Hqplayer: best NAA with best sound quality

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Markus8 said:

I hope I am right but you can get the best out of Holo Red with NAA when going AES/EBU also - if this is appropriate for you, depending on the device connected. 

 

That limits output resolution to max 192/24 PCM or DSD64. Which is not what would be used in most cases...

 

There are few cases where such is useful, for example with Devialet, or certain DSP based active loudspeakers. For such cases, another great NAA option is Aqua LinQ.

 

[Kalpesh]

7 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That limits output resolution to max 192/24 PCM or DSD64. Which is not what would be used in most cases...

 

There are few cases where such is useful, for example with Devialet, or certain DSP based active loudspeakers. For such cases, another great NAA option is Aqua LinQ.

 

I'm very happy with my decades old active speakers (Albatros VI) that keep revealing any change upstream, be it modulator, filter or streamer, but if I was to replace them by the new top of line, La Sphere, I'd have to accept that every signal in the end is PCM 96 K processed. That's itching. I think that the first version had 48 processor and, if I recall well, that Cabasse claimed that anyway it yet achieved way better active filtering than what could be dreamt of with analog filtering.

bottom line : do you concur that 96 dsp active should beat DSD 512 choked by analog active filtering at the final, loudspeaker, stage?

[Markus8]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

That limits output resolution to max 192/24 PCM or DSD64. Which is not what would be used in most cases...

 

There are few cases where such is useful, for example with Devialet, or certain DSP based active loudspeakers. For such cases, another great NAA option is Aqua LinQ.

 

Ah I see!! 
And thank you very much for the pointer to the Aqua LinQ - this seems to be an even total different level than the Holo Red. 

[Miska]

10 hours ago, Kalpesh said:

bottom line : do you concur that 96 dsp active should beat DSD 512 choked by analog active filtering at the final, loudspeaker, stage?

 

No, I'm not fan of such approach. But I understand if someone uses such.

 

[Kalpesh]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

No, I'm not fan of such approach. But I understand if someone uses such.

 

thank you ; whenever you have time I'm sure it will be fascinating to read you elaborating

[Kalpesh]

3 hours ago, Markus8 said:

Ah I see!! 
And thank you very much for the pointer to the Aqua LinQ - this seems to be an even total different level than the Holo Red. 

different level of price for sure ; as of difference in sq I can't tell but I could apply attached comments to the Red : https://www.aquahifi.com/file/reviews/Fidelity_EN_F57_LinQ.pdf

Actually it's almost verbatim my comments above

[Markus8]

Thanks. Though especially when both operate in NAA mode it would be very interesting how they compare as price wise the difference is huge. 

[Markus8]

@Miska When will Holo Red be updated? https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/

[Miska]

12 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

@Miska When will Holo Red be updated? https://www.signalyst.eu/bins/naa/images/

 

Already at the time you wrote it... Please refresh the page! Browsers tend to cache these tiny index pages.

 

[timeslip]

21 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Already at the time you wrote it... Please refresh the page! Browsers tend to cache these tiny index pages.

 

Stupid question, but what is the advantage of your image over the Holo one that already has NAA capabilities?

[Miska]

1 hour ago, timeslip said:

Stupid question, but what is the advantage of your image over the Holo one that already has NAA capabilities?

 

Some additional DSD driver support for some DACs. And minimal OS built just for NAA capabilities and doesn't have anything else. 

I have not tried of the stock one supports 1.5M PCM and DSD1024 through the USB output? But at least NAA OS does.

 

And if you like and don't need more than basic PCM upsampling, you can run HQPlayer OS there too with HQPlayer Embedded.

 

But in any case it is very easy and simple to have another microSD card with NAA OS if you want to try it out. And you can choose which one you prefer. Just remember to power down the device before swapping microSD cards.

 

Strength of the Holo Red is that you can choose!

[timeslip]

@Miska

 

While I have your attention... I have a delay to start/stop track when streaming from Roon -> HQP -> NAA.  Is there anything I can change to reduce that delay or eliminate it completely?

[Miska]

36 minutes ago, timeslip said:

While I have your attention... I have a delay to start/stop track when streaming from Roon -> HQP -> NAA.  Is there anything I can change to reduce that delay or eliminate it completely?

 

Which filter are you using? Any convolution?

 

You can use the short buffer option. The minimal delay feature doesn't work yet over NAA, since it will need support from the NAA side and that is still work in progress.

 

[timeslip]

9 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Which filter are you using? Any convolution?

 

You can use the short buffer option. The minimal delay feature doesn't work yet over NAA, since it will need support from the NAA side and that is still work in progress.

 

 

Filter: Sinc-L

 

I tried short buff with default and 5ms, but it takes ~10s to play or stop.

 

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, timeslip said:

Filter: Sinc-L

 

I tried short buff with default and 5ms, but it takes ~10s to play or stop.

 

Try for example poly-sinc-gauss-long and the delay is much shorter.

 

[Markus8]

9 hours ago, Miska said:

And if you like and don't need more than basic PCM upsampling, you can run HQPlayer OS there too with HQPlayer Embedded.

What is the latest and suitable version / download for the Holo Red?

[Miska]

3 hours ago, Markus8 said:

What is the latest and suitable version / download for the Holo Red?

 

The latest one that has "raspberrypi4-holored" in the file name.

 

[Markus8]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:06 PM, Miska said:

 

The latest one that has "raspberrypi4-holored" in the file name.

