Concert Hall sound

[semente]

Regarding a being there sound, how I see it.

 

The spherical propagation of the sound of the cello remains true, as does the fact that the wave would propagate in all directions and hit the boundary surfaces which in turn would produce reflections or spatial cues that would arrive at the listening spot from different directions and with different time delay.

 

 

Now if we place a pair of mics in the spot marked as "L" they would capture both the direct sound (solid line) and the reflected sound (dashed lines).

Let's say we use cardiod mics aiming at spot "S" which due to it's near-spherical pattern will only neglect the wave reflecting from the back of the hall.

 

So we are already at a loss because the backwave will be recorded with a much lower intensity or level.

 

When we move to the listening room and the reproduction of this two-channel recording a few questions arise:

 

How can we accurately reproduce the back wave with a pair of speakers standing in front of the listener?

 

How can we accurately reproduce the celing reflections (red dashed line) if the sound is coming from speakers in front of the listener?

 

How can we accurately reproduce the side-wall reflections (dashed line) if the sound is coming from speakers in front of the listener?

 

How can we accurately reproduce the front wall (behind "S") reflection (dashed line) if the sound is coming from the exact same spot as that which is producing the sound of the instrument "S"?

 

It's easy to conclude that we cannot. Stereophony is an illusion. We have to accept it's faults to enjoy it.

[semente]

3 minutes ago, STC said:

Did you realize that the speaker shown in your earlier article and in this link is different?

 

Who cares. Anyone can understand that you would need as many surfaces and drivers in the polyhedron as you have mics in the cage; it was what I could find in a quick search for illustration purposes.

Im' sorry but if you still don't get it there's nothing more I can add. Besides,

40 minutes ago, STC said:

it got nothing to do with this thread

 

[STC]

1 minute ago, semente said:

 

Who cares. Anyone can understand that you would need as many surfaces and drivers in the polyhedron as you have mics in the cage; it was what I could find in a quick search for illustration purposes.

Im' sorry but if you still don't get it there's nothing more I can add. Besides,

 

 

As I said, you misunderstood the purpose of the experimental speakers. It created a 3D image of an instrument. One instrument. This is very important where now it is possible to bring performer performing thousands of miles away replaced with those speakers. It is the reproduction of at the source which is not very useful for home listening. Just sign up for researchgate and download the full paper so that you know the difference and purpose of those speakers and sphere. 

 

Even if you put those kind of speakers in your room, you still need to produce the other ambience from 360 degrees around the listener. 

 

 Please read the articles and UNDERSTAND them before showing all kind of irrelevant pictures. 

[semente]

9 minutes ago, STC said:

 

As I said, you misunderstood the purpose of the experimental speakers. It created a 3D image of an instrument. One instrument. This is very important where now it is possible to bring performer performing thousands of miles away replaced with those speakers. It is the reproduction of at the source which is not very useful for home listening. Just sign up for researchgate and download the full paper so that you know the difference and purpose of those speakers and sphere. 

 

Even if you put those kind of speakers in your room, you still need to produce the other ambience from 360 degrees around the listener. 

 

 Please read the articles and UNDERSTAND them before showing all kind of irrelevant pictures. 

 

Well, you may have missed something I wrote:

 

54 minutes ago, semente said:

This is for instrument in your room sound only.

 

But now that I think abouy it, for a being there sound the opposite would work: a spherical mic array and a spehrical cage of speakers:

 

 

 

A bit unpractical for the consumer...

[semente]

This is Immersive sound:

 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-spherical-loudspeaker-array_fig1_323607750

 

The experimental set-up consisted of a sound spatializa- tion system making it possible to immerse subjects in an acoustic field.

[STC]

8 minutes ago, semente said:

 

Well, you may have missed something I wrote:

 

 

But now that I think abouy it, for a being there sound the opposite would work: a spherical mic array and a spehrical cage of speakers:

 

 

 

A bit unpractical for the consumer...

 

6 minutes ago, semente said:

This is Immersive sound:

 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-spherical-loudspeaker-array_fig1_323607750

 

The experimental set-up consisted of a sound spatializa- tion system making it possible to immerse subjects in an acoustic field.

 

Ok. Let’s make this simple for you as your confusing the purpose of the sphere and the speakers. 

 

Lets replace the  speakers with actual players. Real players in a school basket ball hall. Let’s say there  are 30 real musician with instruments playing in the hall. That sound is not going to sound like how you would hear them in concert hall. Do you know why?

