The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[HumanMedia]

Many here have powered the etherRegen with an UpTone JS-2 and many others have powered it with a Farad3. Have any compared the two and found that one is better than the other for this application?

 

 

[HumanMedia]

I currently have the EtherRegen and upstream router and one circuit and the downstream UltraRendu and DAC on another circuit on a balanced power transformer.

 

If I were to go from the upstream router via an optical connection into the etherRegen, could this change which circuit the EtherRegen should be placed on? With an optical input, could it be better moving the EtherRegen to the same circuit as UltraRendu and DAC?

 

Also, whilst optical is an electrical disconnection from upstream, the optical transceivers must generate noise/RFI of their own, so should the EtherRegen be treated differently when using the optical input?  Greater distancing from other components? Different grounding strategy?

 

Any suggestions, advice or experiences appreciated.

[HumanMedia]

11 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

With the A side connection via optical there is no inherent reason why either power connection should make a difference.  IF it is easy to do so I would still keep the ER on a different circuit than the uR or DAC, just in case there is some small interaction between power supplies. The ER power supply connects to the A side so it seems to make sense to keep it on the same circuit as what is driving it IF it is easy to do so.

 

If you want to put what is driving the A side 200 feet away and have the ER next to the uR, then go ahead and power the ER from the same circuit. But if you have both circuits near where you want to put the ER, then go ahead and put the ER on the the circuit not powering the uR.

 

 

Thanks for this. So despite the optical connection being on the same physical side as the B-Side output, it is electrically actually on the A-Side also? So if I use optical in, I keep my Ethernet output plugged into the B-side? (sorry if this was in the manual)

[HumanMedia]

8 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

 

Thanks for this. So despite the optical connection being on the same physical side as the B-Side output, it is electrically actually on the A-Side also? So if I use optical in, I keep my Ethernet output plugged into the B-side? (sorry if this was in the manual)

So SFP port IS on A-Side physically AND electrically as well.

[HumanMedia]

I have received a 3m cable and single mode SFP transceivers to optically connect a Sonore opticalModule to the etherRegen.

The SFP are the single mode PlanetTech (20KM range), no attenuators. All devices have quality linear power supplies.

 

All functions fine and I have had it running for a week now.

 

Only issue is that this optical connection sounds worse than a CAT6a ethernet connection from the same router. Slightly pushed, unnatural high frequencies. I've swapped back and forth a few times and optical in my system is consistently worse.

 

I know others have tried this exact setup without any issues, with a noticeable improvement over wired ethernet.

 

Has anyone else experienced this? or have suggestion to what is wrong and how this could be fixed?

 

The only thing I can think of is that I need to add attenuators to the cable, maybe 5db to 10db. however multiple others have found that this is not an issue with the PlanetTechs.

 

I am at my wits end! Help me brains-trust!

[HumanMedia]

4 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

I have 10m single mode combined with (I believe) the same Planet SFP's without attenuators and absolutely prefer this to copper.  I cannot imagine that 3m vs. 10m makes a difference. Which optical cable do you use? I use this (OS2) one: https://www.conrad.nl/p/telegartner-l00875a0034-glasvezel-aansluitkabel-1x-lc-stekker-1x-lc-stekker-9125-singlemode-os2-1000-m-1542091

 

 

 

I am using this cable 3m,

https://www.fs.com/au/products/68296.html

[HumanMedia]

9 minutes ago, PYP said:

 

Agree.  Give it another week so that you know this isn't a variable.  

I actually had the opticalModule plugged in and turned on (but without the SFP) for a week prior to this week with the SFP and cable.

 

Separate power supply for opticalModule (2.2A CIAudio supply) and the etherRegen (Farad3, 7V). Farad is apparently grounded but with a resistor to ground (to attenuate high frequency ground loops?).

 

 

[HumanMedia]

My experience was just like Heckyman but with the opticalModule and PlanetTech SFP. Definitely some positives in the mid range and with spatiality which at first seemed alluring but the slight harsh treble outweighed that after a week. 
 

Next steps, burn the SFP in for another week, get some attenuators to lower the receive strength to be closer to the midrange of receive sensitivity.

