DAC decisions on a budget

[david.parker83]

Don't yawn just yet, this isn't another story about some guy obsessing about the elusive (illusive?) budget audiophile setup. I have just purchased a set of Audioengine 5+ bookshelf speakers with the S8 subwoofer. Looking to integrate my living room stuff for minimal dollars. Here is what I have:

 

- Laptop with a Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 zs Notebook soundcard (PCIe card)

- Apple TV 2 with optical output

- iPod, iPhones, and iPad

- Sony Bravia 42" LCD TV (around 2009) with optical output

 

The Dac Magic will be going down in price once the newer Dac Magic plus comes out. This would seem to solve my problem of getting all the digital devices into my speakers. I'm also considering buying a basic CD player just for digital output to the DAC. I listen to jazz and various live music, and am interested in enough quality to enjoy and critically listen to what's going on.

 

A few questions for anyone interested in helping out:

 

- Does airplay to Apple TV degrade the sound quality (using optical out to a DAC)? If so, I would need to purchase a higher quality iPad dock like the Cambridge Audio Id100. Seems unnecessary if airplay is adequate to preserve sound quality.

 

- Recommendations for a sturdy CD player intended for output to DAC? Maybe this is a common item, but I haven't found any high quality CD players that don't charge you for a nice DAC too. I'm assuming laptop CD players are garbage.

 

- Thoughts on Dac Magic?

 

I only want to spend about 500$ on a DAC. I'm willing to spend about 200$ on a CD player.

 

[beetlemania]

I would get a used Wavelength Proton (caveat: I've only heard the Cosecant, not Proton).

1) It has asynchronous operation (designed by the man that invented asynchronous USB DACs)

2) It is well-built in the U.S.

3) It is well reviewed (check the reviews by Chris and Art Dudley at Sterophile)

 

You can probably be happy with the Proton for years to come.

 

[Mark Powell]

Cambridge Audio are renowned for producing extremely good products at a low price. Many of their products are as good as others costing far more. A recent review of their new universal disk player (approx 1000 dollars) in a respected magazine, ended with 'This player is the equal of anything on the market at any price. One wonders what these guys could do if their development budget was unlimited'. After hearing MC phono stages up to 3000 dollars I bought their 200 dollar one, it was that good. Fed by a Koetsu. To be fair, their new NP30 network player has not come out too well.

 

I suspect that those who dismiss the Dacmagic have never heard one. However, like anything else, it could be improved. Personally I put A Musical Fidelity V-Link in front of mine. It gives up to 96K, rather than the max 48K of the Dacmagic USB input, async USB, and galvanic isolation, all supposed to be 'good things'. I thought the sound was better.

 

But - if you can stretch your budget a little I suggest waiting for the Dagmagic Plus. The cost won't be so much greater than the combined V-Link and Dacmagic, and I will lay bets that it will be as good as anything else on the market at almost any price. I personally am holding off buying a 5-10,000 dollar DAC until I hear it.

 

I have no connection, business or anything else, with Cambridge Audio.

 

[Fritsveer]

Some info on the apple TV;

- The optical output will sent out 16/48khz, indifferent of the "quality" of te music. So 24/192 will be downgraded.

- When one uses remote (app on iphone) to listen via the apple TV to music, the music is buffered on the appleTV. This gives better sound quality then sending music from the source.

 

If you can see the data tranfer of your music-computer you can see the statement above for yourself.

 

[darascal]

1. Apple TV should not degrade the sound quality, unless you're streaming hi-res files.

 

2. I don't know of any CD players priced at $200 that have a digital output. I have a Music Hall CD25.2, which I bought specifically for it's digital out. I believe retail price was around $600; I picked it up for $365 second hand. There's one right now on Audiogon for $350. It's a decent CDP & sound almost as good as my Mac Mini, when played through my DAC.

 

I haven't found any high quality CD players that don't charge you for a nice DAC too

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this - you mean the built-in DAC? Why are you concerned about this if you are planing on running the CDP through a stand-alone DAC?

 

I think you'll be fine with the Dac Magic. They're going for as low as $300 second-hand.

 

Good luck finding a proton for $500. They retail for $900, are tough to find used & usually go for $600-650. Also, I don't think it would suit your needs, since it only has a USB input.

 

Hope that helps,

Rascal

 

[wgscott]

I use ATV2 with a first-gen Bowers and Wilkins Zeppelin and it sounds fine.

 

You need however to be aware that anything that is not 16 bit/48 kHz is going to be up or down-sampled. I don't hear it within the confines of the above, but it is worth noting that is in some sense going to be the weakest link in the system.

 

Peachtree Dac.iT goes for about $500, and has lots of input flexibility.

 

 

 

 

 

[Codifus]

Spend $700 on a DAC. Or spend $500 on a DAC and $200 on a jitterbuster, like the Monarchy DIP. Jitter is the primary enemy to good sounding digital audio. Apple devices like the airport express are notoriously jittery. I'm sure that the appleTV2 is no exception.

 

This site is all about getting the best out of computer audio and with all the equipment you've specified, you're well on your way to a good starter system. I suggest starting with iTunes. It has the best interface to access all your music. Of course there are other like Jriver and foobar, but iTunes is the simplest, and it sounds good too.