 

if you like you can replace the real human players with  30 of those speakers and still in will not transport you to the concert hall. If you think it must be the halls acoustics and treat them and yet it will still will not sound like a concert hall. 

[semente]

38 minutes ago, STC said:

 

 

Ok. Let’s make this simple for you as your confusing the purpose of the sphere and the speakers. 

 

Lets replace the  speakers with actual players. Real players in a school basket ball hall. Let’s say there  are 30 real musician with instruments playing in the hall. That sound is not going to sound like how you would hear them in concert hall. Do you know why?

 

if you like you can replace the real human players with  30 of those speakers and still in will not transport you to the concert hall. If you think it must be the halls acoustics and treat them and yet it will still will not sound like a concert hall. 

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say but imagine that "L" is is the spherical mic array:

 

 

I can capture direct sound and reflections from any direction.

 

Now seat inside the spherical speaker cage. The sound of each the mic will be reproduced by a single speaker positioned in the corresponding position. It won't be perfect because each mic will pick up sound from other directions and there will be a bit of lobbing or combing distortion but the soundfield will be much closer than anything we presently have, even multi-channel stereo.

[STC]

12 minutes ago, semente said:

I can capture direct sound and reflections from any direction.

 

Now seat inside the spherical speaker cage.

 

Good! Capture and show. I am just talking a simple thing what’s missing in recording and you are bringing something totally of no use to those thousands of recording that we have in our possession. Don’t just say what it can be done. Do it and show your version of 3D sound. You have no idea what and how it works but harping on something based on assumption. Go get those speakers and make the recordings. You never bothered to answer any of the questions asked but always come up with something new as if you have experimented and understood them. This is not once but the forth time. 

 

When will your last post will be last?

[semente]

On 7/24/2018 at 4:47 AM, gmgraves said:

Looks to me like there's a microphone per instrument in the picture. Assuming those are the recording microphones and not just some house SR, there's no way that the sound of the recording above is a real representation of what those instruments sound like in a concert situation.  OTOH, there's an awful lot of reverb in the sample, which kind of indicates to me that those are not the recording microphones and that the recording mike(s) are out in the audience someplace. Perhaps the recordist is using a ZOOM H6 or something. The music's kind of interesting though.

 

 

The AS video was recorded from the audience so your assumption regarding the Zoom-like mic is probably correct, but listening again with headphones it sounds like there's too much detail and much reverb, hardly any imaging for the distance between mic and sources so I'm betting on a recording of the sound reinforcement.

I've found this photo at the elbphilharmonie website showing what looks like a stage monitor for the percussionist and there's a digital stage keyboard so it's very likely this was an amplified gig:

 

[semente]

This kind of music (indian classical) is meant to be performed and listened to in small intimate venues, not a 2k+ seat concert hall.

[Blackmorec]

4 hours ago, semente said:

Regarding a being there sound, how I see it.

 

The spherical propagation of the sound of the cello remains true, as does the fact that the wave would propagate in all directions and hit the boundary surfaces which in turn would produce reflections or spatial cues that would arrive at the listening spot from different directions and with different time delay.

 

 

Now if we place a pair of mics in the spot marked as "L" they would capture both the direct sound (solid line) and the reflected sound (dashed lines).

Let's say we use cardiod mics aiming at spot "S" which due to it's near-spherical pattern will only neglect the wave reflecting from the back of the hall.

 

So we are already at a loss because the backwave will be recorded with a much lower intensity or level.

 

When we move to the listening room and the reproduction of this two-channel recording a few questions arise:

 

How can we accurately reproduce the back wave with a pair of speakers standing in front of the listener?

 

How can we accurately reproduce the celing reflections (red dashed line) if the sound is coming from speakers in front of the listener?

 

How can we accurately reproduce the side-wall reflections (dashed line) if the sound is coming from speakers in front of the listener?

 

How can we accurately reproduce the front wall (behind "S") reflection (dashed line) if the sound is coming from the exact same spot as that which is producing the sound of the instrument "S"?

 

It's easy to conclude that we cannot. Stereophony is an illusion. We have to accept it's faults to enjoy it.

 

Well I’m not a recording engineer or even skilled at making recordings in any way. If that were a challenge I was given I would try placing a 2nd microphone facing the source of the backwave, and I would record it and include it in the mix. I would hope that the rate of decay, the time delay of the reflection, and both the amplitude and the phase would help my brain identify exactly where the sound came from. 

