Connecting Foobar to WiiM Pro through WiFi on Windows machines to stream local music files

[excelsius]

Long time Foobar2000 user, but brand new to streaming. I have thousands of music files (mp3, FLAC, APE) that I'm trying to stream from Foobar on PC to WiiM Pro wirelessly through WiFi (not bluetooth). After a lot of searching and failing, I found out about BubbleUPnP. That seems to be the only option. I also installed the foo_upnp plugin in Foobar. I've been very excited to be able to finally play music wirelessly. However, I still have an issue and was hoping the knowledgeable audiophiles in this forum can point me in the right direction.

 

1. The only way I'm able to play music to WiiM is if I go to View--> UPnP Controller --> select WiiM Pro dropdown from the playlist and hit play. This is clunky since it opens a new overlay window just for playing and doesn't allow to just play naturally from within playlists themselves. It also does not allow me to rate music or keep statistics on play counts:

 

When I try to set the entire output from Foobar to WiiM Pro, the UPnP is missing in the output menu, so I can't do that:

 

The first question is what I need to do to change the output of Foobar to WiiM Pro so that any music I play in any playlist automatically goes to WiiM?

 

2. I can control volume and pause/play through the WiiM remote, but this method does not allow switching to next/previous tracks. Is there a way to allow such control through WiiM?

 

3. Are there better solutions that I'm missing? I'm aware of expensive apps like Roon and Audirvana, which I will try later, but I'm much more interested in native support. I also have a Synology NAS where all my music is duplicated.

 

4. The WiiM app on Android is extremely clunky and takes a long time to access/browse DLNA files. Is there a better option to play from mobile devices to WiiM that doesn't include the WiiM app? And here too, I'm not that interested in streaming services like Spotify. It's exclusively for playing my local files.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[excelsius]

After playing 8 or so tracks, it doesn't play any additional tracks. Keeps saying that it's "Buffering..."

[DuckToller]

I have the WIIM mini only, but hat no problems observed back last summer when I tested it with fb2k.

I would think using BubbleUPnP as controller, selecting fb2k as library and WIIM Pro as renderer should be the way to go.

I'll re-install fb2k to rest it tonight an report back findings.

Perhaps @Cebollahas an idea where your problem lies exactly?  His bubble knowledge and gentle guidance towards solutions are unchallenged, imho!

[DuckToller]

Hello again,

here is my fb2k output to a WIIM device (inside Audiophonics DAW-S250NC via UPnP plugin - 2nd screenshot) over WiFi

 

Tested with Bubble / Android as working - however run into an decoding problem, output was only 16/48  WAV for everything higher than CD-FLAC when I did not use the library as source but the playlist in shuffle mode.

Using the library of fb2k as source - all is good:

[Cebolla]

@excelsius, to simplify things I suggest you remove the old foo_upnp plugin (which hasn't been maintained by its developer for several years) and instead install the well supported foo_out_upnp plugin (as highlighted by @DuckToller's 2nd pic). This will give you a far simpler user interface, with the ability of selecting in foobar2000 the WiiM Pro, or any other UPnP/DLNA streamer on the network, as if it were an output device.

 

Basically, the foo_out_upnp  plugin packages fb2k's own audio output as a (continuous) network audio stream, with the choice of it being either just plain raw 16 bit LPCM (aka L16) or in a WAV container or in a FLAC container. 

[excelsius]

3 hours ago, Cebolla said:

@excelsius, to simplify things I suggest you remove the old foo_upnp plugin (which hasn't been maintained by its developer for several years) and instead install the well supported foo_out_upnp plugin (as highlighted by @DuckToller's 2nd pic). This will give you a far simpler user interface, with the ability of selecting in foobar2000 the WiiM Pro, or any other UPnP/DLNA streamer on the network, as if it were an output device.

 

Basically, the foo_out_upnp  plugin packages fb2k's own audio output as a (continuous) network audio stream, with the choice of it being either just plain raw 16 bit LPCM (aka L16) or in a WAV container or in a FLAC container. 

Thank you both. Yes, that new plugin resolved the issue and I also added the Output menu into the Foobar interface for quick switching, as @DuckToller showed in his screenshot. Just couple of clarifying questions:

 

1. I still cannot advance the tracks through the WiiM remote. I have to do it through Foobar only. Is there a way to control playback through WiiM? Luckily at least it still supports Pause/Play
2. With this plugin, I can only control the volume through the WiiM Pro remote. The Foobar or Windows sound control doesn't work as it did with the old plug in. Is there a setting that I need to change perhaps? It gives me the below error:
   1. Scalar volume control not supported with this device.
      Please use volume up / volume down menu commands or keyboard shortcuts.
3. Is there a better way of setting up this entire process?
4. Finally, I'm curious if any of you have experience with Roon or other paid services and whether they make playback much easier than this setup.

[stefano_mbp]

4 hours ago, excelsius said:

have experience with Roon or other paid services and whether they make playback much easier than this setup.

I tried Roon but for my taste is too much expensive .

I use now, since many years, MinimServer that is a UPNP mediaserver.

