Onnto DataTale 4-Bay With 2.5" drives vs 2-1Tb 3.5" Internal Drive?

[Forehaven]

As I'm ripping aiff to my G5, I realize that I don't have enough space on the int. hd. So I'm thinking either a Onnto DataTale 4-Bay NAS using 2.5"/5200rpm with 3.5" holders (I read the smaller and slower disks sound better), or, using Chris' Cash List rec. int. hd, the Seagate Barracuda ES.2 1Tb X2. Thought of the Thecus 5200, but the noise might be an issue; however, I'm also thinking of getting this quiet box for the G5 that I could also put a Thecus in there if there's consensus that this would be a better auditory experience http://www.silencecases.com/pro_attenutation_cases.html

 

I remember from the symposium, that imo, int. drives sounded better than the NAS drives setup; yet I also read that getting the hd away from the noise and emi inside the computer is more important. Getting the best sound is what's most important to me, other than SSDs

 

Anyone with any opinions on this?

Thanks,

Chris

 

PS: I sure hope that conversion software that comes with dBpoweramp will be easy to get my archived flac files onto the new drives with aiff files

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris - The DataTale devices are not NAS drives. They connect via USB, eSATA, or FireWire. Just like any external hard drive but it supports RAID and four drives. This could sonically be better than a NAS drive.

 

I highly recommend you look at the silent enclosures as much as possible before purchasing one. They are much larger than most people expect. Plus, some have heat issues is not properly vented with temp control and fans. The cases used at the Symposium work really well.

 

[Forehaven]

So it's a RAID box, http://www.amazon.com/Onnto-DataTale-4-Bay-FireWire-Enclosure/dp/B001Q01KK2

So am I assuming right that NAS is defined by being connected via Network, like ethernet or wirelessly Chris? (I read the definition of NAS in wikipedia to no avail )

 

If I were to go with one of those DataTale devices, do you agree with what I read that the 2.5"/5200rpm drives are better than that Seagate Barracuda 3.5" drive in your cash list?

 

I'm glad I mentioned that box, and hear some feedback on it. What manufacturer's box did you you there?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris - The beauty of the DataTale enclosures is they don't require any software configuration. The RAID configuration is done via little switches on the back of the unit. Ultra simple.

 

Yes, NAS (Network Attached Storage) in its simplest for is a hard drive connected to a network, not via firewire, usb, etc...

 

I've hear good things about using 2.5" drives v. 3.5" drives, but I haven't done any testing myself (that I can remember).

 

Here is a link to the boxes we used at Fantasy Studios

 

http://www.norenproducts.com/AcoustiLock/acl_gcab.php

 

[Forehaven]

Great information Chris, Thanks..and "Wow", that enclosures spendy! I see though the better design in both sound and dust reduction. I'd like one.....(and I can hear right now how loud this G5 is, and I know I need to address the sound issue, or go with newer/quieter Mac...or even my Macbook Pro with some ext. drives as per below?) I still have a DAC and amplifier to buy Right now, I'm thinking of some $5k'ish dac (Berkeley/Weiss), not sure which, and Pass Labs xa 60.5 monoblocks. If I can do this right, it just might make some 'music' )

 

One last drive question, what would be the best here, a DataTale (4-1Tb drives), or just putting 2-2Tb drives in the G5? Both will give me a max of 4Tb of storage, but going with the internal G5 drives would allow me to later on, get an ext. enclosure and use the 2 2Tb drives in a NAS and save $600 toward more drives or something else? As I've been thinking that I might end up needing more than 4 Tbs as I see now firsthand how fast disk space goes as the ripping continues.

 

I know the NAS is probably the best solution in the end, but it was the least musical sounding setup imo....but I also want to try to get the best out of digital music. Just not sure how to get there in the storage aspect of it and the G5 sound.

 

I really appreciate your opinion Chris, so please offer your best opinions now that I gave you a bit more information about me

 

Chris

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris - Good question. It's always easiest to throw a couple drives into the computer and call it a day. Problems arise when you run out of room though. You likely won't be able to take the drives out and put them into an external enclosure without losing all the data that's on them. So you end up buying new drive to move the data to and you're then left with empty drive in the computer. You can remove them at that time but there may be issues. Have you thought about an external unit that can accept two 2 TB drives now and expand later if needed?

 

If you need more than 4 TB the DataTale with 4 1 TB drives could be a dead end. Deices like the Drobo allow you to swap out the 1 TB drives for 2 TB drives without losing data. I don't think the DataTale will allow this.