I know the sound comes from front speakers but if all the fidelity, wave structure and detail are present I would hope the system is able to produce the illusion. 

In essence all the second mike is doing is making the microphone(s) response truly spherical. 

This is all guesswork and not much theory so I’ve no idea if it would actually work but trying it would be fun

[semente]

6 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

 

Well I’m not a recording engineer or even skilled at making recordings in any way. If that were a challenge I was given I would try placing a 2nd microphone facing the source of the backwave, and I would record it and include it in the mix. I would hope that the time delay of the reflection, and both the amplitude and the phase would help my brain identify exactly where the sound came from. 

I know the sound comes from front speakers but if all the fidelity, wave structure and detail are present I would hope the system is able to produce the illusion. 

In essence all the second mike is doing is making the microphone(s) response truly spherical. 

This is all guesswork and not much theory so I’ve no idea if it would actually work but trying it would be fun

 

I think that would work with a 2-front + 2-back speaker setup.

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, semente said:

 

The AS video was recorded from the audience so your assumption regarding the Zoom-like mic is probably correct, but listening again with headphones it sounds like there's too much detail and much reverb, hardly any imaging for the distance between mic and sources so I'm betting on a recording of the sound reinforcement.

I've found this photo at the elbphilharmonie website showing what looks like a stage monitor for the percussionist and there's a digital stage keyboard so it's very likely this was an amplified gig:

 

I agree fully. And I see no fewer than FIVE microphones on the drum set which is pretty normal for that kind of a concert situation. I see no microphone for the keyboard, so it is directly connected to whatever electronics are used. That's kosher, I do that myself. I can also see (look carefully) that directly behind the sitarist, in the gloom of the unlit portion of the stage, a monitor speaker sitting on a very tall stand. As for the guy sitting cross-legged down stage right, I can't tell what he's doing. Is he playing Indian percussion instruments like the tabla? I don't see anything that I would call an instrument, do you? 

[semente]

37 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

I agree fully. And I see no fewer than FIVE microphones on the drum set which is pretty normal for that kind of a concert situation. I see no microphone for the keyboard, so it is directly connected to whatever electronics are used. That's kosher, I do that myself. I can also see (look carefully) that directly behind the sitarist, in the gloom of the unlit portion of the stage, a monitor speaker sitting on a very tall stand. As for the guy sitting cross-legged down stage right, I can't tell what he's doing. Is he playing Indian percussion instruments like the tabla? I don't see anything that I would call an instrument, do you? 

 

In this photo it looks like a xylophone, and perhaps a small wooden percussion box (in the other photo), probably vocals as well:

 

 

This is from the Elbphilharmonie site:

 

Performers

Anoushka Shankar sitar

Sanjeev Shankar shehnai

Manu Delago hang, electronic drums

Tom Farmer double bass, keyboard

 

https://www.elbphilharmonie.de/en/whats-on/anoushka-shankar/7242

 

I bought her first album when it came out in the late nineties...

[semente]

I've had this CD for a while but never got round to listen until now. Eargle's notes are very interesting, though I find his use of spot-mics a bit overly spectacular and unrealistic (all instruments have front row detail, presence and balance).

 

 

 

THE SYMPHONIC SOUND STAGE: A LISTENER'S GUIDE TO THE ART AND SCIENCE OF RECORDING THE ORCHESTRA

 

A listener at a concert perceives sounds from all directions. Through the binaural hearing sense, the listener is able to "zero in" on the orchestra, while at the same time perceiving delayed and reflected sounds originating at the sides and back of the hall. The home listening experience is not quite as rich. Here we have only two channels to work with, and a number of compromises must inevitably be made. Somehow, these two channels must convey most of the information which exists naturally in the concert hall, and the job is not easy. If we were simply to place a pair of microphones at a normal listening distance from the orchestra, we would have a virtually useless recording. Over the years, both recording engineers and producers have "moved in" on the orchestra, and the main microphone array is normally no more than three or four feet from the front row of strings and perhaps nine to eleven feet above the floor of the orchestra. While this may seem rather close in, it actually gives the impression over a stereo pair of loudspeakers of having been recorded, or "heard," at about Row K or L in the concert hall.

 

The balance between direct and reverberant sound is extremely important, as is the reverberant decay rate itself. In some instances it may be necessary to place a secondary pair of microphones twenty-five to thirty feet out in the hall in order to capture enough reverberation from the hall. In a similar manner, if the orchestral seating is fairly deep, it may be necessary to place a small number of what are called accent microphones well into the orchestra itself in an effort to capture a little more detail from softer instruments. However, once final balances have been set, it is essential that there be no further level manipulations with any of these microphones. The dynamic range capability of modern digital recording and CD playback is such that no program limiting is required.

