Objectivists/Subjectivists

[Rt66indierock]

It's not a either or debate. As I work toward marketing high performance audio to younger people they seem to grasp transparent. Coloring the sound is a harder concept.

[Rt66indierock]

9 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

I have no idea about your background but do you honestly believe that everything relating to the science of electronics is already known? Nothing more to be learned?

We are a lot further along than high end audio marketing would have you think. 

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, lasker98 said:

 I really don't believe those posting their own experiences are doing high end marketing.

 

The people posting are influenced by the marketing of high end audio that there are advances when we area point where almost everything is incremental in audio and has been for a very long time. 

[Rt66indierock]

5 hours ago, Norton said:

20 pages in and I’m still no clearer how those who describe  themselves as objectivists differ in their approach to system building from everyone else.

Any objectivist here prepared to detail their system and the regime of comparative physical and listening tests undertaken, and publish the resulting data underpinning their choice of that system rather than any other?  

 

Or is objectivism just about criticising  other people and their systems? 

 

 

Whether you consider me on the objective side or not my objectives of a system are in KIH's  as we have discussed. 

 

I consider audiophiles to be normally distributed so half are on the wrong side of the bell curve, a third are on on the upper side of mediocre and a sixth may have something to say that is interesting.  Where do I put myself? Just on the right side of the bell curve in the professional category.

 

Or to put it subjectively just play Pet Sounds and if you don't get a "wall of sound" with your  system you failed in my opinion. 

[Rt66indierock]

5 hours ago, Music Enthusiast said:

No it is not a new discovery to me that if an audio company is successful,  they did a good job. Most companies who make audio gear strive for success. This success is weighed by the sales numbers, combined with positive client feedback. And most successful companies who sell audio gear in this industry publish very little for objective data. What this tells me is you're chasing the wrong goal with that soul-less machine over at ASR. If this wasn't the case then the majority of successful companies in the industry would publish more data.

 

What you should be focusing on is discovering the formula of building successful audio gear. Not gear that appeals to a very limited demographic. Most of the gear that's the highest rated over on ASR, does very poorly when it comes to bringing pleasure to the ears of the masses. Unless you're specifically targeting folks who only have experience with very poor sounding gear. Then the feedback from them can give a false impression to newcomers that those products will actually satisfy them as well. 

 

I'm going to test your theory. I gave my home system to my son. I'm going get some active pro monitors and a "soulless" DAC with XLR out. And connect it to my music laptop. 

 

And maybe for my office go completely "soulless."  Active pro monitors with digital in, a USB/XLR adapter and computer with digital audio workstation software.

[Rt66indierock]

6 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said:

According to Amir, if the USB cable makes any difference connected to your DAC that only means your DAC is poorly designed. 

 

I used play golf with a couple guys from Intel who were responsible for the USB standard. They would agree with Amir.

[Rt66indierock]

3 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

That doesn't sound quite right.  

 

I am pretty sure you can easily measure a difference between a USB cable connected to your DAC and one that isn't.

 

Read his article. 

[Rt66indierock]

4 minutes ago, Allan F said:

Read his post again, slowly, and you may get it.

 

I did. I rarely comment on cables since I've tested enough of say USB cables with known issues (most fun iron impurities) to have satisfied myself that an on spec USB copper cable is all I will ever need. And all that is necessary for high performance audio. 

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

I did, and I fully agree with it.

 

It was a small attempt at levity.  

 

Appreciated thanks

[Rt66indierock]

31 minutes ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Unless of course there's other phenomena going on that his simplistic test isn't picking up on. 

 

I've tested a lot of USB cables over the years. To me "other phenomena" is just fear, uncertainty and doubt unless you can give  me an example of what Amir's  test is missing so I can test it myself. 

[Rt66indierock]

Just now, Music Enthusiast said:

How did you conduct your testing?

 

Simple answer the way the way I was asked to test.  My USB  testing was for manufactures and  I was generally encouraged to include music in them. We learned a lot about heat and noise issues with USB ports as an example. 

[Rt66indierock]

1 minute ago, Music Enthusiast said:

Ahh so this didn't consist of controlled listening tests with ultra high fidelity audio systems. 

 

USB cables were tested on on my home and office systems. High enough fidelity for the purpose and if I'm doing the testing they were controlled. I my case you are having someone who testing is part of the entry requirements of their profession and in was paid to test and be tested in the broadcasting industry for 15 years as a moonlighting consulting job. 

 

 

[Rt66indierock]

22 minutes ago, Norton said:

 

But again you describe youself as being further towards the “objective side” wholly in terms of being critical of what others claim or hear.  You have gone to the trouble of labelling yourself as an objectivist in your signature, but I see nothing yet by way of explanation or illustration as to how you apply that objectivity in a positive form to your own audio choices.  As an objectivist are you able to outline what you like and the measurements and testing that got you there?  Alternatively,  would “Junior Skeptic” be a more accurate self-description ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe go look on ARS, Audibility thresholds of amps and  DAC  measurements? flipflop lays out some of the objective stuff and there are some good comments.

[Rt66indierock]

12 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

Chris, I'd like to request this thread be closed. It's serving no purpose other than a playground for the worst of CA/SA which is the last thing I want as the OP. Let them start their own thread.

 

I think it serving a purpose where the thread is now. I didn't even mind SuperDad questioning whether I was affiliated in the industry. Whatever witch hunt he is on is fine with me but I certainly prefer a good shill hunt.