Popular Post ted_b Posted November 25, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 25, 2023 There are so many emotions (some, yes, quite negative) going through my head right now after reading these few dozen posts!! I think I'll bite my lip and simply state that unless you've heard a properly calibrated Atmos setup (say, 5.1.4 or above...7.x.6 being a nice bubble) you shouldn't be able to present an opinion on how it sounds !! And proper setup is no small feat, but not overwhelming either. But like anything, if you want it to work, you gotta sweat the details. You wouldn't present a stereo system with two very different speakers representing left and right. And if possible, you'd try for balanced positioning, etc. Same for additional dimensions, with the height dimension often being "thrown in late". Don't fall into that trap then think Atmos is gimmicky. But, I do have a strong opinion about nomenclature; using the terms "immersive" or "spatial" is a good direction to go. HOWEVER, I am pleading we don't fall into the "3D" trap. It connotates fakery, or at least weird "wear these glasses" compromises. In the video world I'm not sure anyone would call it a retail success. Let's stay away from 3D please. :) Confused and The Computer Audiophile 2 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Popular Post ted_b Posted November 26, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 26, 2023 1 hour ago, ARQuint said: Unfortunately, here's a real quality gap with Atmos for music. There are not all that many music-only Dolby TrueHD discs and downloads to listen to. Among those that are available, most (but not all) of mine come from 2L and they are among the very best immersive-style spatial audio mixes I've ever heard. What's streamed on Apple Music has little to do with that—it's egregiously compressed and sounds it when compared to the available stereo versions available on Tidal, Qobuz, etc. In addition, decisions regarding the mix itself for an Atmos release—which sounds go where— are, in my experience, usually inferior to those that were made for the equivalent SACD, Blu-ray, or download. That's my opinion, based on the small number of albums that are both available as disc or download and can be streamed as Dolby Digital Plus. Andy Quint ? There are hundreds of Atmos releases! And the "which sounds go where" instructions are not inferior, they are the same. The ADM files, sent to the streamers and sent to the sources for the TrueHD distribution (bluray or download) are from the same instruction set, just one is processed in DD+ (compressed) and the other isn't. Sal1950 and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Popular Post ted_b Posted November 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted November 28, 2023 A few things I'd like to write about all these misgivings and, IMHO, incorrect perceptions: * All music playback, be it 2 channel or 16 channel, creates a soundstage that is part real and part derived. The real part is that discrete elements are being put into the mix that end up directly in one's speaker location, while other elements use multiple speaker locations and , to the listener, sound like they are coming from in between the speakers (imaging). This is no different in Atmos, and it is NOT a gimmick or an illusion. These are real objects/sounds being placed. And it ain't just for panning or flying around sound!!! I have many Atmos tracks that put a static object (say acoustic guitar) solidly between the side left surround and top left height, and that image (in my system) is as solid and specific as if that guitar were cemented in my left front speaker. For that reason alone, it is MUCH less frustrating to dial in and calibrate if the speaker pairs or speaker array act similarly, with similar tonality, timbre and gain structure. Same as wanting to have stereo speakers that are close to identical, if not identical. And I disagree that the fronts are the most important. Tell me, in a stereo setup, is the left channel more important, or the right channel?? All channels are important, and once I realized that even the heretofore never-before-used ceiling-based level is as full range and impactful as all other bed and subwoofer channels....I was ready to commit. This isn't throwing some limited range surrounds in the back to handle foley effects in the old dolby surround days; this is committing to "all channels are created equal". All that being said, one can, with room eq and other DSP, create a pretty good bubble of immersion using non-identical transducers...it's just more difficult. But tools like the Spatial Audio Calibration Toolkit are invaluable for this kind of setup. Net/net, Atmos will reward at various levels of calibration; it's not easy but I'm not sure your 2 channel speakers-placed-within-.2-inches-of-each-others-absolute-symmetry-from-the-side-and front walls is any different. We all work hard to get our systems dialed in. So...do it here too. :) * Unless you've heard Dolby Atmos (or Auro 3D) in a decent setup you are unfortunately unaware of its benefits. Those who write about it but haven't heard it are either fools or liars. Don't be either of those; instead learn, experience and give us your real feedback. Anything else is a waste of our time (and probably yours). * I don't understand the hesitancy of using streamers like Apple TV 4K + to listen to the DD+ compressed Atmos mixes available to us on Apple Music. Yes, it's compressed, but have you heard this stuff?? As Chris so eloquently writes above, the Atmos mixes, compressed or uncompressed, can allow individual instruments and voices to occupy its own (often) very large real estate in your now-expanded soundstage. I find even Apple Music's compressed Atmos to deliver dynamic ranges that far exceed their redbook or even hirez 2 channel counterparts. And yes, when you then get the family jewels, the TrueHD MKV or BDMV download or disc, you can enjoy that next level of sq. But to say Apple Music is unlistenable is either a bad home setup or a load of misinformation intended to squash appeal. Give a listen to GD's Europe 72', GD's American Beauty, The Yes Album, any of Leftroman's stuff, Anna B Savage Influx, Saya Gray's 19 Masters, hell...listen to the 1964 recording of And I Love Her by the Beatles (Red Album)!! Tell me it's horribly compressed and unlistenable. NOT. And I consider myself a hirez detail snob, writing historically about the differences between DSD512 and PCM 768, etc etc. And Atmos's 24/48 stands tall with these comparisons, mainly because it has the huge advantage of spreading out the objects over a very large canvas. * Another pet peeve about not listening to streamers: if you've run out of monthly subscription money, then ok (but that doesn't feel like our readership demographics). BUT.....now my analogy: for those of us that remember AM and FM radio, who in their right mind would have said "I don't listen to FM radio cuz my vinyl sounds so much better"?? I would surmise that you probably bought that vinyl after hearing it on FM radio, which is the main benefit!!! It was the perfect tool to preview new music, preview possible purchases, preview horrible music you clearly are not going to buy, etc etc. And there's even some music that I've only ever heard on FM radio, love it, but never bought a physical copy cuz it just wasn't the priority at the time...but I realized that hearing it on FM only is just fine.. I mean, I've never bought a Lynyrd Skynyrd album but their music is clearly a small part of my life's soundtrack, thanks to FM radio. I put Apple Music in the same category, albeit better sonics (at least in my system). Sorry for the ramble. My $.02 Ted Sal1950, Jud and PeterG 2 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Popular Post ted_b Posted December 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2023 37 minutes ago, Sal1950 said: I understand what your saying, If there's modern technology that can reach into those 60+ yo recordings and come out with improved SQ, better revealing of inner detail, lower distortion, etc; fine. But that should be just as easily accomplished then in 2ch mode. But AI or no AI, I don't believe you can take a mono or simplistic ancient 2ch recording and turn it into something that realistically can be called a genuine immersive recording. Put on the Beatles Red album on Apple Music, play "And I Love Her" in Atmos and call me in the morning. :) The Computer Audiophile and Jud 1 1 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
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