Suggestions for a low-cost DAC?

[mrmb]

On 1/4/2019 at 1:52 PM, Shangri-La said:

But I want to know the performance between different products, price no object. Measurements do that for me, as does Stereophile's class rating. In the mean time, I tend to prefer newer released products, as I believe DAC (along with high res source) is proabaly the component in a hifi system that benefits the most from recent technolygy improvements.   

In the range you're considering, not a bad way to make a selection.  In fact, several decades ago -- minus the need for measurements -- I relied upon similar logic.  However, with the advent of audio forums, professional reviews are now very minimal place holders (if at all) in my audio product selection process and measurements are irrelevant. 

 

As a previous poster suggested, my ears are the ONLY measurement devices I require; pleasing them is my ONLY goal -- why I am in this hobby.  I ONLY want to know how a product sounds in my system.  I don't care about its component parts, its aesthetics, etc.  How does it sound and does it please me is the only question I want to know the answer to?  Not does it have appealing charts, graphs etc.?  Imaging, soundstage, the-you-are-at-the performance illusion can't be answered by measurements. 

 

If for example, the questions: of does a trumpet sound like a trumpet, or more importantly, how well does a component recreate a performance could be answered by measurements, forums like this wouldn't exist and we would all be procuring the components that manage to spit out the absolute best measurements -- i.e., is this one 0.001% better here and there, than its competition?  Maybe a place to start, but hardly the place to end; unless of course, one is more concerned with being "right" as opposed to being personally satisfied by the end result -- allowing lab measurements and the conclusions of others to be the zero factors they should be.   

 

Once I got away from professional reviews, because information was so available elsewhere, I discovered several amazing boutique products that rarely, if ever, make it to the pages of advertising containing publications.  Some of these are sold direct and the only way to learn of them is reading, sifting.....reading, sifting etc.  Yeah, it takes thousands of hours; but after putting in the time and effort, one finds information and poster's that ring true, because you can manage to ascertain that their listening priorities are similar to yours etc.  However, at a price range of a AQ DragonFly Red, periodical reviews are a good way to initiate painting a picture, along with doing what you've done here.  With all angst aside, you probably can't really go wrong with whatever you choose....

[mrmb]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

So, how do you know you are relying on your ears alone, and not on some form of mental bias?

 

At university, my learning of the scientific method struck a significant and notable chord.  I embraced it with a passion.  Thus, I l understand conformation bias Et al. 

 

Bias is with us every minute of every day -- optical illusions are simple but significantly potent examples of how constantly and consistently biased we view the world.  We learn to view the world as we learn everything else and oftentimes we simply get it wrong.  Life is constant learning if we doing as we should.  There are few givens and even those are subject to change as we progress as a species.    

 

As it was important to me, I have worked 24/7/365 towards an objective way of looking at the world.  Can I perfectly do this?  Heck no, NEVER!

 

After many experiments and more years than I care to count, mental bias is maintained as a given and is always a possibility. So what?!?  It isn’t a bad or good thing, it just is.  There is no right, wrong, component or rig here.  How can one quantify beauty?  Yep, it is in the eye (or in this case, ear) of the beholder, NOT in a measurement!! 

 

I treat this hobby as a way to relax and meditate, not one where I must continue to browse and analyze charts and graphs.  As important as these are in other instances, my subjective music reproduction appreciation has not been biased by these, unless of course an audio designer of my components has used them to enhance and voice their products as I imagine some have.       

 

The very premise of this hobby is an illusion.  We're trying to recreate a performance in our personal environment that occurred at some other time and place.  During the best of times, we may lull ourselves into thinking we have done this.  Being able to do this repeatedly has been my goal.  To my satisfaction and pleasure, it works very well.  But listening to my system, would it be that way for anyone else?  Who knows and why should I care? 

 

Many years ago while he was taking percussion lessons, I took my son to his first symphonic performance.  I asked him what do you think.  He said it sounds like your stereo. Was he biased by the way I asked the question or what he thought I wanted him to say?  Maybe or not!  But at the time, my rig sounded pretty darn good when compared to a live performance or a solo instrument.  It is even better today.  But no system today (at least) can replicate a single live instrument, let alone an orchestral crescendo!  With the former, we can get pretty darn close and I suppose that is what we’re seeking.

 

At any rate, my son as I, is now an avid audiophile.  His first job after graduating with a computer science degree was with a major and historic audio equipment manufacturer.  He had the pleasure of taking our hobby into his work by being involved with many double-blind listening tests; providing the engineers with several of my so-called audiophile recordings.  He learned a bunch about bias and himself, but more importantly his audio tastes.  Yes we all have them or should if we’ve spent enough time “educating” ourselves to our preferences by listening to as many different and divergent types of equipment as we can (not by analyzing measurements).

     

My son and I do listen and compare and contrast what we’re hearing.  We only do so separately and without prejudicing each other with our thoughts or conclusions before conveying them.  Does this remove all bias?  Of course it doesn’t!  But we’ve ended up with pretty darn satisfying results via the various systems we own – none of which relied a wit on our analyzation of scientific measurements. 

 

My son has his audio priorities and I mine.  Sometimes they overlap; other times, not so much.  Does that make one of us right and the other wrong, heck no.  What it means is that he enjoys what he does and I enjoy what I do.  But all of our various audio and video systems make each of us smile, no matter whose system we’re listening to, when.  But in absolutely NO instance have measurements evoked that smile or goose bumps or even the tears upon hearing a beautiful instrument, voice, or a never-to-be repeated performance….  

 

It is unimportant whether anyone else obtains the same result as we.  We’re not seeking a peer reviewed consensus or a replication of our personally satisfying conclusions – just beautiful, blissful recreations of memorable performances....

 

[mrmb]

Re. the Pro-Ject Pre Box S2A :  Out of a small number of Amazon Verified Purchaser Reviews, several cite build quality issues.  Especially those involving either power port's/USB port's "breaking"/"falling-off".  I'm always wary about purchase reviews especially on Amazon.  But there appears to be far too many of a limited sample, "verified" purchasers with the same issue.  So, at the very least before purchasing, I would want to delve into this issue more to confirm that either the reviews on Amazon are abnormal, or Project has fixed the problem.  

 

 

[mrmb]

Thanks for the review link.

 

However, Sterophile's review left me wondering.  Wondering how the contents of the review turned the Project into a class "A" rating?  Wondering if the Project actually bettered the AQ DragonFly Red, or whether overall they were equal with perhaps the AQ bettering the Project? 

 

The review revolved around using the Project with headphones.  While speakers seemed to be used, I found no listening comments specific to their use.   

 

I don't doubt that the Project at its price point is a superb DAC.  I just don't know how the review I read, translates into a Class A rating, unless of course the value-to-performance ratio skewed it in that direction?  

 

At any rate, the devil is always in the details and for me and for my 2-cents, Stereophile's review goes wanting.