HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[StreamFidelity]

20 hours ago, JTS said:

 

No idea. It's an active production machine I spent some time on balancing, so I'm not going to test this. It was overclocked with production in mind - as a side benefit it runs HQPlayer EC modulators with any of the filters.

 

There are likely other users running stock 9900K processors that could test this. I think there is someone on the main HQPlayer thread running one.

 

@k6davis wrote that Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz can handle all EC modulators with DSD 256 without any overclocking.

So I tried the same thing with my Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.60GHz. Unfortunately without success. In my system, 4GHz overclocking is required for fluent listening. I mean, Miska also said that 4GHz is the minimum.

 

 

My system:

Streacom FC9 Alpha (Black) - Desktop - micro ATX

Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3,6GHz - 5,0GHz OctaCore - HD Graphics 630

ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene

Corsair Dominator Platinum - DDR4 - 16 GB

2 Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB, M.2

JCAT USB Card FEMTO

JCAT NET Card FEMTO

HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply (LPS) Black

HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX 

[StreamFidelity]

50 minutes ago, JTS said:

what cooler are you using?

 

Your system values are great! My congratulations. 🍻

 

For general considerations, I reject active fans. I run a fanless PC and have recently invested in more passive cooling elements. 😉

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

58 minutes ago, k6davis said:

It's designed to run using Intel's "Turbo Boost", which automatically and safely increases the speed of the i7-9700K to up to 4.9Ghz as needed. 

 

Thank you for the clarification. I already started to doubt myself. 😂

 

So you run your PC with fan?

[StreamFidelity]

16 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Does it really improve the sound?

 

Every system has its advantages and disadvantages. Fanless systems are limited in their performance, systems with active cooling may be louder. Whereby I do not just refer to the sounds. But also on electromagnetic interference.

The right system depends on the purpose. 😊

[StreamFidelity]

16 hours ago, rando said:

How do you feel about inactive fans?  

 

Would something new. 🤣

[StreamFidelity]

10 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

In your BIOS, have you selected “fanless” option?

 

What if you tell the BIOS you have a fan, so turbo boost is enabled?

 

If you have properly installed sufficient CPU passive cooling, there shouldn’t be any concern with allowing turbo-boost? Or is this the concern?

 

 

 

Yes in BIOS I have disabled the monitoring of the fan, otherwise comes at boot time every time an error message.

 

Turbo Boost I use without fan. No problem. The power supply is no problem at all. But after some time I come with the new EC modulators with DSD 256 in the critical temperature range. The CPU then regulates down and at least source material from 192kHz is no longer played smoothly. I can live with that, but I did not want to leave the disadvantages unmentioned.

 

The other modulators with DSD 512 are unproblematic in my fanless system.

[StreamFidelity]

16 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Cooling: Heatpipe Direct Touch 4 Pipes – Recommended CPU TDP 65W, Max TDP 95W

 

That's a good point. Now the case should fit into my hi-fi rack, so I chose:

Streacom FC9 Alpha (Black) - Desktop - micro ATX

[StreamFidelity]

3 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

But may not fit in your rack, it's very big

😊That's right

[StreamFidelity]

43 minutes ago, rando said:

Live with replacing a scorched socket, bursting caps, and a host of other problems that grow exceedingly probable under these conditions.  Critical here really does mean critical, as in STOP.  

 

What do you mean, what stress gamers expect their systems? That's why I choose a gaming board:

 

ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene

 

That can endure a lot. Rotating fans are definitely not for me. Anyone can see that as he wants. 😉

[StreamFidelity]

54 minutes ago, maya said:

May I know what passive cooling system you are using, where to buy , it's  really cool !

 

Many thanks.

it is the https://streacom.com/products/fc9-alpha-fanless-chassis/. The cooling elements are included. However, cirrus7 has built it for me. The cables Neotech UPOCC 7N I have retrofitted from https://www.ghentaudio.com.

 

3 hours ago, k6davis said:

If anyone else can report that it really does all they say it does, or that they've found a passively cooled HQP EC solution, I might consider giving it a try at some point.

 

And now comes a surprise. With AMSDM7 + DSD 512 there are no problems with passive cooling. ASDM7EC + DSD 256 can also be played smoothly, but with the temperature I come with over 90 ° C (194 ° F) to the limit. I've been thinking about something written in this thread and I opted for a hybrid solution. Today I installed the case fan SILENT WINGS 3. It is very big with 140mm, but it rotates slowly. Very low noise level 15.5 dB (A). It can be controlled via PWM.

 

In diagram on the left I have specified a target curve. Up to 65 ° C the fan is off. This is sufficient for normal operation AMSDM7 + DSD 512. The fan starts with 200 rpm for the new EC modulators. The revolutions increase to 400 rpm up to 80 ° C. Inaudible! With ASDM7EC + DSD 256 I reach a maximum of 75 ° C. Now everything is OK.

