Lies about vinyl vs digital

[kelvinwsy]

4 hours ago, Axial said:

It is, the vinyl sounds beautiful. I just don't know how to explain the mechanics behind all that beauty versus the CD, beats me. Thank you.

I like to share my personal experience; Used to run a Microseiki TT set (BL-91) not the top but that made me (in the 1980's) shop for good LP's. Those were the days of Sheffield Labs, and other Audiophile Labels. Before the dreaded DIGITAL masters came along you had GENUINE Analogue Direct to Disc LP's. One of the most famous would be Thelma Houston and the Pressure Cooker - I've got the music in me Direct Cut.

I still have it in totally playable condition, A LAST Treatment (LP preservative coating applied 20 years ago and good dry storage) and recently judiciously LP cleaning rendered it totally like new.

Using my new ClearAudio Avantgarde Magnum with a Audio Technica AT-33EV MC to play this back on my Audionote Quest Silver 300B monobloc / Horn speaker system gives me the CHILLS. She was there in my music room.

 

But even for Sheffield Lab, not every Direct Cut was that great. Dave Grusin's Discovered Again was mastered at such low levels the dynamic response suffered. The bass was anaemic. And dont even mention the horrible stuff Lincoln Mayorga and Distinguished ... came up with... Audiophile Sound Not Good Music

 

To explain further... I cannot say the same about all the other commercial pressings from that era. The James Taylors, Linda Ronstadt's, Rolling Stones, Dire Straits even the Telarc Tchaikovsky's John Williams Boston Pops, Digital to Disc LP's  -- Mostly were just plain Garbage as far as mastering and recording onto the Vinyl.

 

I have a bunch of newer Digital Transfers to Disc - so called Audiophile Music - Bluegrass albums just guitar, banjo, ukelele recorded live and sounds wonderful.

The 64 Million Dollar question is do the Best of Digital trump (poor choice of word - No pun intended) the Best of Analogue. 

 

In my opinion. the BEST of the DIRECT TO DISC Analogue Disc remains the PINNACLE of Audio Recording and Reproduction.

 

My belief is that the Skill/Expert Knowledge/Care/Dedication/Passion put into the Recording/Transfer/Cutting process is the Essential Bit even if there is a digital chain in the middle. Having said that the end Medium (LP or a CD) will make all that difference. 

 

And I also have compared my McIntosh CD Player MCD7007 with the Disc Clamper Mechanism - again not the best of best through a PS Audio PWD II DAC through the same Tube/Horn speaker system playing the CD version of Dave Grusin's Discovered Again. An Absolute Piece of TRASH vs the Direct Cut.

 

I Contend that Digital Files with a superior Music Playing Software and with even a mildly improved Digital Playback system - Audiophile PC, Software/ USB streamer/ USB Decrapifier etc makes the Sound Quality of Playback far superior to the CD.

 

(I keep a HQPlayer DSD upsampling digital system which I play 10 x more than my TT system. 20000 tracks at my finger tips,  Sounds Fantastic)

 

So if we are comparing How high is the Audiophile Mountain Peak, then if the best of the Analogue or even Digital Direct Cuts is at Mount Everest, I maintain the best of Digital Streaming is like K2!! The best of the CD systems (maybe the best of the Belt driven Super Players may be around the K2 or slightly lower)

 

YMMV

 

Happy Listening.

[kelvinwsy]

It is ABSOLUTELY Depressing about Digital. 

I have spent the last 3 years 'upgrading' my digital streaming system - HQPlayer Server/NAA, double ethernet switch/ JSSG/LPS/Uptone Isoregen/SMS 200Ultra Neo/ Cables/Filters/Separate LPS for SSD... It sounds fantastic

Over the last 2 weeks I finalyl found a Tube Amp Technician who fixed my EML 45 Tube Amp Pre-amp...

Commissioned my Clearaudio Avantgarde Magnum TT and a simple Jolida JD-2 with EH 12 Ax7 tubes

Ran this all through my other Tube Power Amp - An Audiopax Stereo 88 with Psvane KT88 and EH 12 AT7 tubes.

So it is not even my AudioNote 300B monoblocks amp system

 

Plugged in my Hifiman HE560 - again nothing compared to my Abyss 1266phi/cc

 

Played

1. Hot Tuna Live - a normal LP

2. Spyro Gyra - Nautilus Label Half Speed Master - Morning Dance Album

3. Larry Coryell/Philip Catherine - Twin House

 

All albums I have the CD and copied onto my HQPlayer System

I compared it over streamed DSD256 to the Vinyl!!

 

Conclusion: Oh MY GOD - the Vinyl sounds SO DAMN REAL

 

That the Re-discovery Journey - Played one after the after of my 10 or so Sheffield Lab Direct to Disc LP's from 

1. Thelma Houston - I've got the Rhythm in Me - Killer Album and What Vocals and Playing

2. Harry James - Still Harry - The Brass sounds to die for 

3. Michael Newman Classical Guitar - Hear and feel the vibration of the guitar strings

4. Dave Grusin - Discovered Again - A bit soft mastering level 

5. Lincoln Mayorca and Colleagues - Really Crappy Music

6. Legnani, Carulli - Michael Newman Classical Guitar

 

etc. 

