Master Clock for your EtherREGEN

[James Stephens]

4 minutes ago, MartinT said:

 

I installed a heatsink and then put a door stopper on top. Keeps the ER cool and the door stopper stops the fins from resonating.

 

Ah. Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I see now from year earlier pic they are raised up ... what’s the rectangular thing in between?

 

James

[James Stephens]

3 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Yes, sir: search the threads a bit. This topic seems to rise and fall like the tides. A warm or bit-more-than a bit warm is

normal, by all accounts.

 

When I first put mine in, I did all kinds of temp, ambient temp, and RH readings. It doesn't impact sound. Feel free to have fun though.

 

The only thing I think is helpful, if not weighting it a bit, is getting one of those laptop clamp stands to position it vertically, if the cables are lifting it, etc. Cheers... 

 

Hi there. Sure thing not worried about the temp but since i want to add weight to hold down the ER i don't want to make it any hotter .. so will likely use a heat sink + weight like MartinT. Still deciding ....

 

Best, James

 

[James Stephens]

7 minutes ago, MartinT said:

 

Granite coaster.  Not sure what you call them in the US, you put them under a glass.

 

Ah ok thanks. I'm a Brit 🇬🇧 i just live here ... Best, James

[James Stephens]

52 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

I'm reading up this thread with much interest.

 

Back in page 21 YY posted about Merging NADAC needing a 625kHz clock input and it seemed the 10MHz wouldn't work for him and he would need a frequency-adjustable unit. But the quoted post mentions a Horus used with a 10MHz clock with apparently good results. So would the BG7TBL 10MHz OCXO discussed in this thread work with a Horus?

 

I'm waiting for HamRadioshop to get these back in stock to get one. At a minimum it should improve the eR. If it can also improve the DAC...that would be even sweeter.

Hi there, could it perhaps be that the Studer is fed a 10MHz Master clock and that it generates a Word Clock for the Merging Horus? Best, James

[James Stephens]

16 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Mmm...not sure what this means. What is the Studer?

Regards

They make mixing consoles and other signal processing equipment such as word clock distributors for studios and control rooms. Pro stuff.

[James Stephens]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I’m testing various apps for iOS to make sketches on my iPad.
 

I just draw this one. I’m posting the sketch as an input to understand or plan a digital chain where clocks will be a part of it. I would assume a DCC isn’t the most common item, as most people seems to have USB DAC’s these days. Several have still found a DCC can make a DAC sound better. 
 

I’m not sure if it’s possible to make some general rules how to avoid braking isolation. What I state below is just my personal assumption. It may contain several errors. 
 

There is an isolation between A and B side. (As well as B to A). 
Same LPS to power two or more units may create loops. 
The use of LPS 1.2 (or the early LPS-1) will create isolation.

I assume some endpoints (The Rendu’s) has isolated USB out ?

The use of separate power will help, but still an ethernet cable or clock cable can create loops. 
It should be possible to power a clock with an LPS-1.2 and use a spitter to clock two items, if one of them is powered by a LPS 1.2

Grounding of EtherRegen is left out. As user guide says it’s normally not needed. 

 

I have left out clocks with isolated outputs for now. (It may seem as a optimal solution, but I don’t know).  
I have on purpose not said what’s between DCC and DAC. It shouldn’t matter. 

I can try to draw some more (generic) diagrams upon request in order to make examples so hopefully we getting some good guidance of what should work.

 

 

 

 

 

Adrian will so be so excited you are going to buy of his 3 clocks.

 

[James Stephens]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

A very good question. I was trying to avoid USB to SPDIF converter. As it can also output I2S. 
A DCC could probably be anything that converts or recloock a digital signal ?
D=Digital C=Converter

So I’m missing on one C 😀

 

Here is a manufacturer using DCC

https://www.denafrips.com/ddc

 

DDC not DC or DCC.

 

DDC = Digital To Digital Converter

 

In the case of their best DDC, the  Denafrips Gaia, it is designed to work in conjunction with their Terminator series DAC from which it is fed two word clock signals.

 

James

 

[James Stephens]

5 hours ago, GMG said:

Actually it is the opposite. 
when connecting the Gaia to the Terminator the Gaia is synced to the terminator clock (which is supposed to be higher grade then Gaia) and it’s not the Terminator that is syncing to the Gaia. It actually means that for those who have the Terminator the cheaper Hermes DDC is probably a more sensible pair (Hermes looks same as Gaia with lower grade clock, but with Terminator it doesn’t matter...)

 

I am actually thinking (not knowing) that such a DDC, which does reclocking with ocxo and has high grade power supply, will benefit my system more then a clock feeding the ER. 
the price of Gaia is similar to AfterDark 3 output clock but with Gaia you get reclocking with OCXO just before the DAC and not just OCXO for reclocking inside the ER before endpoint. If endpoint is also the DAC (streaming DAC) maybe it doesn’t matter which option you chose, but I use streamer and separate DAC. 

 

For "it is fed" above I meant "Gaia is fed". 

 

The Gaia has two clock inputs which don't have to come from the Terminator but although the Terminator can output Master Clock and Word Clock frequencies the Gaia requires 45.1548MHz and 49.152Mhz Master Clock inputs.

 

Same for Hermes as far as I can tell. 

 

Best,

James

 

[James Stephens]

1 hour ago, nichino said:

I am not affiliated with Denafrips but I think it's worth pointing out that there is a distinction between their Terminator vs Terminator-Plus DACs:

 

https://www.denafrips.com/terminator

 

https://www.denafrips.com/terminator-plus

 

I believe it is only the Terminator-Plus which has the OCXO CLOCK-OUT that can be used to synchronize other connected devices.

