Bad quality sound from my computer setup

[Bogart]

Hi

 

Not sure if my expectations was just too high or if I did something wrong, but I tried to change my high end CD player with a Mac Mini for playing music and so far I have been very disappointed.

 

This note can both be seen as a question how to get better sound quality and/or as a story of my experience so far.

 

First I ripped my CD's into a PC using EAC. I saved the music files in FLAC format. Then I bought a M2tech Hiface USB adapter to get the music out of the Mac Mini without too much jitter. I converted the FALC files to AAPL in order to play them on my MAc. I also bought Bitperfect and use that with iTunes. Today I took the MAC mini to a shop and asked them to demo some DAC's on a high end setup.

I was very disappointed with the result that sounded - at best - like a low end CD player. I tested it together with an OK CD player (Arround USD 1500) and it sounded much better than the MAC. Sound on the MAC - even through a comparable USD 1500 DAC - was without the high/low tones and without any deepness and 3D. It was like played in a cloud compared to the CD. I think it is similar to playing music on my Marantz DVD player.

Is this to be expected or maybe something has gone wrong with my ripping?? My FLAC files sound the same as the AAPL so the problem most be from the original ripping or from the MAC?

Hope someone can help because I feel that the time for CD's is over. But it is a problem if PC/MAC is not ready to take over when comparing sound quality...

Rgds

Michael

 

[krass]

...an oft quoted line from 1 regular CA member that I think must be relevant. I too am at about the same point as you and about to start hearing what Computer audio can offer after really enjoying my Mark Levinson 390S CD for some years. I'm very interested to see how you can improve your sound. unfortunately the only advice I can bring is the "everything counts" quote from somebody else.....

 

I suggest you fill in some of the blanks on your system configuration so that the experts can begin to help....

eg! BitPerfect settings, type of DAC, which interface you are using, where is your music stored (NAS, mini HD or mini SSD)

 

good luck !, Mike

 

[Kiwi2]

This may be of interest to you...

 

www.audioenz.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/11871-Mac-On-The-Wild-Side

 

[Paul R]

I am not exactly sure what AAPL files are - did you mean ALAC or AAC? AAPL is a "creator" name, not a file type.

 

If you converted from FLAC to a "lossy" protocol, that is your first culprit. You should convert the FLACs to either ALAC (Apple Lossless, Compressed) or AIFF (Uncompressed) format.

 

Beyond that, there is no reason a reasonably modern Mac should not sound at least as good as midrange CD player. I would have said any CD player last year, but that is just not true. But certainly the equal of any $1500-$4000 CD player out there.

 

Why don't you post more of your configuration, giving as many details as possible? You don't tell us what DAC you are using, or what cables, etc. The big key to getting the best sound is probably (IMNSHO) synergy - getting components that all work together well. A $300 DAC may outperform a $1000 DAC in some cases, or rather, produce a sound you like better. Same goes for everything from the file format, to the player software, to the speakers, and the cables that connect them.

 

-Paul

 

 

[Mark Powell]

EAC should be fine, provided you use Accurate Rip Or Secure mode. Can't remember the precise details, have not used EAC for some time. But EAC does not run on the Apple OS, so you has to use a PC. That is doing it hard way.

 

Have no experience of Apple products, but many people here use some variety of MAC and say they are fine. Is there not a player that supports FLAC? There surely must be.

 

Otherwise rip to WAV.

 

Any of these things will remove any doubt about your 'source'.

 

Only then think about about your DAC and other parts. From the DAC on I assume the rest it what you use for your other sources, cables included, so will not affect any comparison.

 

I read that the optical output of MACs is suspect. Use USB.

 

The quality I get is at least as good as I get with my two year old 5000 dollar CD player, so agrees exactly with what Paul says. That direct comparison also demonstrates not to worry about cables, preamp, power amp and speakers. Such things may make a 'general' improvment, but do any comparisons first.

 

[Bogart]

Thanks for the suggestions and input. However I do not feel that "fine tuning" will be enough, because the difference is quit big.

 

Not sure what details to give about my setup. Amp, speakers, analog wires e.a are the same for the CD and for the Mac Mini - so the difference are not in this end of "the chain".

 

Im new to Mac so maybe I need to do something in the settings? The Mac mini is brand new. I use USB together with the M2tech Hiface/coax cable. Sorry about the wrong file format... I use AIFF.

 

I listened on a Hegel 10 DAC and a Hegel CD player almost in the same price range. I think there is a good chance they use the same DAC tech.

 

At the dealer I also listened to a couple of "out-of-the-box" music servers and I had the impression that they also missed the details in the top, so maybe it is not only my setup...

 

However - since the difference is so big from CD quality on my Macmini, I think maybe my mistake is somewhere arround the ripping/convertion or the setup of the MAC, Itunes or Bitperfect.

Any suggestions regarding the system setup?