You can try it, it can be installed on Windows, macOS, Linux and many nas, Java is needed too.

The setup is very easy, you need Minimserver running on a pc/nas, a smartphone/tablet on which run a control point app like Wiim (or MConnect Player or Bubbleupnp ) and a UPNP/DLNA renderer (endpoint) like Wiim .

Just select the mediaserver on the control point app, select your renderer too and play, that’s all.

Minimserver is available for free as Starter Edition license, or paid (GBP 40) as Full License, there is a trial period available (for the Full License) and you can experiment the potential of the Full License

[DuckToller]

6 hours ago, excelsius said:

4. Finally, I'm curious if any of you have experience with Roon or other paid services and whether they make playback much easier than this setup.

I have tested Roon and found it working well for integrating devices, but at an extreme cost. I refrained from it for their unclear usage of computer capacities and their owners behavior at the Roon support forum.

 

Audirvana was once an option, but they changed their payment model and ceded support of their preceding software

 

For my personal comfort I found JRiver sufficient, having used it continuously over the last decade and upgrading only every third new iteration. As a fallback there is fb2k.

 

With my next Audio PC setup I may try Minimserver.

 

I am using a i7 CAPS audio server, a NAS and Audiolense XO/JRiver with an active speaker setup 

[bogi]

7 hours ago, excelsius said:

Just couple of clarifying questions:

When you play from foobar2000 through foo_out_upnp, you are using your wiim as UPnP/DLNA Renderer. Then wiim does not act as Control Point so you have to control playback from foobar2000.

If you would like to control playback from wiim application with its remote, then it doesn't have anything with foobar2000, unless you would like to use foobar2000 as UPnP Media Server.

If you want to control playback from wiim remote, the wiim pro overview page states:
"Or connect to your NAS or local files to stream your favorite music. "
Just share your local music library (which you are accessing from foobar2000) and define it in wiim as NAS network folder. No UPnP/DLNA necessary.

[DuckToller]

7 hours ago, excelsius said:

Is there a better way of setting up this entire process?

as mentioned initially:

On 4/6/2023 at 8:23 AM, DuckToller said:

I would think using BubbleUPnP as controller, selecting fb2k as library and WIIM Pro as renderer should be the way to go.

library:        database of audio files with file and location information - your pc, needs to be powered on

controller:  initiates&control the streams between library and renderer - tablet or mobile pone

renderer:    receives the streams for decoding or forwarding the signal to decoder - streamer/dac->WIIM

[Cebolla]

11 hours ago, excelsius said:

Just couple of clarifying questions:

 

1. I still cannot advance the tracks through the WiiM remote. I have to do it through Foobar only. Is there a way to control playback through WiiM? Luckily at least it still supports Pause/Play
2. With this plugin, I can only control the volume through the WiiM Pro remote. The Foobar or Windows sound control doesn't work as it did with the old plug in. Is there a setting that I need to change perhaps? It gives me the below error:
   1. Scalar volume control not supported with this device.
      Please use volume up / volume down menu commands or keyboard shortcuts.
3. Is there a better way of setting up this entire process?
4. Finally, I'm curious if any of you have experience with Roon or other paid services and whether they make playback much easier than this setup.

 

1. As I mentioned earlier, the foo_out_upnp plugin's purpose is to provide fb2k's audio output as a network stream - so the only part of the entire playback process that the Wiim can have any control over is the final flow of the networked audio data that it is receiving. If you require to actually remotely control fb2k's audio file player's functions, you really ought to use a fb2k remote control app.
2. 1. I should first point out that if you were actually using the old foo_upnp plugin's Control window as shown in your pic, the Control window has a volume control slider specifically for that purpose - I'm not sure how you managed to control the Wiim's volume without it (so by instead using fb2k's main window volume slider or Windows sound control).
   2. The reason why you are getting that volume control error message with foo_out_upnp is because your custom volume control slider doesn't know that you've installed foo_out_upnp, which uses fb2k's alternative (non-dB) using method for handling volume control. The developer of the custom volume control that you are using ought to have taken that into account. If you had instead been using fb2k's original default volume control slider, you would have noticed that it would change to a pair of volume minus/plus buttons & a volume mute/unmute button (see @DuckToller's first pic)  whenever you select a UPnP streamer as fb2k's output device. See this post by foo_out_upnp's developer Peter on the hydrogenaudio forum for further info:   https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,118190.msg976311.html#msg976311
3. If your plan is to continue using foobar2000 on your computer as the user interface, then there's really no better way of setting this up.
4. No (non-trial) experience with Roon, as I'm quite happy to continue using the free open source Logitech Media Server, via the web browser user interface provided by the Material Skin and the Music & Artist Information LMS plugins:                                                                                                     
5. 

[DuckToller]

22 minutes ago, Cebolla said:

If your plan is to continue using foobar2000 on your computer as the user interface, then there's really no better way of setting this up.

I could think about using a tablet and Remote Desktop app (RDP) as an alternative - in case fb2k is used on a windows machine.
The choice of tablet for having the interface in an acceptable size compared to a mobile phone.