DAC202 -v- DAC2 -v- Ayre QB9 -v- ARC DAC8 ...

[kdubious]

Help. Please?

 

I'm losing control here, quite obsessed in a search for excellent sound.

 

I've been auditioning everything I can get my hands on, and it's tricky.

 

I was thrilled with the sound of the ARC DAC8. Tremdously realistic dynamics and soundstage. Deep and focused. I've been quite disappointed with the QB9, Benchmark and a few other $1000 - $2500 DACs. Nobody in NC carries WEISS.

 

Any word out there on the DAC2 & DAC202? Is the 202 substantially more accurate? Any word on the 202 vs the DAC8? Is it "better"?

 

Kevin

 

[RayBan]

I doubt anyone would offer a demo on a Weiss DAC202, but I have one and it is great.

Previous Benchmark and Lavry but 202 is order of magnitude....

 

[Lece]

In the past, I have had the Ayre QB-9 as well as many other DAC's. Currently, I am listening to, and quite thoroughly enjoying, the ARC DAC8. It has been the best DAC by far in my system. I have not had time with the Weiss DAC202 so I can't tell you which one I would prefer, but I gather at this point your choice would have a lot more to do with system matching than anything else. What would you be using this with?

 

There are also a number of people, including myself, that utilize USB to [your Choice] Adapters such as the M2Tech EVO or Wavelength WaveLink HS instead of the ARC's built in USB. I have done multiple blind tests for my friends in the audio industry, all with a unanimous lean towards the adapters sonic contribution. From what I hear, Weiss has a stellar adapter (albeit $1800), that may worth looking into if you have your heart set on Weiss's digital firewire technology and ARC's superb analog technology.

 

[kdubious]

I'm using it with... umm....

 

That's part of the problem. I'm starting over, and starting with the source.

 

I've been using a pair of Quad ESLs primarily. Other gear has been all over the place.

 

Glad to hear the shared sentiment on the DAC8. Not as glad to hear the "need" to convert away from USB first.

 

Off to find a 202 to which to listen.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[4est]

You may find that the differences in the Weiss 202 vs 2 are smaller than you think. I choose the DAC 2 over the BA Alpha DAC sinically for starters (and the DAC 202 construction wise is more like the 202 than not). The same digital section as the aforementioned INT 202 for starters. You might easily get Vintage King to send you a DAC2 on trial to compare with the ARC.

 

There is no remote for the DAC 2 though...

 

[SteveChicago]

... this may depend on the preamp you're using (I assume you have one as the QB9 has no volume control). A good preamp + quality DAC w/out volume control should sound great. I tried the Weiss DAC202 stand alone vs. my Esoteric D70 and liked the latter better. However, the D70 is a multibit DAC, which are not often made nowadays. Anyway, again, with the right preamp you will have volume control, remote, and plenty of punch (gain). I'm willing to bet the QB9 or the DAC2 would sound very good and you'd save $$$ over the DAC202. HTH

 

[RayBan]

The 202 is best used with Firewire, but can also use USB if needed.

 

[kdubious]

I did this the other day:

 

ARC DAC8 > Quad Pre > Bryston 3B > Quad ESLs and was amazed with the clarity and accuracy of the soundstage. Voices were focused and there was space between the instruments.

 

Same computer, but with this setup:

 

QB-9 > Quad Pre (& ARC LS17) > Ayre V5 > Quad ESLs

 

Something is just not right. It's dull and muddy.

 

Is that the QB-9 sound? (Have I been tainted by greatness?) Is it the V5 amp? Some other setup issue?

 

I was using the ASIO drivers on the DAC8. The Ayre I'm borrowing hasn't been upfitted for 24/192, so I'm using WASAPI (J River) on it.

 

Ideas?

 

[SteveChicago]

... Ray, unless something has changed, the Weiss DAC202 is FireWire not USB

 

[bixby]

Is that the QB-9 sound?

 

It may be. The QB-9 was a bit more relaxed rather than revealing in my system with a bit less distinct bass. I can say I easily preferred my Blue Circle for detail, sense of space and accuracy. That being said, I think some of what you may be hearing is also probably due to the amps you used. I have heard the Bryston amps and they have always sounded open, clean and maybe a bit more forward than some others.

