avoids all the issues you are talking about, and means the TV needs to have only power and HDMI connections.

 

-Paul

 

 

Thanks bleedink. The Pannies looked very tempting but i found there to be 2 issues - 1. Check the AVS forums there are a number of complaints about image burn in. i often run the TV with JRiver in theater mode, and until JRiver 18 comes out - it sounds like the newer Panasonics could be prone to issues here. The other issue i ran into was the spdif output on 2 TVs I tried was close to a number of other connections and very unreliable - Majorly disappointing for me because you can generally score some good deals on those sets. Likely i think I'll see if i can find a decent Sony, Samsung or Sharp for under 1.5k to see if it can do the job.

[Koop]

As for the TV. Try and find a used Pioneer Elite Kuro! They are hard to come buy, but to this day nothing compares.

[Audio_ELF]

I wonder if the video format is what is causing the problem? Most modern DVDs have 720p video on them, so the Mini might be having trouble downscaling the video.

With respect Paul; I believe this information is incorrect. DVD-Video standard is limited to 480i/576i (NTSC/PAL).

 

Many DVDs are 720x480 or 720x576 (ie 720 vertical lines) maybe this is your confusion.

 

Only Bluray supports anything higher though you could store about 20mins of 720p video on a data DVD.

 

Eloise

[bleedink]

With respect Paul; I believe this information is incorrect. DVD-Video standard is limited to 480i/576i (NTSC/PAL).

 

Many DVDs are 720x480 or 720x576 (ie 720 vertical lines) maybe this is your confusion.

 

Only Bluray supports anything higher though you could store about 20mins of 720p video on a data DVD.

 

Eloise

 

I'm pretty sure Eloise is correct. Most DVDs are now typically played on an upscaling player giving them the appearance of being 720. As she stated, you couldn't get an entire movie uncompressed at 720 on a DVD.

[Audio_ELF]

Plasma typically suffer from burn-in more than LCD which are virtually immune.

 

While functions such as "smart TV" are better carried out with other set top boxes; often the higher quality (in terms if picture) have these built in so can just be ignored - though in UK BBC iPlayer is useful built into TV.