 

Having flashed everything fine and it also shows up in Roon - working. Though it outputs this (which I think is default)

which doesn’t work with my AES/EBU connected Devialet. 
trying to access the IP address doesn’t work. Isn’t there a web frontend running? (hqplayer.local:8088 doesn't work) How do I adjust the settings to just Upsample to 192/24 PCM?

 

[Miska]

22 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

which doesn’t work with my AES/EBU connected Devialet. 

 

If you have Red's USB connected somewhere, you'll see two devices there, the one connected to USB and another one that is Red's internal DDC. If you connect to the DDC one, you can get output to AES/EBU. Note that maximum output rate through AES and S/PDIF is 192k, so the 352.8k in your screenshot won't output anything.

 

Here, on "naa-12c2a06d" the one called "MODEL_NAME" is TEAC UD-701N. And the one highlighted, called "Holo Audio UAC2.0 Gen2" is the Red's built-in DDC.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

trying to access the IP address doesn’t work. Isn’t there a web frontend running? (hqplayer.local:8088 doesn't work) How do I adjust the settings to just Upsample to 192/24 PCM?

 

No, NAA OS is just output endpoint for HQPlayer. All the output device settings and everything else is in HQPlayer.

 

[Markus8]

Hm, somehow it worked out sometime later :-D So got things working. 
Just two questions: When I want material that is lower than 192/24 upsampled to that should I leave:
 

 

that way or set Samplerate to 192000 ? What filter would be suggested for my requirement (with the Devialet amp ) ?
The convolution feature I would like to use too. FocusFidelity Designer creates a zip files of all wav files. Can I upload them there (as it's done in Roon) via the web interface too?

 

 

[Miska]

2 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

Hm, somehow it worked out sometime later :-D So got things working. 

 

OK, so you are on HQPlayer OS, not on NAA OS. Was a bit confusing from the earlier discussion and topic of the thread...

 

2 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

Just two questions: When I want material that is lower than 192/24 upsampled to that should I leave:
 

 

If you want 192k output, set the samplerate to 192k and it'll keep it always.

 

Also remember to set "DAC Bits" to 24!

 

2 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

What filter would be suggested for my requirement (with the Devialet amp ) ?

 

Those filters are very good. But if you like to adjust for your own preferences, check the Help-page (near top right corner of the /config page). There's some rough guidance.

 

2 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

The convolution feature I would like to use too. FocusFidelity Designer creates a zip files of all wav files. Can I upload them there (as it's done in Roon) via the web interface too?

 

Yes, you can use either the /convolution page, or the /matrix page. Latter one is more flexible if you want to do advanced things.

 

[Markus8]

5 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

If you have Red's USB connected somewhere, you'll see two devices there, the one connected to USB and another one that is Red's internal DDC. If you connect to the DDC one, you can get output to AES/EBU. Note that maximum output rate through AES and S/PDIF is 192k, so the 352.8k in your screenshot won't output anything.

 

Here, on "naa-12c2a06d" the one called "MODEL_NAME" is TEAC UD-701N. And the one highlighted, called "Holo Audio UAC2.0 Gen2" is the Red's built-in DDC.

No, NAA OS is just output endpoint for HQPlayer. All the output device settings and everything else is in HQPlayer.

 

I haven't connected the Red via USB at all. Just Ethernet (from switch) and AES/EBU to Devialet are connected.

Having the HQPlayer Embedded installed on the MicroSD things work now. But I still wonder if the setup is correct as it says here:

So I am using ALSA obviously. Though later it says:

 

which is a bit confusing as I have no USB connected at all to the Red.

 

[Markus8]

24 minutes ago, Miska said:

Yes, you can use either the /convolution page, or the /matrix page. Latter one is more flexible if you want to do advanced things.

 

Thanks for your help in the other points! I keep progressing :-D Just I don't find where I can upload the zip file with the convolution filters? Could you help me out with that?

 

And one more question came up 😬

I am currently using the ALSA output, would it be better for sound quality to set the Backend to "Network Audio" ?

 

[Apollo]

25 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

33 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I haven't connected the Red via USB at all. Just Ethernet (from switch) and AES/EBU to Devialet are connected.

 

25 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

I haven't connected the Red via USB at all. Just Ethernet (from switch) and AES/EBU to Devialet are connected.

Having the HQPlayer Embedded installed on the MicroSD things work now. But I still wonder if the setup is correct as it says here:

So I am using ALSA obviously. Though later it says:

 

which is a bit confusing as I have no USB connected at all to the Red.

 

You should set your backend to Network Audio (iso ALSA, which is for direct dac connections)

[Miska]

37 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

I haven't connected the Red via USB at all. Just Ethernet (from switch) and AES/EBU to Devialet are connected.

Having the HQPlayer Embedded installed on the MicroSD things work now. But I still wonder if the setup is correct as it says here:

So I am using ALSA obviously. Though later it says:

 

which is a bit confusing as I have no USB connected at all to the Red.

 

 

This is correct. The DDC is internally connected through "USB".

 

22 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

I am currently using the ALSA output, would it be better for sound quality to set the Backend to "Network Audio" ?

 

No, it should be set to "ALSA".

 

22 minutes ago, Markus8 said:

Just I don't find where I can upload the zip file with the convolution filters?

 

You need to upload mono WAVs, one for each channel, in this case preferably ones generated for 192k sampling rate.

 

10 minutes ago, Apollo said:

You should set your backend to Network Audio (iso ALSA, which is for direct dac connections)

 

Absolutely no! There's no point in routing data through "network" when both HQPlayer and NAA reside within same device! It just increases overhead for no reason. There is a direct DAC connection here.