10 Gb/s vs 1 Gb/s NAS port

[Markus8]

Got a question someone might have a clue on. On my QNAP 453DX running the ROON core there is a 1 Gb/s and a 10 Gb/s port. What should be better to use sound quality wise?
There seem to be reasons (pro/cons) for both, but maybe someone has experience/explanation. 

[SQFIRST]

True 10G protocol (Device needs to report that it is running port at 10G) provides that extra jitter reduction that may well translate in favor of better sound, especially considering that you are connecting a Roon core which can be very jitter inducing. I find the decision very easy in my setup. 10G.

[ericuco]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseam in at least two threads - "Optical Network Configurations" and "Network Isolation".

[SQFIRST]

It is a surprisingly still hidden aspect. Doesn't hurt to reiterate in case it helps.

[Markus8]

40 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

True 10G protocol (Device needs to report that it is running port at 10G) provides that extra jitter reduction that may well translate in favor of better sound, especially considering that you are connecting a Roon core which can be very jitter inducing. I find the decision very easy in my setup. 10G.

Interesting! Is improved latency also something that is in favour of 10 G?

[SQFIRST]

I believe the jitter related improvements introduced in the 10G protocol is what makes the biggest difference for audio. As Ericuco mentioned, there is a lot of coverage on those other threads and I am just a happy customer not the expert.  Do you already have any 10G networking in place?

[Markus8]

@SQFIRST Ah I see - reducing jitter is always a good approach for digital streaming. 
Currently it’s just my QNAP NAS which is having a 10 GB port, which is connected to a 1 GB switch. But I hope going from the 1 GB port to the 10 GB port on the NAS (it has both options) will already make a difference. What’s your thought?

[SQFIRST]

Definitely worth a try. The qnap port is a 10gbe nbase-t which means it supports multiple speeds, however, whether the internal circuit chooses to use the 10g related process is not clear. 

If you are familiar with Roon server related jitter issues then it is easy to tell when the issues are not present. More than likely if both ports sound the same then the 10G port is not utilizing the higher protocol advantages.

To be fully certain you may need a 10G switch or FMC that connects to the 10G port in the NAS.

[ericuco]

46 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

Currently it’s just my QNAP NAS which is having a 10 GB port, which is connected to a 1 GB switch.

10Gbe switches are available and inexpensive. For example,

 

https://mikrotik.com/product/css610_8g_2s_in

[Markus8]

32 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

If you are familiar with Roon server related jitter issues then it is easy to tell when the issues are not present.

Unfortunately not really. Is there some link etc to get more information about Roon server related jitter issues?

[SQFIRST]

Good price on that switch. I use a different Mikrotik switch and can confirm that using a 10GBase-T SFP (sfp that accepts ethernet) will use the 10G protocol in the switch. This fits the OP's scenario. 

[SQFIRST]

2 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

Unfortunately not really. Is there some link etc to get more information about Roon server related jitter issues?

You may already be in good shape if you are satisfied with your Roon sound! This is not something you need a link for but simply check whether you have pulled all your hair out or not :)

 

 

[Markus8]

Haha well there is definitely work to do on the ROON core / NAS (for example deactivated all apps, system services etc. not necessary for running ROON) and I’m always glad about any suggestion or input. 

[audiobomber]

21 hours ago, Markus8 said:

Got a question someone might have a clue on. On my QNAP 453DX running the ROON core there is a 1 Gb/s and a 10 Gb/s port. What should be better to use sound quality wise?
There seem to be reasons (pro/cons) for both, but maybe someone has experience/explanation. 

I've seen no definitive answer. A few are are saying that 10Gb is better because it has a lower jitter spec. Yet some audiophile companies advocate for and use 100Mb. I know my sMS-200 Neo sounds better when limited to 100Mb. You could try both ports and let us know if there's a difference. At least that would answer whether playing through a 10Gb port adds anything. 

 

[SQFIRST]

It is clear if one actually uses a 10G connection. There is no confusion once you block server jitter by running the signal through a 10G protocol.

I think the confusion happens when different application approaches are combined for an understanding. 100MB is to the end-point from a controlled and optimized output. 10G can block incoming jitter. There is no need to see both as single solution and each can be correct and useful in its own place. It is up to the individual to decide what is needed and how it best fits their needs.

[audiobomber]

14 minutes ago, SQFIRST said:

It is clear if one actually uses a 10G connection. There is no confusion once you block server jitter by running the signal through a 10G protocol.

I use a Silent Angel N8 and MC220L, both with upgraded power, with Finisar SFP's into an EtherREGEN. I find it hard to believe that replacing the N8 and FMC with a 10Gb Mikrotik and Finisar SFP+ transceiver would sound better, even with a PSU upgrade on the Mikrotik. The 10Gb conversion would cost CA$500, so not worth a try without a firm expectation of success. My plan at this time is to replace the FMC with another ER. 

[SQFIRST]

In your setup, if you are asking for suggestion, the MC220L is what you can try replacing with a 10G as FMC.

[audiobomber]

2 hours ago, SQFIRST said:

In your setup, if you are asking for suggestion, the MC220L is what you can try replacing with a 10G as FMC.

That would also require replacing my Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFP's. The cost gets prohibitive for something that could likely be an interim step ahead of my proposed "ER-V2 as FMC" upgrade.

 

A Mikrotik switch would make sense economically if I were to sell the Silent Angel N8 and SFP's, but I have insufficient information to know whether that would achieve better SQ, and I remain skeptical.

 

Anyway, I feel I've hijacked the thread, so I'll stop. I'm following other threads along this line (10Gb vs. 1Gb speed and Mikrotik vs. audiophile-oriented switch).

[SQFIRST]

You are fine. I didn't mean to disrupt the conversation either and your question regarding feedback was to the OP, which still stands. Since I had recently gone through the experience of 10G improvement, I chimed in, maybe bit too emphatically. Please continue with your research and best regards.

[agisthos]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:17 AM, audiobomber said:

I've seen no definitive answer. A few are are saying that 10Gb is better because it has a lower jitter spec. Yet some audiophile companies advocate for and use 100Mb. I know my sMS-200 Neo sounds better when limited to 100Mb. You could try both ports and let us know if there's a difference. At least that would answer whether playing through a 10Gb port adds anything. 

 

Same here. I found reducing the speed of the port linking router to streamer to 100Mb improved audio quality. This was the case when connecting the steamer directly to the router, or with a switch in between.

 

Also completely disabling wireless in the router (and then offloading wireless access onto its own dedicated device) also improved things.

[jabbr]

On 2/26/2023 at 11:46 AM, Markus8 said:

Got a question someone might have a clue on. On my QNAP 453DX running the ROON core there is a 1 Gb/s and a 10 Gb/s port. What should be better to use sound quality wise?
There seem to be reasons (pro/cons) for both, but maybe someone has experience/explanation. 

 

The switch itself provides the isolation to the endpoint connected to the DAC. A switch with proper isolation will be impervious to upstream noise and so it doesn't matter which port you use on your NAS. Not all switches provide perfect isolation but 10 Gbe Ethernet and faster does.

 

Soooo ... if your endpoint is fiber optic isolated from common mode noise, then a 10Gbe ethernet segment from the NAS will provide upstream jitter isolation