Just one conclusion on the Sheffield Lab Direct to Disc LP's - Live, Palpable, PRAT, Impact, Dynamic Range, REAL MUSIC!

Where did we get Lost in the journey to Real Music and Hifi Nirvana???? 

So I am back to LP's - luckily I kept 300 of my best and had preserved them with LAST - kept dry and washed with Disc Washer - Got to buy new albums now--HA HA

Kelvin

[kelvinwsy]

Well, it has never been my Modus Operandi to spend big bucks to buy a Top of the Line System eg 200k speakers. 2nd hand, good valued stuff appeals to me. I spend a lot of effort DIY/Tuning/Tweaks experimentation to get my system to sound the best... At the end of the day it is Music Enjoyment as much as fiddling with gear. It is also a useless effort to argue for that the same Album on Vinyl and CD, which recorded version and pressing is better. Yes there are differences but unless the Vinyl pressing was on crap recycled vinyl material and the Sound Engineer murdered the mastering, the Original Vinyl release will generally (IMHO) beat the best CD release.

 

I can say I spend a lot of effort fine tuning both digital (actually the last 3 years - a lot of effort) and just getting serious again with my Turntable system. 

IMHO, and YMMV - it is the recording process/quality of playback in a Turntable system that just pips the digital system at the finishing line in a race to achieve Top Quality Playback.

I have absolutely Crappy LP's - Linda Rondstadt's rock albums comes to mind - I love LR and her voice/music but the compression and lack of dynamic range is just pathetic

I have digital music that sounds really great. Barbara Streisand's Partners Album is a really good recording in 44.1khz CD format for example.

I will continue to steadily improve both systems when a piece of high quality gear appears in the 2nd hand market. A top of the line phono pre-preamp is next in my target sight!!

Enjoy the Music

[kelvinwsy]

Umh! - Got to get the latest Sprout from PS Audio - Maybe a good choice for phono preamp and 24/192 upsampling and digital recording from my precious Sheffield Labs. 

No until I try it I cannot.. But I have 24/96 and 24/192 recordings from HDTracks that sound fantastic

Sara Bareilles Live at the Variety Playhouse is an example of a stunning recording even if it was from the DVD as the original source.

Some of the Chesky 24/96 music is good too. Christy Barron - Take this journey is another example

Though you can recognize the Chesky house sound with some experience.

No I think i was too critical on my music/system - My digital system sounds really good too. 
Just for that final bit - I think the Sheffield Labs and other Direct Cuts LPs I have - there is some dynamic over range that gives that additional thrill  - I saw this on a Audiophile style.com featured digital vs LP playback of Anne Bisson _ Blue Mind - You can hear the difference even over crappy YouTube. The presenter explained that the way the cutting head cuts the groves, it overshoots on dynamic peaks and this gives the additional SPL overpeak that makes LP's (well recorded ones) that Life like SQ!

Kelvin

[kelvinwsy]

@Semente - Yes preference for digital or vinyl is just like Music - always a matter of taste or more aptly put a choice of flavors!

If you are referring to Tube amplification vs Solid state then I need to point out I use 2 Pure Class A monoblocs for driving my HPs inclusive of the AByss 1266/HD800/HE 560 etc . Also can use the Audionote Quest Silver 300b Monoblocks. 
Tube or Solid State adds different flavors to the basic music as reproduced.

My TT system has tubes in the Jolida/EML 45 Tube Pre/KT88 power amp.

I also can use my iFi iDSD Micro to connect direct to the Jolida phono pre

 

Depending on the mood of the moment, I can fine tune the end music vista that is presented to my ears. That however does not change the vividness of the BEST of BEST Vinyl has to offer (with the surface noise, etc of vinyl) versus the Best of Digital. (no I am not saying my setups are anywhere near the Top - I would say Mid-FI at best) But they make Music

 

My point in my original post above is that there is something elusive "Life Like of the Best of Best of Vinyl that you need a MEGABUCK Digital playback chain to go Near! That where I feel we have lost our way.  

[kelvinwsy]

I know what @sandyk is referring to about Soundstage on vinyl being more center stage more body and yet slightly more diffuse. Vs Digital which is pinpoint focused but like slimmer and not so corporal body like. Definitely Separation on Vinyl is way less than Digital. I hear this all the time over a range of musical genre's.

Kelvin 

[kelvinwsy]

Mosaic Jazz Festival here.. Stacey Kent and her husband and Band were festured! Live Real music but was amplified.. Stacey did not warm up until the middle of the 4th song

Moral of this story Even live music needs tuning

 

So many of us struggle to tune our digital playback system to rid it of the digital greyness. 

As for Vinyl it is mechanical resonances, noise, and to stretch the fidelity of the playback system

Amplification - take your pick Even Order Harmonic Distortion or DC to Mhz freq range with Solid State .. Pick your poison😁

It is a continuous struggle...the hifi adventure .. the enjoyment is in the pursuit and journey .. Always elusive target ...within sight but beyond reach