 

I do wonder if the RFI generated by those SFP we let into the walled garden in order to keep electrical noise out, is actually worse for some systems, than the electrical noise kept out. Especially higher-energy single mode long-range SFP...

 

Swapped them around again last night, optical harsh and edgy in the highs, CAT6 more organic and natural.

Thanks for your suggestions people, keep them coming, really want to get to the bottom of this.

 

[HumanMedia]

21 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

In the EtherRegen white paper, John had discussed "threshold jitter".  I wonder if noise on the ground plane might impact SFP performance on consumer FMCs, where as the opticalModule (and ER) are designed to handle this correctly.

 

 

I think I remember reading in one of the OpticalRendu threads, that John said something about implementing improvements to the way SFP noise was handled (in the OpticalRendu). Its a vague memory and it might have even been before the etherRegen was released so it may already be in the etherRegen.

 

In rereading some of the older posts about optical connections there were quite a few people saying that the sound was a little harsh until they added optical attenuators. However people also reported that the PlanetTech SFP didn't need them.

 

I have been talking to an optical networking guy, who does solely optical networking for a living and he had this to say. He said that these days to make things simpler parts wise they only do single mode installations even for short runs, and use attenuators.  He uses a meter to take readings then calculates which value attenuator to use. For 20km strength and greater they always use attenuators. In the absence of a signal strength reading he can also do calculations from the spec sheet to give a really rough approximate of what attenuator to use. For the PlanetTech he said that you probably wouldnt get into a situation where you could burn the receivers out but still recommended a 5db attenuator as a starting point.

 

Maybe this is it? I know someone - was it you kennyb123?, mentioned that attenuators on the PlanetTech dulled the sound. Do you still feel this way? have you revisited attenuators? And could dulling actually be the removal of artificial 'sharpness'?

 

 

 

 

[HumanMedia]

2 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

To throw in a few other perspectives: when going from copper to fiber with opticalModule + PlanetTech's in my system and to my ears SQ became less harsh and edgy and more natural. 

 

Thats exactly what I was expecting based on multiple experiences by others. But Im experiencing the exact opposite.

It's a real head scratcher.

 

However everyone else seem to be using a longer fibre cable than I am, usually 5-10m. But does this really matter for devices that are designed to go 20km? What is a couple of meters? Or my SFPs are a new model that are different? or they change considerably in burn-in?

 

Multiple people report the opticalModule changing with burn-in, but mine has been plugged in for two weeks (one week longer than the SFPs). But is it actually the SFP burning in? most probably on the receive end plugged into the EtherRegen?

 

I have put the optical connection back in the system with some hefty DSD256 albums on repeat to see if more burn-in helps. I will also track down some attenuators but this will take at least two weeks to arrive locally. But if anyone else can try them in the meantime I would love to know if they make any difference.

[HumanMedia]

7 hours ago, PYP said:

I never had harsh highs, but it took a month for the highs to sound balanced/integrated with the mids/lows.  Of course, there is no typical system and YMWV.   My new gear always seems to take a long time to settle in.  

Even though I also experience a burn-in or settling-in with most stuff in the audio chain, when I add a new type of component or device, for some reason I assume there won’t be any and then I am surprised when there is. Even the etherRegen took a good 250 hours before the highs sounded natural to me.
 

I guess SFP could be the same and will definitely give them more time.

[HumanMedia]

19 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

I might have missed it but how are you powering the oM?

 

CI Audio 2.A 5V supply.

 

Listening to the system today and there is a noticeable change in the high end. At 7 days no change, now at 10 days and starting to change. Will report back in a couple of days.

[HumanMedia]

15 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Yup that was me who reported that I didn't like what attenuators did to the sound of those SFPs.   I've moved on to Finisar SFPs as I found these even more neutral that the Planet Tech SFPs.  

 

There are two different models of Finisar SFPs that some here have preferred.  The FTLF1324P2BTL was one that Emile of Taiko had recommended for use with the ER.  It's no longer in production but can be found on eBay.  The current version of that is the FTLF1318P3BT, which @auricgoldfingerpreferred.  I recently picked up a pair of these on eBay and have been using them in place of the FTLF1324P2BTL.  I have yet to take the time to compare the two, but I also haven't heard anything that struck me as different between the two.   It will take some effort to tease out differences.  Maybe I can try to finally get around to tackling that this week.