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

8 hours ago, rando said:

Sounds like you broke through to 512 at ASDM7EC.  Quite the accomplishment!

 

Is the Silent Wings 3 mounted as case fan(?) and as intake or exhaust?  

 

AMSDM7 + DSD 512 or ASDM7EC + DSD 256 😉

 

Silent Wings 3 mounted as case fan and as exhaust above on the case ceiling. It's very big, but silent. 

[StreamFidelity]

5 minutes ago, maya said:

Can Cirrus do  customized order fitting  for your Streacom chassis ?

 

Yes cirrus7 manufactures the components according to customer requirements. Write to Felix Engemann, he is very competent and obliging: [email protected]

[StreamFidelity]

30 minutes ago, k6davis said:

I'd always assumed that a GPU was mandatory to run the demanding xtr filters - especially combined with the new EC modulators. This recent post from @Ales Prochazka showed me that my assumption was incorrect. 

 

I agree. For EC modulators, no GPU is required.

 

30 minutes ago, k6davis said:

I've run some additional tests and I'm even more impressed with the i7-9700K than I was before. With no overclocking, no special cooling, no GPU, and even with Roon running simultaneously, it's capable of anything I can throw at it - without any strain at all.

 

I don't agree with it. Even if you have not set overcloking in BIOS, you are running overclocking in software: instead of 3.6 GHz it is 4.6 GHz. 😉

[StreamFidelity]

53 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Has anybody gotten PCM 24-192 => ASDM7EC x DSD256 x 48 working on HQP OS? Looking forward to your results

 

I have booted HQPlayer OS directly from USB stick and do not even get 16Bit 44.1kHz with ASDM7EC stutter free to run.

I think Windows 10 Pro is better than many believe. In any case, it seems to have a better grip on the utilization of the cores.

[StreamFidelity]

14 hours ago, sledwards said:

The procedure is valid all the way up to adding the filters to Roon vs HQPlayer. I do prefer Jussi's implementation over that in Roon.  If I were to give one piece of advice about convolution, it would the same as many have stated before: "You can't beat a properly treated room". With that said, convolution, when used in moderation can lead to worthwhile audible improvements

 

I fully agree. I'm using Acourate for the generation of convolution files.

Review: 

 

Important to know: Not only the room but also the speakers (time accuracy) are corrected.

 

I can easily run HQPlayer Convolution without GPU! I'm using Intel Core i9-9900K.

[StreamFidelity]

On 8/18/2019 at 11:41 PM, Ales Prochazka said:

ASUS MultiCore Enhancement ---> DISABLE - Enforce All Limits

 

Many thanks! I found an interisting option on my board (ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene):

 

Source: hw-journal.de

 

So I tried it:
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement ---> ENABLED - Remove All limits
It's very powerfull! 

 

1. poly-sinc-ext2 + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 44.1kHz ---> SDM256 is stable working without fan!

 

2. closed-form + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 44.1kHz ---> SDM256 is stable working without fan!

 

3.  poly-sinc-xtr-mp + ASDM7EC + convolution ON: PCM 44.1kHz ---> SDM256 is stable working with a low rotate fan!

 

[StreamFidelity]

16 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Does it stay below 80 deg C, all the time? If you leave it playing for 2 hours?

 

You still have it in the fanless case, yes? So in addition to fan cooling, still have passive cooling via fanless case also yes?

 

It stayed below 80 °C for round about 1 hour. Than I changed filter. poly-sinc-xtr-mp is not my favorite. HQplayer is working in my passive cooling System with a case fan (140mm).

[StreamFidelity]

2 hours ago, Xoverman said:

Greetings from Germany

 

Greetings from Berlin 😉

 

It seems like HQPlayer often only uses half of the cores. My i9-9900k using arround 8 out of 16 (virtual) cores. It also makes a difference whether multicore was grayed or blackened.

 

 

Do you use hyperthreading?

 

The EC modulators would require an 8GHz core for DSD 512. So it is not possible for nobody.

[StreamFidelity]

3 hours ago, rettib2001 said:

Given the passive nature of the cooling is the lower tdp cpu a safer bet or would there be too much of a hit in performance? 

 

Look for better passive cooling on soldered CPUs: Solder Thermal Interface Material (STIM), a solder material for thermal surfaces. For example, the i9-9900K (TDP 95W) has STIM, i9-9900 (TDP 65W) not.

[StreamFidelity]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

iMac with i9-9900K works fine for running ASDM7EC to DSD256. But down side is that it sounds like hair dryer when doing so.

 

That's why a fanless Audio PC is a good thing. This can also be done well with an Intel i9-9900K. 😉

[StreamFidelity]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

It would be interesting to see such passive cooled, with 1000W PSU, overclocked GeForce RTX2080Ti and CPU with >120W TDP.

