Grimm Audio MU1 and MU2 Music Players

[PYP]

@Evo1668, does your ER feed the MU1?  And have you tried the MU1 without it?

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2 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

My start point was a medium-level power cord with an SR Orange in the UK mains plug, and an SR Orange in the MU1. I replaced just the one in the UK mains plug with an SR Purple. 

 

So, what to do with the fuse in the MU1? The level of improvements by the Orange, then Purple, in various situations have been leading me to stop considering the hi-end fuse as just a fuse that does less damage than stock fuses. Instead think of it more as as a (very small) black box, mains conditioner. This I think is the only way to contemplate the higher level QSA fuses. 

If the fuse acts like a filter, I wonder if a better power cable would be a more effective, though perhaps not less expensive, alternative.  And perhaps the kind of component needs to be considered as well.  When I upgraded the power cord on my DAC, the improvement was significant and even-handed (meaning, not boosting any frequency, just let the music speak for itself).  Some designers explain that the power cord filters in both directions.  That makes sense to me.  Not meaning to take this thread off topic...  Given the electronics inside the MU1 (SMPS, etc.) the power cord could make a significant difference.  Perhaps it depends upon how the rest of one's gear handles such noise.

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On 10/12/2021 at 1:46 AM, aangen said:

Oh indeed I am. Had an issue with the internal 8TB Samsung SSD. Cable issue, a connector wasn’t seated properly and the drive is fine. Loading music to it now. It’s a slow process as Grimm makes externally connected drives read only and not mountable externally. The only way to get music to the internal drive is over Ethernet. Slow business.

 

The two transports I was testing, one owned, one borrowed sound really, really good through the MU1. They both sound amazing straight into the DAC. Processed by the FPGA they are noticeably better. But still no match for music sourced from the SSD. It’s like all the gear gets right out of the way and the sound is broad, tall, and really engaging. 

 

Have other owners compared SQ from the internal SSD vs. streamed via Roon?   How about a local library stored elsewhere on the network (not on internal SSD) vs. streamed via Roon.  

[PYP]

4 hours ago, soupcon said:

Interesting, as Grimm stated to me that they designed the mu1 such that there should be no difference between sources as long as the bits are the same. 

That is certainly the ideal.   I would think that the noise the gets picked up from a long run of copper ethernet where the router is in another room, for example, would be different from a short hop from mu1 to DAC on a balanced cable.

 

But as long as the mu1 significantly improves the sound from all sources, the sources don't have to sound identical in order for the mu1 to be successful.  

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2 hours ago, soupcon said:

except that the designers themselves, who aren't engineering hacks, and who therefore should be attuned to issues of such "noise," are saying otherwise. 

I feel very generous today:  if they want to send me an mu1 and a pair of LS1be, I would be happy to give my time to confirm their assertion in the context of 120v, my room and my ears.   

[PYP]

has anyone used dBpoweramp to rip CDs to the internal SSD of the MU1?

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17 minutes ago, aangen said:

I rip all my CDs with dBPoweramp on my computer and transfer copies of the files to the MU1. No issues, works fine. I have over 25,000 tracks I have done this in this way. Are you asking if I could directly rip to the MU1? I don’t see any reason that my computer couldn’t write them directly there either.

Thank you.  Yes, I should have been more specific.  Since I like the feature in dbPoweramp where you can rip to multiple drives simultaneously, I wanted to know if it would work with the MU1 SSD.  Makes sense to me that it would.  Just like any other drive.  

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On 8/17/2020 at 2:24 PM, FredM said:

Nice Grimm Audio company overview by Alpha Audio. In this extended interview (1h50!) various topics are covered, like company history, background of Eelco Grimm and Guido Tent (both lecturers), what’s drives them, design philosophy, network company, new products, ..

 

On the MU1 the power supply, clock circuitry, jitter treatment, importance of up scaling via the FPGA board and the in-house software development are mentioned. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=6YPznUzSRB0&feature=emb_logo

 

The interview is in English (after ~30 seconds), for quick access you can use the timestamps in the description on Youtube.

 

Finally watched this conversation.  It is truly excellent.  One (of many, many) interesting points is that they believe the MU1 doesn't need fancy cables.  

 

Since some reviewers and some folks here have already stated that the AES/EBU cable does matter, I'm wondering whether anyone has done the same experiment with the copper ethernet cable feeding the MU1 and its power cable.  

 

I have found that the Tambaqui DAC is sensitive to both the ethernet cable (if you are using that input) and the power cable.  

