ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[Cornan]

I think I will try Supra Cat 7+ that I have in a drawer collecting dust. Instead of using the passive PoE adapter I will try different DC plug connections. One of each wire in shield tube connected +/-. One shield pair connected to + and another shielded pair to - etc. Interesting to find out how the shielding and the wire gauge affect SQ with different wire configurations. Hopefully I will have time to try it out during the weekend. ?

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Turns out the ebay Supra seller lives in the neighborhood so he dropped  the meter of CAT8 on my porch. Fabbed up a cable and... HOLY SMOKES! Now this is more like it. Just took the system sound to another level. Everything sounds so right and natural. I use Ahmad Jamal’s Ahamad’s Blues as a test track, and the long run of high piano notes in the beginning are now totally discernible, and not at all grating. Bass is big but defined. Timbre amazing and not at all muffled or strangled sounding. Incredible. So it says to me it’s the cable geometry at play, and quality does make a difference. 

 

I have it wired brown and orange and their white counterparts as hot, and the blue and green and their white counterparts as neutral. I may rewire one connector sometime as the orange on one side wouldn’t strip right and is hanging on by a thread. The outer casing is very stiff and hard to remove, and the insides very tightly wound. The wire isn’t any thicker than the generics, but one can tell it’s of higher quality. 

 

Man this sounds good! Listening to Thelonious’ Japanese Folk Song now. Like the players are in the room! 

 

Great report Charles!

Looks like my Supra Cat 7+ project have just changed to a Supra Cat 8 one. They are much easier to work with than the stiff Cat7+. A pity that I gave my Cat 8 ethernet cable away to my younger brother when Ghent ET02 improved upon it on the Aqvox ethernet side. Luckily I live in the land of Supra and almost any hifi- or home cinema dealer around have them in stock. 

[Cornan]

5 meter Supra Cat 8 on order. Expecting delivery tommorrow. If anyone finds the optimal wire configuration with the Cat 8 I am very interested to know about it!  

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Ok, best yet. Nine inch, with silver JSSG soldered from a twist of the shield from end to end. Original wiring pattern (blue/white/green/white pairs to -ve, and brown/white/orange/white pairs to +ve). Ends tinned. Final final version after this pic, the ground wire is twisted tighter and exposed wires taped up with electrical tape (poor man's shrink wrap).

 

Sounds superb. Bass tight but present, less to no sibilance, everything seems to just fit right into place. 

 

Man you’re quick! ⚡️Thanks to you it will be a walk in the park making my Supra Cat 8 DC cables without the usual trials and errors involved! Great work! ?

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, wushuliu said:

 

Glad to see you're ready now to try this tweak.

 

Yeah, now when the hard work have been done by others it will be a very quick mod to do. No point waiting anymore! ?

[Cornan]

17 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

It’s called working from home. There’s other things I should be doing. 

 

But man this sounds good. The best I can describe is the cheaper cables with their poE adapter or the barrel connectors, sounded smoother and less fatiguing, but in a way that seemed to veil certain frequencies - almost like a parameter eq being applied, esp up high. The Supra just lets all the music through, the tingling highest highs and rumbling lowest lows, but without any harshness or smearing, veiling or suppressing. Obviously there’s so much we’ve added to the basic hifi of old (computers, switches, multiple devices to render it all) that there’s lots of shielding that needs to be done. The shorter the cable the better, though YMMV. I have a lot of electronics packed into one cubic square foot corner of the house between the hifi and AV in the living room, then all of the server and network components, and my photo office, all in a closet directly below. Makes you wonder what it’s doing to our bodies....

 

Nothing beats working from home! ?

It’ll be very interesting to see how it turns out! I can see that the advantages lies in the different twist rates of the pairs as @wushuliu pointed out earlier on this thread. Intriguing to say the least! ?

Yeah, you got to wonder how it affects our bodies? I choose not to think about it so live longer! ?

[Cornan]

19 minutes ago, SuperRu said:

Been there, done that. Now to give it a listening test.

 

Looking good! ?

 

Here is a similar (but non-successful) attempt with a SAT cable that I did many moons ago! ?

 

 

[Cornan]

Finally I got the time to try the Supra Cat 8 out. Due to limited time to do this experiment I selected a spot where it should be very audible plus not too time consuming to perform. Between LPS-1.2 and BueWave’s galvanicly isolated Spdif output where a Canare 4S6 without JSSG is at work.

 

Here is some pictures that shows what I did.

 

 

The Spdif input and the LPS-1.2 have Kemet A750 (25v/560uF). The LPS-1.2 have series HPULNs (3A LT3045) with Kemet A750 at input of LPS-1.2 and Panasonic FC type A (25v/560uF) at output of the Gophert cup-3205II feeding the LPS-1.2.