 

Hope this helps.

 

It's great that you got to hear both setups with the same speakers.

 

Interestingly you may hear more differences when you start playing around with cables and players. They make a much more audible difference to my ears than hairsplitting dacs.

 

[4est]

The DAC 2, and 202 inputs are AES, SPDIF, toslink and Firewire. It will also convert from one to another and clock from sync of the inputs when using firewire.

 

"Interestingly you may hear more differences when you start playing around with cables and players. They make a much more audible difference to my ears than hairsplitting dacs."

 

For me upon hearing my DAC2 it was love. A love no cable or player has impacted more than, even though I must admit to being a "player junkie"...

 

[Skyblue]

The QB9 takes a lot of attention to detail to sound really great.

 

I have had mine for 2 years now, and it can really sound truly amazing. However, it can also sound dull, if you are not careful.

 

A couple of tips, pc only:

 

- The usb hub driver must be updated. The standard Microsoft driver in windows just wont cut it.

- This goes for pci as well, as the graphics card can take time away from the qb9 on the bus.

- Take care that the QB9 is on a usb hub alone with no other items. This is was my last fix, and it made the sound go from fine to amazing.

 

I use foobar2k with the new 24/192 asio driver recommended by ayre. The new version of it sounds better than the old.

 

Oh yeah, and follow all advice on the ayre setup page.

 

Its a bit like voodoo. I cannot really explain why all the tweaks make a difference, but I can hear that they do.

 

Edit: Remove the cpu powersavings settings as well. Changing into powersave mode also degrades the sound.

 

[Christopher]

I’ve been listening to the QB-9 for some time now. In my experience, it’s never been “dull and muddy.”

 

My QB-9 sounds just right and I’m very pleased. I have no issues with soundstage, focus, speed and accuracy. This being said, it definitely needed over a few hundred hours to break-in.

 

I don’t doubt your listening experience and comments about the QB-9.

 

There are countless variables that can affect the sound we hear. Personal preferences also come into play.

 

Even if you decide the QB-9 is not for you, it’s great that you are able to listen and compare great quality DACs.

 

 

[blaine78]

I have Owned

 

Benchmark DAC1

Lavry DA11

Weiss Minerva (DAC2)

Ayre QB-9

 

Out of these, the Ayre i found best in my system. Lavry DA11 is an EXCELLENT value DAC, but let down with the USB implementation, so SPDIF sounded best. Weiss Minerva was great too, but it seemed hit and miss in my system and found myself thinking about how it sounded rather than listening to music.

The Ayre is relaxed and lush sounding. and yes, the Ayre does need time to burn in to open up a bit. recommend also the not expensive WireWorld Starlight USB cable, shorter length the better, I'm using 0.5meter here.

Have not heard ARC DAC8, but for the money, i'm sticking with the Ayre, is the first dac I've had without having that upgrade bug feeling.

 

[joeling]

System matching is pretty important I guess.

 

I was once also spoilt for choice too. As I mentioned. I like ARC DAC8 + Empirical Audio Pace Car II USB + PC XP old Foobar. Also like the W4S DAC2 (I feel that this DAC is a giant killer).

 

Regards,

Joe Ling

 

[djmckaytx]

(joeling) Also like the W4S DAC2 (I feel that this DAC is a giant killer).

 

I currently have this DAC in my system. It's pretty amazing. At a much higher price point, I might recommend the Weiss...but the W4S DAC2 has turned out to be a big surprise. It's been an absolute defibrillator to just about every redbook CD I own. It's no slouch with SACD and DVD-A either.

 

Even after 3 months with it I still feel like I got FAR more than my money's worth. There aren't too many things I can say that about these days.

 

[Charles Hansen]

djmckaytx wrote, "It's no slouch with SACD and DVD-A either" regarding his DAC.

 

There is no DVD-A player that will output a full-resolution digital signal to a DAC. Some software will allow you to rip them to your computer, and they can be played back from there.