 

As an aside, I recently acquired the AfterDark Giesemann OCXO clock (Emperor Signature) to pair with an EtherRegen and my Denafrips Pontus II, really enjoying the sound so far. Still within the first week of my burning in, hope to post a more detailed impression once everything settles. 

 

Cheers,

Nick

 

Good Point.

 

I was looking at the Plus. The link to the manual for the Terminator (https://www.denafrips.com/terminator-download) wasn't working for me but the one for the Plus was (https://www.denafrips.com/download-terminator-plus) so I couldn't be sure.

 

Best,

James

[James Stephens]

1 hour ago, PYP said:

from that same quote regarding "flipping" the eR:  

"Whether this is going to be audible, who knows. Remember all the decrease in leakage and external phase noise is still there."

 

 

... yes indeed, you win big with the ER whichever way round it is 🙂

[James Stephens]

A veil has been lifted!

 

(Note - The above statement is one I have promised to myself many times that I would never use!)

 

I started powering my BG7TBL with an LPS-1.2 a couple of days ago and oh boy did SQ take a jump in the right direction!

 

I was using a Teddy Pardo (TP) 12/2 before that. I'm not saying that the TP isn't a good PSU - Exasound recommends them for their DACs and the Naim community has been using TP PUS's for years; rather I suspect (I am not 100% on this) that I may have had an issue with leakage currents making it to my endpoint via the clock cable since the TP was plugged into a power conditioner that has 2 iFi iPower X 12V DC power supplies plugged into it and John write in another post that he measured a lot of leakage currents from the iFi PSU's. That suspicion led me to decide to do some testing .. I started off by making a ground shunt and subsequently borrowed the LPS-1.2 from my ER ... before long I had an order in for a second LPS-1.2.

 

I plan to re-purpose the TP along with a Y-cable to get rid of the iFi iPower PSU's.

 

Best,

James

[James Stephens]

1 hour ago, soares said:

I have the same here. Not sure how it compares to the DAPU, but I am quite happy with the results. It would be great to have its specs notably phase noise.

 

Hi there same as the DAPU. There is also a link to the specs. James

[James Stephens]

5 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

Belden 4694 for example. (I'm waiting for some data from Canare regarding thier HD cables)

 

According to John, a flatter the curve the better. What I did was to calculate the slopes between the sample points provided by the manufacturers and compare. (Y2 - Y1) / (X2 - Y2).

 

Belden published more points, but they don't exactly overlap Canare's. I did compensate with any extrapolation, rather did my best to lay them as close as possible.

 

The resultant figures are in radii and multiplied by 100 to assist the eye in discerning the differences. 

 

See attached spreadsheet. 

 

As you can view in the spread, the 77S has flatter slopes than the other stranded cables (Furutech slopes are abysmal). Belden beats it by a nice margine. 

Slopes.xlsx 10.23 kB · 9 downloads

 

Checkout Belden 4794R

 

https://catalog.belden.com/techdata/EN/4794R_techdata.pdf

 

https://www.amazon.com/UHD-SDI-Cable-12G-SDI-Custom-Connection/dp/B06XSLRYVV

 

Best,

James

 

[James Stephens]

 

I added an Ingress Audio Level 3 Bearing Isolation System to my AfterDark Clock. Thanks @JohnSwenson for the pointer on this a while back!

 

Pic included ... tough to see but the clock sits atop a small rectangular piece of acrylic from TapPlastics, which rests on the bearings.

 

The moment I put this into service the importance of flexibility in ones Power + Clock cables became immediately apparent (as already mentioned by John previously).

 

I replaced my super-stiff Ghent DC-GAC4  for a Ghent DC-4S6G (with JSSG360 it seems a little more flexible than without it turns out due to the braided outer jacket). 

 

I replaced my Canare LV-77S from Blue Jeans Cable for a more flexible Geistnote Apogree Wide Eye clock cable. I am using the Mini Circuits filter so I don't need to be fussy about the clock cable.

 

The clock seems pretty responsive rolliness-wise at this point when I nudge it.

 

Can I do better cable-wise than the above? Any advice appreciated!!!

 

Thanks!

 

 

[James Stephens]

1 hour ago, scolley said:

And astute observation by @superdad. But I would offer - in my limited experience - that if the cables themselves are given some freedom of movement - good cables with RollerBalls under the DAC is still a killer combination.

 

Would it be better with limber cables that still provided great shielding? How could it not? But it’s still a sonically wonderful compromise.

 

Well put.

 

I have a question in to Geistnote to confirm, but I suspect the Apogee Wideeye Clock Cable is composed of dual-shielded coax. I’ll report back.

 

If anyone has another suggestion for a reasonably flexible sine-wave clock cable, I’m all ears!

 

[James Stephens]

Phase noise matters.

 

I’ll posit, but I’m not in position to test this, that the measured phase noise of the LB clock might be a lot better than advertised.

 

Such was the case I recall with the sample of Crystal CCHD-575 oscillators tested for use in the ER.

 

These advertised numbers are really a worst case guarantee.

 

When you purchase an OXCO e.g from AfterDark, or Cybershaft, each one is measured and binned accordingly. You get a certificate with test results for that oscillator. You aren’t going to get something more than like a dBc or two off from what you pay for else it would be in the adjacent bin.

 

[James Stephens]

16 minutes ago, Mihaylov said:

Sorry but it's measured phase noise of the LB clock:

 

The measured value is only slightly better than stated.

And, of course, no TCXO compares to OCXO in terms of phase noise. Let me remind you of the real measurements Morion MV197, BG7TBL and AfterDark. Here

 

Hi there, yes I saw that graph too (I'll be diplomatic and just say it is less than impressive) , but it is for one particular measured oscillator and we don't have the graphs for others -  I was just wondering if they might be better ..