[PYP]

7 minutes ago, aangen said:

I have found that cables can and do make a difference. I also believe the world is round for what it’s worth.

Me too, on both parts.  

[PYP]

I'm hoping to have a home demo of the MU1 later this month.  In the meantime, I'm curious about whether folks have ordered the internal SSD and whether that is worth having.  Seems like Grimm Audio believes there is no difference between SSD and streaming in terms of sound quality.   I don't have the need for further storage.

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5 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

I'm not sure if your last sentence means that you never listen to local files.

I would say get at least the smallest 1TB SSD anyway as it gives greater flexibility for the future and much easier to sell in the unlikely event you'll ever want to sell your MU1. SSDs don't cost much these days, so it's a small percentage of the overall price.

 

Thank you.  Seems Grimm now offers 2TB and 8TB choices.  The prices are indeed reasonable.  I typically like to keep my system as simple as possible.  Since I stream most of the time discovering new music via Roon/Qobuz, and my local library is already stored on two different drives (for safety reasons), I am thinking about whether a local drive is needed in my case.   I have plenty of time to think about that while I wait for the demo unit.  

 

Long ago, when I had a Bryston BDP, I listened to the difference between local drives connected to the gear (both USB and hard drive) as well as streaming.  There were differences, but they were small.  

 

Currently, if the streaming file is 24 bit, I engage with the music very easily and don't have a desire for anything more.  Frankly, if I hadn't read this thread and reviews that specifically used the Tambaqui DAC with the MU1, I wouldn't have been interested in upgrades.  

 

I'm truly curious about the effect of the MU1 in my setup and don't know what to expect.  Which is exactly how I like to proceed with a demo.  

[PYP]

19 hours ago, TomAus said:

I haven't tried a USB disk plugged into the back of the MU1, so can't say what the SQ might be like.  I have tried a 64GB USB flash drive plugged into the back - it worked fine, and sounded OK.  But with the differences of different USB controllers, it's likely best to stay away from USB if you can.  Of course it'll always work, but may not sound it's best.

Any comments from owners regarding the SQ using the USB input for storage devices vs. built in SSD and streaming?    

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1 minute ago, FredM said:

For simplicity reasons I would opt for internal storage, especially when it can be installed initially.
 

ps My NAS just died.. so also keen to determine an alternative option (music itself has a good backup).

Thank you, Fred.  After posting, I started to read the MU1 software manual and see that the USB-connected drives are "read only," so not a good alternative for internal storage that can be updated with new music and used for Roon backups.   Too bad since that would make adding storage very simple.  

 

If the MU1 works for me, opting for internal storage does appear to be the best option, as you say.  The price is so reasonable. My only hesitation is that the dealer providing the demo told me he orders units without internal storage.  That would mean that I couldn't try that feature out and will need to ask that he special orders one with storage unless he can install the SSD.  Not big deal.  Just have a few weeks to spend getting ready for the arrival of the demo unit.  You know the proverb regarding idle hands.  🙃

[PYP]

9 hours ago, FredM said:

Review by Hans Beekhuyzen

“But the MU1 offers something more, something magical, something extremely addictive”

Thanks.  Interesting review.  He mentioned that Grimm says any jittery source can be used without consequence. Would have been interesting if he removed the Eno filter and (SOtM?) switch to test the result in his setup.  But it seemed he plugged in the MU1 and fell in love, end of story.   He takes a very rational, low-key approach to reviewing equipment, so it was a surprise to hear him say "magical" and "extremely addictive" in his review (and was it only me or did you see a strange glimmer in his eye when he said that - LOL).  

 

I'll get the chance to hear for myself early next month.  Would be interesting if the updates he spoke about were available then.  I much prefer a computer interface to a control on top of the MU1 (although our 20 pound Tabby_Damper, see avatar, might like it).  The Tambaqui has a fully functional app that is very convenient for settings.  That has become my standard for an equipment interface.  

[PYP]

4 hours ago, Evo1668 said:

The remarkable thing that struck me when I first listened to the MU1 was as if any SQ issue had been completely removed from the Roon/MU1 equation - 

I've read something similar about other servers, including from Taiko Audio and Wadax.  Perhaps it is a combination of the last major update of Roon which uses a different software platform and manufactures knowing how to maximize that programming result.  

[PYP]

12 minutes ago, AnAndGate said:

 I did not think the volume setting via roon interface would be different to setting via the hardware control?

Are they?  