 

In planning a recording session, engineer and producer work carefully with the conductor in determining what kind of sound stage best fits the music. Conductor and producer are rightfully concerned with musical details and the engineer about sonic details. All of them must be concerned about structure and texture in the recording. Structure refers to precise detail in imaging or placement of orchestral sections in the recreated stereo stage. It should be precise and unambiguous. Texture refers to the heightened sense of space and ambience in the recording, and it too should be natural and appropriate for the music at hand. Some microphone techniques emphasize structure, while others emphasize texture. A judicious combination is called for. In all of the large works heard on this CD, a four-across-the-front microphone array was used. This consisted of a center pair of cardioid microphones in a quasi-coincident array, flanked by a pair of spaced omnidirectional microphones. To these were added appropriate accent microphones, as required by musical and physical demands.

 

Often, it is necessary to reconfigure the orchestra shell in a concert hall in order to bring the back of the orchestra forward. For recording, the percussion players are usually arrayed in a wider arc across the back than is normal for a concert. The concern here is simply for more stereophonic interest. Brass are usually placed stereo right, with horns at stereo left, in order to emphasize the counterpoint between them. Woodwinds are usually seated in the middle, in front of the brass and percussion. The conductor's preference for string seating must be preserved, but with the basic configuration the engineer may wish to achieve more lateral spread in their physical placement purely for the demands of good stereo interest.

 

In many cases the hall itself may require treatment to make it more lively acoustically. This might take the form of blocking off doorways or covering portions of seating area with reflective panels, or even removing excess seating.

 

A lesson learned many years ago from the master engineer Bert Whyte is that only the finest and largest percussion instruments should be used. Many times we have had to replace bass drums with different models and even altered tuning in order to get a truly awesome low-end. Minute instrumental action noises, which would go unnoticed in a concert, can be disconcerting in a recording. Finally, the recording space itself must be noise free and well isolated from the environment.

 

As the reader can see, a great deal of planning must go into any orchestral recording session, and we would now like to walk you through some rather spectacular examples of what the orchestral sound stage means to Delos. Each of the selections described below presented its own set of challenges in both musical and engineering terms. We will tell you why we made the decisions we did.

 

for the rest of the booklet see attached PDF DE3502Dbook.pdf

[esldude]

16 hours ago, STC said:

 

There are two types of music production. One is “ They are here” and another is “ You are there”.  With the stereo triangle setup, the sense of getting this right to make the performers as if in your room requires precise placements. Concert hall performance in living room is “ You are there” experience where it transports you to a venue different from the acoustics restrain of your room. 

 

You description is They are here feel where you recreate the precise placements of instruments in your room. This is always the best way to play solo and small ensemble. Even with small chamber room “ they are here” setting is preferable. 

 

Do you mind sharing the recording? 

 

 

I don't have the rights to share those recordings.  

 

Sorry. 

[esldude]

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.713.1453&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

This investigation of anechoic recording might be of interest.  Haven't read it yet, but it looks interesting. 

 

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=archengfacpub

 

This one looked into whether one or five channel recordings anechoicly could be better used represent the instruments in use.  

[STC]

10 hours ago, Blackmorec said:

know the sound comes from front speakers but if all the fidelity, wave structure and detail are present I would hope the system is able to produce the illusion. 

 

This is easily demonstrable. A concert hall elaborate design is not only in the front but at the back too which is more important. 

 

You can easily find out for yourself by damping everything in front of your speakers, rear wall, ceiling and side wall. You will notice the same reference recording will sound lifeless.  Btw, the difference works better when you have a reasonable distance from the front speakers as in nearfield listening, the room acoustics is less noticeable. 

[STC]

3 hours ago, esldude said:

I don't have the rights to share those recordings.  

 

Sorry. 

 That’s ok. Thanks. 

 

2 hours ago, esldude said:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.713.1453&rep=rep1&type=pdf

 

This investigation of anechoic recording might be of interest.  Haven't read it yet, but it looks interesting. 

 

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=archengfacpub

 

This one looked into whether one or five channel recordings anechoicly could be better used represent the instruments in use.  

 

The spherical cage would fit in nicely for such recordings. One of the reason I opted for Motu was because of this article.  