 

But what about SACD? There is no way to get the digital out of the box, directly from a player. There is no way a computer can rip it to the hard drive.

 

The only DACs I know of that will even accept the signal from an SACD are special ones like the expensive Meitner unit that has a proprietary link between the transport and the DAC. These are designed as a dedicated pair, almost like a one-box player split into two.

 

How are you playing back SACDs?

 

[djmckaytx]

I have been asked in e-mail to comment on how I am playing SACD and DVD-A through the DAC2. This topic has already been discussed ad infinitum here and elsewhere, but here it is:

 

Oppo BDP83SE ---> Cardas HDMI Cable ---> Atlona AT-HD577 (de-embedder) ---> Grover Huffman digital cable (coax) ---> W4S DAC2

 

Of course, this is not really a PURE approach for SACD since the Oppo pre-processes SACD into PCM and the DSD signal doesn't actually touch the DAC2. Additionally, with the Oppo and using this approach my DAC2 gets an 88.2K signal as opposed to the SACD's potential of 176.4K. With certain Sony transports and very early Sony PS machines others have been able to lock on at 176.4K.

 

For DVD-A, I do get 192K from those discs which have been mastered at that level (Jackson Browne's Running On Empty, for example) and 96K from just about everything else. I have not tried it with Blu-Ray discs yet.

 

Keep in mind that this is a stereo only solution. But the sound improvement of taking things through the DAC2 is at least a couple orders of magnitude to my ears.

 

If anyone is interested in this approach, I'm sure it won't be hard to find the applicable thread elsewhere in this forum.

 

[Russ Reed]

What usb hub driver update do you recommend? What pci changes are you suggesting?

Thanks Russ

 

[realhifi]

"I did this the other day:

 

ARC DAC8 > Quad Pre > Bryston 3B > Quad ESLs and was amazed with the clarity and accuracy of the soundstage. Voices were focused and there was space between the instruments.

 

Same computer, but with this setup:

 

QB-9 > Quad Pre (& ARC LS17) > Ayre V5 > Quad ESLs

 

Something is just not right. It's dull and muddy.

 

Is that the QB-9 sound? (Have I been tainted by greatness?) Is it the V5 amp? Some other setup issue?

 

I was using the ASIO drivers on the DAC8. The Ayre I'm borrowing hasn't been upfitted for 24/192, so I'm using WASAPI (J River) on it.

 

Ideas?"

 

It sounds like you had found an answer and then...you changed it. Just a quick thought, maybe the ARC is better and maybe the combo of Quad pre and Bryston is better than the Quad & Ayre combo? Personally I would put the setup that you prefered back into the system. Simple.

 

The one problem with hopping around with components is never having a benchmark, a touchstone that you know and love. From what you wrote I have to say that you answered your own question but are unwilling to accept your answer.

 

 

 

[kdubious]

You are right in that I don't know if it's the Ayre amp or the Ayre DAC that sounds muddy to me. (lack of clarity is maybe a better way to word it. I don't mean to say this is inferior equipment)

 

The trouble is, I'm starting from scratch on all my components, and borrowing various pieces to try out.

 

I recently got access to a DAC 202, and although I have not done a direct AB Test between it and the ARC DAC8, I'm loving what I'm hearing so far.

 

I seem to like the punchiness of Solid State amps. I wish I could find a multi-channel reciever that could double as my 2-channel pre-amp / power amp. (this is how I started my involvement with "computer music") I haven't found one yet that sounds as accurate as the pre's and amp's I'm trying.

 

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

It's not cheap... But have you tried the Classe SSP800 as your pre amp? Lower priced could try Primare SP32 (think that's the correct model number).

 

Eloise

 

[Lece]

Hello All-

 

I have still not seen a good comparison between, what I imagine, would be the two top DAC's in this price range: the Weiss DAC202 and the Audio Research DAC8. I love the sound of my DAC8, but the audiophile in me is curious as to the sonic differences between the two. If you have seen any comparisons or have spent time with the two, please pass your experiences along.

 

Thanks-

 

LeCe