Very interesting, those two models are also lower range products (4km -10km). Lower range, lower power, lower noise?

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of them especially compared to the PlanetTechs and other SFPs.

 

BTW after 10 days now the PlanetTechs are sounding different...

[HumanMedia]

On 11/18/2020 at 10:26 PM, HumanMedia said:

Very interesting, those two models are also lower range products (4km -10km). Lower range, lower power, lower noise?

Looking forward to hearing your impressions of them especially compared to the PlanetTechs and other SFPs.

 

BTW after 10 days now the PlanetTechs are sounding different...

Now at around 15 days burn in of the PlanetTech SFP. Yes SFP really do need a good burn in. They have improved considerably. The high end metallic ansound has gone and the entire midrange has a wonderful clarity. The only real negative is a slightly accentuated lower treble. It sounds clean but just a bit too elevated in the upper midrange and lower treble.

 

Quoting Chris from the ‘novel way of...’ thread who has tried ‘many dozens’ of SFP “I was searching for many months and testing extensive a lot of SFPs and changes between them were very big .Each had a strong character in some aspects but was lacking in the others.”

 

Now the use of commercial networking SFP seems to me to be the weakness of using optical connections in audio systems. We have quality low noise, reclocked switches with SFP connections, etherRegens, opticalRendus and opticalModules. All wonderful BUT then we put noisy commercial grade SFPs right inside them next to all of that low noise precisely clocked circuitry.

 

Which got me thinking, dreaming actually, of a company who plugs this Achilles heel and creates an audio-grade low noise SFP to compliment the rest of our quality networking chain. Just as I was waking from this dream of unboxing such a device, I noticed that the logo on the box was “UpTone Audio”. @Superdad was this a dream, or a vision of the near future? Please tell me it was true? An audio quality UpTone Audio SFP? Please?

[HumanMedia]

On 12/23/2020 at 3:11 AM, fuzzypoodle said:

Hi @JohnSwenson,

 

Can you please suggest the optimal application of Uptone power supplies to the following gear:

 

SotM 10G Switch -> Etherregen -> Auralic G2 Streamer (AC)-> ISOregen -> M-scaler -> Opto_DX (batteries) -> Hugo TT2 DAC.

 

Currently JS-2 powers HMS and Hugo TT2.  ISOregen by LPS-1.2.  One LPS on January order. 

 

Thanks in advance !

My suggestion is to immediately stop sharing the JS-2 between the HMS and TT2 as that completely bypasses the Opto DX. Also both of the Chord HMS and TT2 draw well above 1A at times so they really shouldn’t be run from an LPS.

 

I am biased but my ideal UpTone Power supply implementation would be a separate JS-2 on everything. And get one of the custom 15v JS-2 (ask SuperDad about this) for the HMS which for some reason sounds better with 15v. The TT2 is less picky with voltage as it is used to change its internal supercapacitor supply, but 15v wouldn’t hurt here either.

To save space and money, I guess ypu could use LPS 1.2 on the EtherRegen and ISORegen. 

 

 

 

[HumanMedia]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:54 PM, TwinPeak said:

After two weeks using alternative 1, I reconnected network components to alternative 2.
In this configuration the opticalModule Deluxe works as a mere slave in converting an ethernet signal to optical for the opticalRendu. Wow, a huge change. The holographic stage image was in place again, and better voice definition and bass and overall impression.

 

In my humble opinion, using the full power of two etherRegen's in A > B configuration is way better than going through B > A setup at any point.

 

Fascinating stuff!

 

I have a similar setup but with only one eR and to keep thing simpler, my OpticalModule isn’t even in the chain anymore.

So my current setup is: router - ethernet - B-EtherRegen-A - optical - opticalRendu

 

I wonder if I would get an improvement following your lead and reconfiguring to:

 

router - ethernet - A-EtherRegen-B - ethernet - OpticalModule - optical - opticalRendu

Any thoughts?