[semente]

5 hours ago, STC said:

 

This is easily demonstrable. A concert hall elaborate design is not only in the front but at the back too which is more important.

 

This is true.

I was involved in the design of a multi-purpose lecture in the late 90s hall and even there we had to carefully balance absorption and reflection (I was assisted by an acoustics engineer).

 

I still believe that a large space where music events take place and a small one where music recordings are reproduced have different requirements.

 

The acoustics of concert venue are an intrinsic part of the musical event, but at homw we wish to reproduce arecording of the musical event: is it beneficial to add the layer of confusion produced by our listening room's acoustics?

Concert halls and other venues are chosen for the beauty and suitability of their particular acoustics; what about our listening rooms, do they sound beautiful if our daugther plays acoustic guitar or if our son sing Hark the Herald Angels Sing?

 

5 hours ago, STC said:

You can easily find out for yourself by damping everything in front of your speakers, rear wall, ceiling and side wall. You will notice the same reference recording will sound lifeless.  Btw, the difference works better when you have a reasonable distance from the front speakers as in nearfield listening, the room acoustics is less noticeable. 

 

You can try this by placing a thick seat cushion covered by a down jacket or duvet behind the listener, or even a single bed mattress.

I've even sat myself inside a half-hexagon (120cm side) back in the day. It was long ago but I remember liking it.

 

[STC]

23 minutes ago, semente said:

I still believe that a large space where music events take place and a small one where music recordings are reproduced have different requirements.

 

The acoustics of concert venue are an intrinsic part of the musical event, but at homw we wish to reproduce arecording of the musical event: is it beneficial to add the layer of confusion produced by our listening room's acoustics?

Concert halls and other venues are chosen for the beauty and suitability of their particular acoustics; what about our listening rooms, do they sound beautiful if our daugther plays acoustic guitar or if our son sing Hark the Herald Angels Sing?

 

Audiophiles system is limited to they are here types of music. It excels in close intimate music where you can create a sense of placement, depth and pin point accuracy. 

 

For most, it should be a cake walk if they understand speakers placement and room acoustics. 

 

Furthermore, solo or music with few instruments such as guitar and piano are commonly heard by us in typical sized room. In most cases, the reverberation RT60 of those room is are usually less than 1 second. In ‘they are here’ setup, it is often the encoded reverbs and room reverbs will give similar lifelike performance. This is one reason why audiophiles stop searching for more accurate sound as most of their reference sound sounds somewhat real like what they are accustomed to in real performance. 

 

However, in concert halls the experience is totally different. Bringing those performance into you room is impossible as the last of physics will not allow a 2 second RT due to the smaller volume of the listening room. For these kind of music you need to transport your music to a bigger hall. This is the “You are there” situation. when I said there it doesn’t mean the same hall but a hall with similar reverberation. So you basically transport your classical recording to be heard in a  concert hall as opposed to listening to them in your room. 

 

 

 

[semente]

1 hour ago, STC said:

 

Audiophiles system is limited to they are here types of music. It excels in close intimate music where you can create a sense of placement, depth and pin point accuracy. 

 

For most, it should be a cake walk if they understand speakers placement and room acoustics. 

 

Furthermore, solo or music with few instruments such as guitar and piano are commonly heard by us in typical sized room. In most cases, the reverberation RT60 of those room is are usually less than 1 second. In ‘they are here’ setup, it is often the encoded reverbs and room reverbs will give similar lifelike performance. This is one reason why audiophiles stop searching for more accurate sound as most of their reference sound sounds somewhat real like what they are accustomed to in real performance. 

 

However, in concert halls the experience is totally different. Bringing those performance into you room is impossible as the last of physics will not allow a 2 second RT due to the smaller volume of the listening room. For these kind of music you need to transport your music to a bigger hall. This is the “You are there” situation. when I said there it doesn’t mean the same hall but a hall with similar reverberation. So you basically transport your classical recording to be heard in a  concert hall as opposed to listening to them in your room. 

 

 

 

 

If I understand you correctly, I still think that it would not be beneficial to have long reverb times in the reproduction/listening room as this would add a layer of confusion. That reverberation time (of the venue) should be encoded/registered in the recording.

 

In my experience some symphonic music recordings are reasonably effective at portraying the size of the venue, others not so much. I like some of Dorian's Mata/Dallas and some of the early BIS'.

One group of instruments that I believe plays an important role is the tympani. It's placement at the back of the orchestra helps to convey a sense of depth and spaciousness. But when the engineers add heavy-handed spot mics to the mix they destroy the realism.