 

So I had a first listen. No Wow! but definitely no Meh! either. It definately changed the sound a bit. Nice but a bit hollow, a touch of sibilance to the sound and sound image depth and width decreased a bit. Not as natural sounding. Firmer low end bass notes and midrange seems more attenuated (in a good way). Improved focus. 

I am not too worried though. I’ll guess it will improve with some burn-in as others have reported so I would’nt take these initial reports of mine for granted. The additional caps might also be responsible for these results. So far the Canare 4S6 is the winner here with a more natural, airy and full body sound, but I will report back later when I have spent some hours on the Supra Cat 8. Unfortunately I am going away tomorrow to Stockholm so that report will have to wait until Friday.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cornan]

Interesting! The sound have changed quite a bit during the last 40 minutes of constant music listening. The sibilance and hollowness is now all gone. The heights have turned more sweet. I wonder if this is due to my aluminum Polymer caps needed to get charged?  In any case it is already leaning towards the Supra Cat 8 with JSSG now. It surely sounds better than Canare 4S6 with additional details revealed. Great stuff worth to investigate further! ???

[Cornan]

I also noticed another thing. My LPS-1.2 was blinking red, yellow and green suddenly. Twisting the Cat 8 cable made it stop so I suppose that the contact is not 100% great on my Cat 8 cable. Could be a reason to my initial result. I will redo my cable again next week when there is no rush and I have more time to make it perfect! ?

[Cornan]

37 minutes ago, mansr said:

You can also put two (or more) in parallel to both reduce noise and increase current.

 

Both series and parallel reduces ripple to a minimum.

 

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-15.html#post5424495

 

Series is simple. Parallel is not as simple but this post might help you to acheive it if you do not want to buy Stammheims HPULN or HC-HPULN.

 

 

Also Alexey have a parallel LT3045 in the pipeline. You just need to wait for it!

 

 

[Cornan]

37 minutes ago, look&listen said:

Already parallel! 

Alexeys = 2 LT3045s for 1A

HPULN = 6 parallel for 3A

HC-HPULN = 10 LT3045s parallel for 5A

Look on LT3045 data sheet, see SET pin on chip used as reference to parallel chips to work together.

 

Yes I know. I use them all! ?

Each LT3045 is 500mA and not parallel. Alexey is coming with a 1.5A version soon though.

To get the 500mA boards (or 1A) to match you’ll need to wire them according to my link above.

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Anybody know what the material is around the wires?

 

Air-injected, low capacitance PE

Here is Jenving’s detailed specs on the bottom of the page: http://www.jenving.com/products/view/cat-8-stp-patch-1001908589

 

 

[Cornan]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

 

You do realize that we’re just having fun bodging together bits of cable to see if we can make our hifi’s sound better, and not trying to perfect a self driving car or some such mission critical project? Plus the parts are cheap, and it’s only low voltage so not much danger involved. Computer audio is a fast moving target. You can wait, or you can do. I’m glad I didn’t wait and am enjoying the best sound from my system yet. 

 

+1 It is important not to loose the fun of it all. That is the key however you do it! I trust Larry whatever he finds to improve on his own setup. Even if it do not improve on my own setup I do trust his judgement as if it was my own! By real life experience I know that certain changes are dependent on where your music is coming from. Tidal streaming is not the same as if it is coming from a local server, HDD or NAS. If you want to enjoy them all you’ll have to know that everything do matter! ?

[Cornan]

20 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

Does anybody compared Supra Cat 7 with Supra Cat 8? My tweaked connection between original cheap PSU and regen is done with Cat 7 and result is beyond any expectation. But, just because of this certain well known itch I am curious whether I should put some efffort into Cat 8? 

 

I do have both Supra Cat 7+ and Cat 8 and can actually make a comparence between the two. I suspect that the Cat 8 will concur the Cat 7+ due to the construction but it would be fun to know if it holds true IRL. I will report back as soon as I have got the time to put it together! ?

[Cornan]

13 minutes ago, bit01 said:

I modified the PoE adapter cable to be able to utilize all the 8 wires for power (1,2,4,5: +ve, 3,6,7.8: -ve). This has improved the low end performance of the Ugreen CAT7 (3ft) cable. I find it to be the equal or better (perhaps more relaxed sound) than the bulk Supra CAT8 +JSSG (1ft).

 

The adapters I modified are these:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01H7IF624/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The UGREEN

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00QV1F1C4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

 

 

 

Nice experiment @bit01! I did’nt see that coming! A great example what a community effort can bring to the table. So this suddenly seems like the capacitive coupling to the DC plugs (and perhaps EMI at the bare wire ends) is very important to these eyes! ?

I might just try the ferrite tape on the plug ends that I have been thinking about using for a long time on my ethernet (RJ45) and USB plugs.

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Yes this is great community effort! I use this copper foil tape everywhere to deal with any lingering worries about exposed cable ends and plugs picking up EMI etc. Works a treat along with PTFE electric tape to make sure there is nothing exposed to short circuits...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B016Y58TX4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Great to see you around here Patrick! Thanks for the link. Not possible to order from Sweden, but I know where to find similar. Electrokit.com rules! ?