 

It's true. I don't see passive cooling in this configuration either. In my fanless Audio PC DSD 512 is maximum possible. But I can easily run ASDM7EC with DSD 256x48 and convolution filter.

 

1 hour ago, Miska said:

But OTOH, one can house noisy HQPlayer server in an air conditioned machine room and just have a fanless NAA in the listening space.

 

The problem of moving parts of a fan with electromagnetic fields remains. 😉

[StreamFidelity]

@fred_com Nice cases! Here are other alternatives:

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

If you are interested: I have described here many BIOS settings which allow the operation of the EC modulators without problems.

 

On 3/3/2020 at 3:27 PM, StreamFidelity said:

2.1 BIOS

 

BIOS stands for "basic input / output system" and is the firmware on the mainboards. You can access the BIOS settings by clicking the F2 key several times during booting. Screenshots are taken on ASUS boards with the F12 key and e.g. B. stored on a USB stick. There are really a lot of setting options. Below I describe the most important ones I use.

 

2.1.1 BIOS update

 

Before the BIOS configuration and installation of the operating system, the latest BIOS version should be loaded in any case. There are different methods. I like to use the internet connection because it is very straightforward.

 

 

All BIOS settings are lost during the update. At least with this board. Anyone who has already made settings is well advised to save these settings on the USB stick.

 

 

2.1.2 RAM settings

 

The XMP II profile is recommended for system-stable operation. This setting reads out the profile in RAM and applies it.

 

 

2.1.3 CPU clock frequency

 

The most important setting for high performance concerns the clock frequency of the CPU. The Intel Core i9-9900K has a base clock of 3.6GHz. Not enough for the EC modulators of the HQPlayer. At least 4GHz on 3-4 cores are required. The CPU has 8 cores. I experimented with different settings. For example, clocking the first cores higher than the following ones. I did not like it. I stayed with the simple configuration: all cores on 4.1GHz.

 

 

2.1.4 Hyperthreading

 

If the HQPlayer loads complex filters, it will occupy all cores with 100%. To prevent the system from freezing, hyperthreading should be activated. 16 logical processors are then made available. As a result, the computing load can be better distributed.

 

2.1.5 Energy management

 

I am not describing settings for climate protection, but for increasing audiophile PC operation. The rule of thumb is to deactivate all energy saving options! The clock frequency should remain stable at 4.1GHz and not be reduced. The result would otherwise be z. B. Dropouts when playing the music. Deactivating the CPU C-states prevents (among other settings) switching back the clock frequency.

 

 

2.1.6 Temperature development

 

One of the main problems, especially with a passively cooled system, is the temperature development. By reducing the voltage, excessive temperature development can be avoided. However, if the voltage is set too low, the system freezes. The CPU is cooled very well. I therefore set the setting for BLCK Aware Adaptive Voltage to Enabled without fine adjustment.

 

 

In addition, I have the power consumption at 120W with max. 160W limited.

 

 

The CPU i9-9900K can up to max. 100 °C operated. Way to high. I have a max. Temperature set at 95 °C.

 

 

2.1.7 Deactivate functions that are not required

 

Basically, all functions of the board that are not required must be switched off. This saves electricity and promotes trouble-free

operation. In any case, I prefer M.2 SSDs and therefore do not need the SATA controller. That is also one of the reasons why I did not try RAID 0, because otherwise I could not have deactivated SATA.

 

 

I was able to switch off HD audio on this board without any problems. It seems that this also bypasses the problems on Windows. With a digital volume control like with the HQPlayer you have to switch off the Windows system sounds, which can otherwise be quite loud.

 

 

I have deactivated Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

 

 

There are countless USB ports on the board. I only need three: for keyboard, mouse and USB stick. The assignments can be found in the mainboard manual. The JCAT USB Card Femto uses a PCIe connection and is not affected by these settings.

 

 

2.18 Settings for fanless operation

 

It is very important to deactivate the monitoring of fans or water pumps. Otherwise the system always shows an error message and does not start up.

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

29 minutes ago, jabbr said:

This is entirely opposite to what I’ve found. What so-called complex filters are you using and what evidence do you can that they load all 8 cores at 100%?

 

A complex filter is for example poly-sinc-long-lp. Its sounds very good. As you can see in the Task Manager below, all physical cores are loaded. The other eight (logical) cores prevent the system from freezing.

[StreamFidelity]

35 minutes ago, jabbr said:

There are 2 cores running HQPlayer ASDM7EC ... these cores are running at 3.9 Ghz (so 4 "Processors") and a third core is running another program at 4.5 Ghz / 50% ... the rest of the cores are sitting idle at 1.2 Ghz.

 

I consider this setting to be suboptimal. it leads to the fact that different clock frequencies are permanently assigned to the cores. This leads to a restless sound in my ears. It is better to set all cores to the same clock frequency. That is among other things the reason to optimize the BIOS. 😉