 

 

After over a decade of participating in web forums from several countries I am entirely convinced that many audiophiles have never listened to live unamplified acoustic music. And these people who are used to amplified music are not interested in documentary recording because they only know and enjoy the presentation close-mic'ed instruments and vocals, and the fabricated soundstage of the multi-track studio productions. These are the "they are here" fans.

 

I am fortunate enough to be able to attend lunchtime recitals on an almost weekly basis, mostly at a local church, and I've even (literally) sat by the feet of Wispelwey once. Live instruments, even from very close, don't sound the way close-mic'ing makes them sound. If you add that many of the most comonly used mics exaggerate the top octaves, you have a recipe for disgrace.

It would be nice if we could reproduce the symphony hall reverb, as that would add another layer of realism, but I'm usually quite happy when the engineers are able to get the direct sound right.

[semente]

Since the topic is "Concert Hall Sound" I'll add a couple of papers on the subject (may have more around somewhere):

 

BBC_tonal quality in concert halls.pdf

 

Cox_Concert hall acoustics.pdf

 

Lokki_Concert Hall Design.pdf

[STC]

9 minutes ago, semente said:

 

If I understand you y, I still think that it would not be beneficial to have long reverb times in the reproduction/listening room as this would add a layer of confusion. That reverberation time (of the venue) should be encoded/registered in the recording.

 

In my experience some symphonic music recordings are reasonably effective at portraying the size of the venue, others not so much. I like some of Dorian's Mata/Dallas and some of the early BIS'.

One group of instruments that I believe plays an important role is the tympani. It's placement at the back of the orchestra helps to convey a sense of depth and spaciousness. But when the engineers add heavy-handed spot mics to the mix they destroy the realism.

 

 

After over a decade of participating in web forums from several countries I am entirely convinced that many audiophiles have never listened to live unamplified acoustic music. And these people who are used to amplified music are not interested in documentary recording because they only know and enjoy the presentation close-mic'ed instruments and vocals, and the fabricated soundstage of the multi-track studio productions. These are the "they are here" fans.

 

I am fortunate enough to be able to attend lunchtime recitals on an almost weekly basis, mostly at a local church, and I've even (literally) sat by the feet of Wispelwey once. Live instruments, even from very close, don't sound the way close-mic'ing makes them sound. If you add that many of the most comonly used mics exaggerate the top octaves, you have a recipe for disgrace.

It would be nice if we could reproduce the symphony hall reverb, as that would add another layer of realism, but I'm usually quite happy when the engineers are able to get the direct sound right.

 

You have to hear it for yourself. It is hard to describe what you will hear in a concert hall if you have never been to one and listened from from the best spot. As I previously mentioned, we are good at imagining or filling in missing cues by prior knowledge. 

 

Here is is the example, where with a one click of mouse listeners get to choose pure stereo playback and the full fledged virtual concert hall reverberation. I am yet to come across anyone who insist that the pure stereo playback sounds more convincing then the other. 

 

Ahttps://youtu.be/jRt0II_kr60

 

 

[semente]

7 minutes ago, STC said:

 

You have to hear it for yourself. It is hard to describe what you will hear in a concert hall if you have never been to one and listened from from the best spot. As I previously mentioned, we are good at imagining or filling in missing cues by prior knowledge. 

 

Here is is the example, where with a one click of mouse listeners get to choose pure stereo playback and the full fledged virtual concert hall reverberation. I am yet to come across anyone who insist that the pure stereo playback sounds more convincing then the other. 

 

Ahttps://youtu.be/jRt0II_kr60

 

 

 

Thanks for the example.

I can only listen with headphones for the moment, and as we've been discussing there are limitations as to what a recording can provide in when compared to listening in situ, but I'll give my impressions nonetheless.

I have been listening to two channel stereo through speakers since the late 80s. This means that I have gotten very used to it and like the results, and this may produce bias.

The sense of immersion is undeniable and very attractive as is the fuller low end; I much prefer the balance of the multi-channel DSP'ed version.

However I feel that the 2-channel presentation gives me a "better"/"more natural" sense of the spatial acoustics of the venue where the recording took place (it sounds a lot more "distant" too) but this may be because I'm listening to a recording, or just because I'm used to 2-channel stereo. I wonder if anyone else feels the same.

 

The DSP'ed version is somewhat louder which is never a good thing in an A/B comparison.

And it would help a lot if I were able to listen/experience this live of course.