[Cornan]

21 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks Micael!

I try to keep an eye on developments when I can, also on your thread  ... Looks like you are having fun!

 

I sure am! ?? More SPAGETTI than KISS for me, but that’s the way I like it! ?

Eagerly waiting for more info regarding your new chain! ?

[Cornan]

On 5/27/2018 at 8:51 PM, AnotherSpin said:

 

Will wait with great interest! Thank you.

 

Sorry for keeping you waiting. I have´nt got the time to do the comparison yet and during the weekend I´m off. I hope to get some time in the beginning of next week though. I have also ordered Supra DAC cable and Supra BiLine MkII to make some experiments with as DC cables. The approach I am thinking with the Supra DAC cable is actually to use two cables for one DC cable. One cable to -Ve and one cable to +Ve and connect the drain wires from each cable in a loop between the different cables. I will try the BiLine MkII with two "JSSG" with red wire to +Ve and blue wire to -Ve. 

 

Supra DAC

Supra BiLine MkII

 

 

 

My thoughts here is to see how much low capacitance & speed matters. I hope to get all of these done including the Supra Cat 7+ by wednesday next week.  

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

My SupraFranken with the LT3054 sandwich is really starting to come “on song” at about 72 hours plus in. Adjectives like “spooky” starting to be used. Amazing how just one cable can bring a whole system into focus. No plans to change anything for the foreseeable future, though will be reading with interest what others discover. For now, I can’t believe I’m getting the level of playback I am for so little outlay. Good times...

 

Imagine if you added any of these LT3045s to your SupraFranken. I can guarantee that you will be thrilled! ?

 

https://www.mpaudio.net/

 

What guarantee? I will buy it from you if it does’nt improve your current SupraFranken (I will always have need for another one)! ?

[Cornan]

25 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

 

Ha! Just not sure if one of these could be used between an LPS-1 and microRendu considering the voltage drop down. If I moved up to an LPS-1.2 I suppose. Just feel the need to not spend any more $ at the moment and enjoy what I have. Down the road perhaps....

 

Yes, it could be used in the same way that your current LT3045. It will just be better! Ofcourse the 1.5A version is EUR 89 but it is honestly an awesome price vs performance upgrade in this hobby! ? If you can fund EUR142 for the HC-HPULN (LS-HPULN) you will be flabvergasted! ??

My offer to you is firm. If you do not like I will buy it from you. No questions asked! I can even buy it for you if you cover the back and forward freight charges. That’s how confident I am! ?

[Cornan]

12 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

I guess I just don’t understand the numbers. The LPS-1 output is 7v and the microRendu lowest end is 6V. Won’t there be more than a 1v drop on one of these? 

 

No! The Vf is the same independent of current! The beauty of the LT3045 is that the more parallel ones you add the better (better ripple rejection) it gets! Two 5A in series will get you 0,000001mV @ 10mV of ripple!!!

The thing is that you can feed it with a SMPS and get the same result! However, to limit any backward noises use floating SMPS for best result. Gophert csp-3205II comes to mind! ?

[Cornan]

7 minutes ago, manishex said:

 

How much better is the SD-HPULN PS vs the LDOVR LT3045? Using capacitors on the output/input helps focus the sound on my LT3045. We would still need a decent LPS?

 

Vastly better! Something that 1A LT3045 cannot reach even in series!

A really bad SMPS connected to a isolation transformer with floating secondary will make the LPS useless (especially with floating ground) with the SD-HPULN IMO. However, if you add a LS-HUPULN after it will blow your mind. Parallel LT3045s is awesome and the more parallel the better. I cannot wait for a 10A version! ?

[Cornan]

28 minutes ago, sligolad said:

I can vouch for Cornan's recommendation on these supplies, big jump in performance and sound will astonish you.

 

I went from a Paul Hynes SR7 5v supply through a full paired POE CAT8 input to my ISO Regen to now:

The old Meanwell SMPS 7.5v I had from an old Regen purchase going through a paired POE CAT7 into a LS-HPULN set to 5v out then through a paired POE CAT8 into the ISO Regen and best sound ever.

 

I was surprised at the improvement.

 

Thanks for sharing sligolad! ?

The LS-HPULN (former HC-HPULN) is worth the praise. I cannot beleive the SQ I got from two in series powered by a balanced & isolated toroidal (50+50VAC) feeder supply. It keeps on improving by the hour! ?

Another thing is that I now can listen to -20dB through speakers. Before max -50dB!

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, sligolad said:

One of the finds of the past year alright Cornan, thanks for sharing the site link as I did not realize Michael had set up a new site.

 

Oh, the new site was realeased and announced today at the Diyaudio thread.  I do know that Michael has a few surprices up his sleeves. Be prepared to empty your pockets! ?