 

Thanks

 

Michael

 

[Mark Powell]

My computer audio experience (such as it is) is only with Windows. I am a relative beginner and reading here resulted in a quality at least equal to my fairly good CD player. And my machine, a laptop, is not especially powerful, nor is my DAC or cables from the laptop to DAC and DAC to system in any way 'high end'.

 

But I do stress that you get that right first. Almost certainly configuration. Given the slightest chance these operating systems can really mess with the output from the hard disk. Sample rate lights on the DAC are a big help.

 

You are happy with your CD player and its cable, so don't look past that.

 

But there are many here with plenty of experience with Apple set up, and I am sure the end result is in no way inferior to Windows.

 

Regards

 

 

[Mark Powell]

There is a very good guide to both Apple and Windows set up on the dCS site in the UK. It's the -

 

dCS Guide to Computer Audio

 

Suggest a look.

 

[Jsmith]

You can download Audirvana for free or trial software for Channel D Pure Music. Try them to see if it is the player. You can also read on the Wavelength website usbdacs.com about configuring OS for playback.

 

Download XLD for Mac and rip a few tracks in FLAC using Accurate Rip or Secure Rip. Try these through Audirvana since it is easy drag and drop.

 

Have you tried without the Hiface directly to USB DAC? I believe the M2Tech requires proprietary drivers. Have you downloaded and check for correct use? You can also try Toslink out to DAC.

 

What other server / players did you listen to at the shop?

 

-Jeremy

 

 

[One and a half]

Yes, I can relate to that sound, flat and uninviting!

 

Try Decibel player for now, it can play just about anything, FLAC ALAC, AIFF etc.

Either rips work or they fail completely, so may not be your problem.

 

Make sure the Audio Midi changes the sample rate of the track so you have 44/16 correct. Try a hi-res free download from HD tracks to test the Audio Midi settings again, should change with the tracks.

 

Others may chime in to remove Spotlight and other dubious background programs that just get in the way and aren't needed on a music server.

 

If the sample rates are wrong, the music will be white noise or just flat and so so. Could be the hi-face drivers need new ones? (Not sure, some DACS need drivers from the manufacturers, some better than others.)

 

[Paul R]

Okay, AIFF is perfect, it is the equivalent of WAV files and is a very good start.

A new Mac Mini, meaning 2011 running Lion, I assume?

 

Okay, basics first. Step by step, Using Only iTunes -

 

(1) Take the HiFace out of the equation temporarily, connect the Mac Mini directly to the HD10 via USB and, if you have one, via a good quality TosLink cable. (In my opinion, good quality is probably found if you paid more than $10 for your cable, but opinions vary. Also, if you have a second USB cable of equal quality, go ahead and hook the Hegel up through the HiFace to the Coaxial input.

 

(2) Go into Audio/Midi - set the sample rate on the Hegle to 44.1khz. Set the volume, if it is settable, to 100%.

 

(3) Set the Mac Volume to 100%

 

(4) Select a CD RIP file with a sample rate of 44.1khz.

 

(5) Listen to the file, change to the other interface(s) if you have them setup, and play the file again with the same settings. You will need to go into Audio/Midi each time and change the settings, and recheck the volume.

 

 

You are almost certainly going to prefer the sound from one of these connections over the other. Pick the one you prefer the most, and compare it against your CD player, and if you can, tell us about the differences.

 

Probably, you will need to add a third party player, but since they all sound different, let's get a baseline for you to compare against first.

 

The next steps, if iTunes does not sound as good as your CD player, will be to pick, configure, and add a software player and see if it makes any difference.

 

 

 

[Bogart]

Thanks again for the input/suggestions.

 

I checked if Audio midi was at 44khz and that looks fine.

 

I also connected my PC/M2tech Hiface and listened via Foobar2000/FLAC, but that was even worse.

 

So now I plan to test the following things based on your advices and suggestions:

 

- I still suspect my CD ripping might be the problem, so I will download a 16 or 24bit song from the internet for testing. Best will be one I already have to A/B test.

 

- Disconnect the Hiface and try without it

 

- Try another software player

 

- I would also like to try another DAC. I do not know how much that will effect the result - but it should be tested.

 

I will post the result here when Im done testing and/or found "real" improvements.

 

I did not setup anything in Bitperfect? Im not even sure if it is used? I launch it before playing music but I do not see it anywhere in Itunes?

 

Michael

 

[krass]

there is a very long thread on CA about Bit Perfect setup by the developer, so at some point it's worth browsing through it (be warned, its now quite long!).

 

when Bit Perfect is launched it doesn't appear like a usual app. The Bit Perfect controls are found only in the icons at top right, it appears as a round symbol with a small arrow target in it. Ignore the app symbol that appears in the toolbar at the bottom.

 

at top right you can click on the round symbol and a drop down appears, within which you find preferences. there will be a small number of configurable items, like audio device, bit rates, buffers etc