JPlay - a Player for Windows

[cbutch]

Elprior, JPlay does sound very interesting. I am interested in this type of application as I listen to most of my music at work where I have a fight for system resource taking place on my machine all day long and want to protect the audio related ones.

 

I wonder if you've compared it to Fidelizer? The products are both similar by the sounds of things in that there are different levels of settings. I've been running Fidelizer for a couple of days now. I wouldn't like to publish any judgements of it as I've made loads of changes to my setup of late.

 

Fidelizer is free too which is always a bonus. It amazes me that these developers are prepared to work for free. I'm assuming there's nothing dodgy with it (spamware, etc).

 

Once my system is more settled I'm going to do a side-by-side comparison for myself.

 

[PeterSt]

It amazes me that these developers are prepared to work for free.

 

Quite amazing indeed. Maybe this tells you more : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1625.0;all

 

 

 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

Peter, what's the relevance of your link in this topic?

I believe there's a separate thread regarding Fidelizer here at CA.

 

Marcin

 

[PeterSt]

Hey Marcin. Ask that question to cbutch.

Just tried to answer a question.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

PS: If I had wanted to say something unsollicited I would have done so long ago. Yes, I too hate it when people bash around in other one's threads. Don't tempt me to say more (which counts for anyone).

 

[cbutch]

Sorry but I managed to cause trouble with my first post here. I was only interested if anyone had done a comparison between what look like two similar pieces of software.

 

[easternlethal]

Cbutch - Fidelizer is an optimisation program for Windows whereas jplay is a player. Take a look at this article which clearly explains all the different elements behind getting decent sound out of the computer.

 

http://www.ultraaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=135:matan-arazi-on-music-servers&catid=31:general&Itemid=46

 

At the end of the day it's all about simplification and removing redundancies from a general all-purpose computer and turning it into an audio player.

 

If you believe (as I do) that it is important to remove all sources that produce interference when playing music (and this is the reason why high end CD players sound better than standard PCs), then in addition to optimising your PC, you must ensure the player does not run any programs that produce interference either. This is why I am happy to sacrifice the GUI for sound quality anyday and why I love jplay's hibernate functions.

 

I may get flamed for saying this, but those who criticise jplay for lack of GUI / not being able to use the computer in hibernation mode fundamentally just don't appreciate what jplay is (and should stick to winamp or last fm).

 

But - if you want a real quality player with no comprises that costs no more than a nice dinner then I would seriously recommend jplay.

 

I personally love both XXhe and Jplay and flip between them all the time.

 

[cbutch]

Thanks for that easternlethal. I didn't understand the differences before.

 

Unfortunately the machine I'm using for audio is my work PC, which although it is a top spec machine (i7,16GB RAM,SSD, stc) has to be used for processor/RAM intensive work. The more I read the more I am worried about the effects the other processes are having on the audio services. I may end up running a separate machine just for audio although I'm sure my colleagues will think I'm nuts. They think I'm crazy already spending loads of money on audio when 128kbps mp3 and £15 headphones run straight from a 28p onboard soundcard sounds great!

 

Chris

 

[PeterSt]

Now players fly back and forth in this JPlay thread anyway, I can just as well apologize for being harsh on you. Especially for someone's first posting.

 

Although easternlethal already indirectly explained it, Fidelizer is a more weak application of something which can be inherently there in a player itself. This means that Fidelizer is not at all benefical for those players containing that stuff. All do it differently, and the one may be more friendly than the other. Some have no GUI (JPlay, StealthAudioPlayer), some have something in the middle (cics player means) and some have a GUI only to organize and start playback (XXHighEnd). All have two things in common : 1. Hunting for the best SQ possible, 2. they inherently will not be the most friendly.

 

What should be derived from this, is when you hunt for the best sound you should have a dedicated PC for it.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

[Elprior]

He Peter,

 

nice latest post

 

So as to cool things down :

-> Peter is always very informative, and is having an integrated approach (with the dac) that is very interesting (and ahead).

-> Marcin and Josef are really nice guys too, and have come up with a minimalist very good player.

 

Chris, in every case, as Peter said - and my experience with Jplay does confirm this - you really need a dedicated computer.

 

Elp

 

[cbutch]

Okay thanks guys.

 

I've just ordered a new DAC (John Kenny JKDAC - Battery Powered/HiFace/Sabre) so I'll wait till my system settles down. I'm definitely going to give JPlay a shot once it's all bedded down. Purchase of a separate machine may need to wait a while unfortunately.