 

A computer based music systems enables you to fully access ALL your CDs instantly, right from your fingertips. The CD player is dead. Let it go, man:)

 

 

 

CD

 

 

 

 

[bafonso]

With your budget I would try and find a used Benchmark DAC1 (often on sale in gearslutz) or a USBPre 2.

 

The benchmark DAC1 has been used to master countless albums and still used nowadays by lots of mastering houses!

 

I think stereophile measured apple express digi out and it was pretty good but not sure if anyone has measured the aTV

 

[darascal]

@Codifus,

 

Dude, the guy wants a CD player. I'm sure he has his reasons.

 

For me, it's convenient for when someone pops by with some CD's. I'm all like "yeah, I've got this great high-end system", and then what do I say, "no, sorry, it can't play CD's"? Not! And I don't want to hassle with ripping their CD's while they sit there - "wow, how hi tech is this?!!" - (not to mention putting music on my drive I don't want, not to mention legal issues). And - though I admit I haven't tried it - I doubt if playing off my Mac's CD drive will sound very impressive.

 

Also, I have some CD's that absolutely refuse to rip, though play fine on my CDP. Some of these are brand new. (True, perhaps there's some tech work-around to rip these, some high-end ripper or whatever - I'm open.) Also, I find it reassuring to have around for trouble-shooting my Mac-as-transport or my Dac, in case I'm not hearing what I think I should.

 

But I hear what you're saying. Admittedly I've thought about ditching the CDP, if for no other reason than to free up some rack space or simplify my setup. But with so many variables and possible points of failure in a computer/software, it's nice to have a reliable back-up.

 

Also, do you really think a "jitter-buster" is really going to produce a discernible difference with the relatively low resolving A5's? I had a Monarchy DIP between my AE and Benchmark and not only could I not hear a difference, the DIP often produced screeching digital-sounding noise when I switched speaker outputs. Very annoying.

 

By-the-way, it's "fugetaboutit". But hey, I don't mean to bust ya balls or nothin.

 

 

Rascal

 

 

[david.parker83]

Thanks for the heads up on this product. Just curious if you checked out the S/PDIF Bridge from Halide Design? I read a few reviews on the Brige and compared prices with the V-Link (including high quality cables). Looks like they match up pretty well. Haven't seen any comparisons of them yet though, will keep poking around.

 

[david.parker83]

Thanks to all for the thoughtful input. This has helped a lot.

 

I have been reading up on the Emotiva Audio ERC-2 a little bit. Looks like it does have a decent DAC but is also setup to be a transporter too. A little above my price at $369 but we all know how these projects snowball.

 

Bah, Oklahoma City has zero in the way of hifi stores. I'm not finding a good definition for "reference quality" but it crops up all over these product reviews.

 

[david.parker83]

"I'm not sure what you mean by this - you mean the built-in DAC? Why are you concerned about this if you are planing on running the CDP through a stand-alone DAC?"

 

Did some more reading on this and the proper name is "transporter." Totally showing what a newbie I am at this! :-) I just didn't want to buy a DacMagic and then pay for another DAC when I purchase a CD player. I need to read up on what is important in a CD transporter. Seems like a cheapo CD player with an optical out is still going to be decent. So much to learn...so little money. :-)

 

Why CD player? I have so many of them that it will likely take months to do proper ripping. I want to start listening for imaging and training my ears now, so once I get my digital files setup, I'll have it burned in my ears and can make sure I'm not losing sound. I went through my entire college career with only a pair of Fostex RP T50RP headphones. Otherwise, it was experiences live. :-)

 

[Mark Powell]

Somewhere on this site there was a comparative review. The Halide Bridge is considerable more expensive than the V-Link but their audio quality is near enough the same. One poster who appears to have a fair amount of experience commented "It is not so much that the V-Link is underpriced, rather that the Halide Bridge is overpriced".

 

'Reference quality' is a meaningless term put about by tiny, overpriced 'audiophile' manufacturers. It usually refers to the highest priced section of their already overpriced range.

 

[firedog]

Yes, you can get a dedicated CD transport, but they tend to be pricey audiophile items.

 

As far as a CD player, if you only want to use it as a transport to your DAC, then any player by an audiophile brand will probably be fine.

 

There are lots of quality CD players and transports being sold on the used market for very reasonable prices. Check used equipment at hi-end audio dealers online or at sites like audiogon.com

 

Used market is glutted, so you should be able to pick up something good for not very much.

 

I, for instance, tried to sell an Arcam CD-82, and didn't get any takers, even at a reasonable price. (And no, I'm not interested in hearing from lowballers about it)

 

[drystream]

David,

 

I'll give you a decent CD player to use as a transport for the cost of shipping. Email me.

 

[joshua.ryan.larson]

As you think about a DAC and how it fits in your entire system, I recommend at least considering an integrated amplifier with a well-reviewed built-in DAC, e.g. peachtree, bel canto, etc.

 

[funkle]

I think the new Schiit Bifrost could be one of the strongest contenders for a DAC under $500. It's async, so no need for an interface, and has gotten great reviews.

 

[Paul R]

I could not resist ordering one of the very inexpensive Emotiva XDA-1 Dacs this morning. They are blowing them out for $249, including shipping. At that price - at the worst - new toy!

 

I understand it sounds great, but doesn't have an Async interface. In my case, this may be a plus, as I intend to attach it to a Logitech Touch.

 

-Paul