 

[Forehaven]

Chris, I wanted to verify my info about the DataTale's after seeing on their website they sell the 4 bay with 4-2Tb drives. I got confused as I clicked only the 4Tb link and didn't notice the 6 and 8Tb versions. Anyway, there's also no limits on disk size, for instance, when they come out with 4Tb drives("They're close to getting these available" he said btw). They sell the 4 ($570) and 8 ($820) Tb box with drives that are Hitachi Deskstars in them, the 6Tb ($720) version, they use a Seagate. He also said it's best, whatever drive I decide to use, that I should use the same drive X4, esp. if I plan to setup a mirror raid...which I do if I get that much space. Plus he said, that when SSDs become affordable and large, they too would fit in the DataTale. Awesome!

 

This changes things altogether. Seems like a no brainer to get this (quiet exc. the drive noise), and price...only $250 more to double the space. I think I'll go this route.

 

So Chris, if they sell this with the following interfaces: eSATA, USB 2.0, 1394a Firewire 400 and 1394b FireWire 800

Wouldn't eSATA be the best/fastest? And if so, do these older G5's accept an eSATA output interface cards of some sort? I tried looking up about it and I simply don't understand the interfaces. Plus, I read online that's it's best to use two interfaces, so if I use eSATA for the RAID, I'd use the firewire out to a DAC. How would you set this up?

 

Thanks again for the help Chris!

Chris

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Chris - eSATA is really nice and fast. The only downer is that eSATA cables have a max length of 3.3 feet. G5s do support eSATA cards. Here is one that's really good, but may be a little overkill. http://store1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=24_39&products_id=167

 

If possible it is best to use different interfaces for storage and audio.

 

[Forehaven]

Cool product! Thanks for that link Chris.

 

Btw, so you know of the max length recommended for firewire and aes?

Good things to know.

 

 

 

[rayhil]

Chris, you stated: "I remember from the symposium, that imo, int. drives sounded better than the NAS drives setup."

Yet I've read many other comments here that NAS is at least equal to or maybe preferrable to internal or directly attached storage. Do others have opinions on this point?

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

@ Chris - The max single firewire cable is around 15 feet. Extensions can be used to go pretty far though. AES cables can probably be wrapped around your house and still be in spec. I'm not suggesting an AES cable that long will sound good, but it's still in spec.

 

@ Ray - When I demo'd NAS v. Internal HDD v. Internal SSD for 100 people everyone heard a difference and nearly everyone said NAS sounded the worst. A few pro audio engineers liked the sound from the NAS drives.

 

All this was played through iTunes/Amarra on a Mac G5. We didn't use any UPnP Ethernet based players that pulled audio directly from a NAS.

 

[4est]

I do not think anyone has mentioned that NAS is the slowest (IME), especially with sporadic use (memory play !). They go to sleep or run all of the time- take your pick. Updating is slow etc. PITA. Unless you want to manage it, I'd just use an attached drive. USB will be fine if you use a firewire DAC. I run a firewire drobo w/ a firewire DAC- my droboshare sits unused.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi 4est - A "good" NAS is really not visibly slower than an attached drive during everyday use. My Thecus is connected via Gigabit Ethernet and has never been slow. It can also be set to go to sleep on a time schedule so the on or off thing is not an issue. I don't put the drives to sleep after so many minutes of non-use because they can be slow to wake up.

 

The DroboShare is easy to use but it's been reported to be extremely slow.

 

[4est]

But it was probably my ignorance! So much so that I gave it away. Literally gave it away. On my network of three macs and a pc it was PITA to manage. I am sure for someone such as yourself it may not be an issue, but too much hassle for me. I tried to run my library and music files on the NAS in so that all my music would exist in the three locations I use. Tried mapping ect... The only way I got it to work required all of the machines mapped and not allowed to sleep.

 

Put another way, slow includes one's involvement and the sleep issue we both mentioned. With a regular drive, it just gets plugged in and you are off to the races. No network configurations or booting in order or waiting for it to wake ect... Sure, if you use it all day, everyday it may be the ticket. The OP seems a little more casual about it, and I thought I'd let them know. I have read elsewhere that my issues aren't that unusual. As I said though, probably ignorance on my part. Then again, when work is done, beverage in hand and the lights are low- who wants to fool around with drives when there is music to be heard...

 

Frankly, purchasing the Thecus was one of the most frustrating things I have encountered in 30 years of audio!

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

"Then again, when work is done, beverage in hand and the lights are low- who wants to fool around with drives when there is music to be heard..."

 

Well said.