 

Chris

 

[Marcin_gps]

We have just released the latest version of jplay, which introduces DirectLink feature, enabling all DACs to play with buffer size of 1 sample - music samples are transported one at a time to DAC. Some interfaces (e.g. Hiface, ESI Juli@) can even play 24/192kHz tracks using 1 sample, without any clicks and pops. That's 5 microseconds for each sample. You need fast CPU to keep up though

 

Regards,

Marcin

 

[jmudrick]

Downloaded and ran it today with my favorites. I love it when something works out of the box. This does beautifully (in hibernation mode), definitely superior to J.River in this mode. No problems with my Hi-Face to Audio-GD Reference 5. I'm buying it. Thanks to Marcin and John Kenny for recommending it.

 

[cbutch]

I'm loving this player. I'm definitely finding the sound less fatiguing that Foobar.

 

They seem like great guys too. I recommended software volume change (removal of padding bits only of course) on the JPlay forum and Josef says they're going to implement it. Once it's done I'll definitely be buying at least one copy.

 

Nobody request any new features till it's done, m'kay!

 

Chris

 

[Goopie]

Jplay is definitely a sonic improvement over JRiver and Foobar. I didn't think a music player would make a difference, Jplay has convinced me. Congratulations to the authors of this great software.

 

[kyrill]

I bought it

the improvement in sound is hardly to get with much much more expensive passive IC or PWC. It does not matter how good yr setup is, it cannot better what goes into it. you remember the old saying "garbage in , garbage out"? Jplayer like no other player at least in windows 64 removes a lot of the garbage what is still in the signal leaving the computer. This garbage will be beautifully amplified by any setup, as for some reason all or parts of it slips through the anti jitter solutions of usb/spdif converters or usb input of sophisticated dacs. So the purity of the source really comes first and becomes the more important the better ànd more expensive the equipment becomes.

For what it gives in the (ultra) most transparent set ups, it is a steal. thx for the very reasonable price guys

kyrill

 

[Marcin_gps]

Thanks guys! We're not done optimizing sound, so prepare for further improvements - they're coming... We also decided to implement volume control and phase inversion for the next release - those with power amps should appreciate it

 

Regards,

Marcin

 

[firedog]

Hi -

Deleted an old version and loaded the newest version. It runs and plays files, and everything seems okay, but I get no sound output. I've tried the different drivers - Wasapi, KS, but it makes no difference.

 

I do get sound from Foobar.

 

[Marcin_gps]

There must be a reason - what error message did you get? My guess is that your Atom doesn't provide enough juice for low buffer sizes. Note that we decreased the default value to 4 samples.

 

Regards,

Marcin

 

[kyrill]

Well this would be Godsend for me as replacing my DEQX internal dacs with out-board stand alone dacs ( which do not have a volume control) robs me of DEQX's analogue volume control.

 

But Marcin and Josef, does a digital volume control not loose too much resolution say -20db and lower compared to an analogue control?

Except when for instance the control is a 32 bit control in respect to 24 and 16 bit files?

 

I can imagine when I order Jplay to upsample redbook to 24 bit it will be a superb volume control for CDs, but what about true 24 bit files when my dac does not accept 32 bit? I dont know if my dacs (3 Burson audio DA-160) will automatically down sample 32 bit to 24

 

[cbutch]

We also decided to implement volume control and phase inversion for the next release - those with power amps should appreciate it

-Marcin_gps

 

Great stuff guys. I can't wait to have a play with the new version!

Chris

 

 

 

 

[cbutch]

But Marcin and Josef, does a digital volume control not loose too much resolution say -20db and lower compared to an analogue control?

Except when for instance the control is a 32 bit control in respect to 24 and 16 bit files?

-kyrill

 

As far as I understand it the guys were going to implement lossless software volume control (I made the suggestion just a couple of weeks back!). In other words no dither and removing the padding zeros only. Each zero equates to 6dB so -20dB wouldn't touch the significant bits of a 16bit source file with a 24 bit DAC or a 24 bit source file with a 32 bit DAC.

 

Chris

 

[kyrill]

thx Chris

 

That would help redbook files

But not 24 bit files, no? Unless you have a 32 bit dac.

Jplay can upsample to 32 bit

I have to find out if my dacs recognizing 32 bit as "over their head" will automatically downsample to 24 bit. In that case the volume control has done its wonderful job

 

[Marcin_gps]

Kyrill, you don't need to own a 32-bit DAC in order to send 32-bit BitStreamSize

 

[kyrill]

I did not kow

 

[firedog]

Hi Marcin-

 

"There must be a reason - what error message did you get? My guess is that your Atom doesn't provide enough juice for low buffer sizes. Note that we decreased the default value to 4 samples."

 

I'm not getting an error message. It looks like the player is playing, but I get no sound. If I play Foobar with the same sound device/driver settings I get sound.

BTW, this isn't running on the Atom server you see in my signature, but a 64bit Windows machine with a 2.3 MHz dual core processor and 8GB of RAM. Not the latest hardware but plenty powerful.