 

Is it correct that if you check the "DIGx" output box on the MU1, then Roon's volume slider is using the MU1's variable FPGA volume control (and that unchecked = fixed, that is full volume = passthrough to DAC/preamp, etc.)?  

[PYP]

5 hours ago, aangen said:

I guess many of you who own an MU1 simply enjoy it daily without a need to consider another similar device. Or wonder if you are missing out on some other piece that might exceed it. No, I just use the thing without wanting whatever else is out there. And it’s so easy. There isn’t much more to say about it hence this lonely thread. It just keeps on pleasing me day after day.

I'm waiting to post some thoughts after mine settles in fully, but last night, while listening to streamed music I hadn't heard before, reminded me of my pre-audiophile days when I simply enjoyed/discovered music/musicians without a thought to how well the setup was presenting a realistic version of live music.   I was just listening to a musical conversation between two talented musicians and paying attention to how they built their album song by song.  That is why I got into this hobby, but sometimes forgot that when the fever was bad.  

[PYP]

When I first purchased the Tambaqui after an in-home audition (January 2019) there were no professional reviews IIRC.   It took a year or so for that to happen and once it did the Tambaqui started to sell well in the U.S. (I assume the progression was different in Europe).  And folks started posting here and elsewhere.

 

That may be the path the MU1 is on.  I haven't seen any U.S. magazine reviews (although perhaps I missed them). I think a nationwide tour, similar to the one Bill Parish at GTT Audio organized for the Tambaqui in the U.S., would launch the MU1 here, but Grimm Audio doesn't have a U.S. distributor (there are four dealers though).   For a start, every Tambaqui owner is a potential customer.  

[PYP]

35 minutes ago, aangen said:

Apparently you missed the John Atkinson review in Stereophile last year.

Ah, yes, I forgot that one.  And Stereophile's Product of the Year Award, as well.  Thanks for the reminder.  

 

I believe it takes a few reviews to get the ball rolling and YouTube reviewers reach a key audience as well.   This is just speculation on my part to explain why such a great component isn't getting more attention in the U.S.  Perhaps those who generally know of Grimm think of it as a pro-audio company (I did).  

[PYP]

@TheAttorney the audience for this is broader than Grimm MU1 users.  It deserves it own thread.  

 

This reminds me of similar tweaks to the Logitech Touch, except those were done via the command line. The aim was better sound quality.

 

Eventually, there was a manual with screenshots, which temporarily (a factory re-set would reverse them) and selectively removed functions.  The tweaks were cumulative.   From memory, the biggest change in sound quality resulted from turning off the wifi and using a wired ethernet connection instead.   

 

But, in that case, the hardware was as much a limitation as the software.  Not the situation with the MU1.

 

 

[PYP]

2 minutes ago, soupcon said:

i'm pretty sure Grimm is working on an alternative, though rudimentary, player. I think that will present a moment of truth re Roon's "inherent" sound. 

It seems that other server manufacturers like Taiko and Wadax have added software filters (? not sure that is correct) to improve the sound of Roon.  

 

One question is whether Grimm's rudimentary player will provide the same integration of Qobuz and the use of something like Roon Radio.  I'm not the only one who discovers new music this way.  

[PYP]

I've heard that a web interface for the MU1 will be released with the next software update.  

 

Just curious what was upstream of the MU1 and whether you used an AES/EBU cable to connect to your DAC....

[PYP]

40 minutes ago, soupcon said:

Although Bruno Putzeys might in my book qualify as a Patron Saint of audio....

 

Agreed.  He was with Grimm Audio in the early days helping design their speaker, Hypex (its DIY side made innovative technology affordable), Mola Mola (amps, DAC, preamp), Kii, Purifi Audio.  Quite a list and all before his 50th birthday.  

[PYP]

10 minutes ago, soupcon said:

I'm wishing the Grimm had an alternate player such as was the case with the DCS. 

Apparently Grimm is working on that.  The following was posted by a U.S. Grimm dealer on WBF:  "...there is an update coming out in 2022 that allows it [MU1] to be used with other controller software. I assume that means they will be adding UpnP/DLNA support."

[PYP]

1 hour ago, soupcon said:

Has anyone upgraded to 1.4?

Yes.  No issues.   Took about 10 minutes or so.  

 

I like the new web interface (as shown above).  Since I don't need the display and prefer as few lights/screens/etc., I set the Display Auto Dim.    

 

This must be a huge interface improvement for folks who use the LS 1.