A crowd funded motherboard(s) for audiophiles - Part 2

[marce]

The basics of a motherboard are going to be the same from one motherboard to another, most if not all of the interfaces (DDR memory, Ethernet, PCI interface) have documented rules on how they must be laid out. Power delivery system has to be optimised and again will follow previous design practices. Then there is testing of the high speed interfaces, never mind the layout...

Differences seen between motherboards is usually number of layers and attention to detail such as minimising skew lengths between skew groups such as DDR data buses etc. all these things add cost and complexity, far easier to look for a decent mature product and use that IMO, as I know what a pain it can be doing motherboards... Never mind getting EMC compliance tests passed. On a good day your looking at 1 moth or more just in layout (full time) never mind the time to generate the schematics, source parts etc. etc. A big and possibly costly project.

[marce]

One of the main things for PC noise is the number of return planes... Commercial boards can be done on 8 layers (6 if you are a total cheep sake), the higher end PC motherboards tend to be 12-16 layers, the extra layers being solid return path layers (0V/GND) so that each signal layer is next to a return path and better between two return paths, though for ultimate noise limitation some signals (DDR) are best between a GND and the supply voltage layer as they will use both at different cycles of the signal for return path purposes, but that starts getting silly in terms of layout time and layer count.

[marce]

12 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

You may find this relevant.  It is a report of security flaws in AMD processors.

https://amdflaws.com/

Intel processors are also effected.

[marce]

This is entering the world of design by committee... I would suggest the OP define the requirements that cater for the majority, otherwise you will end up going off in so many tangents nothing concrete will be decided.

[marce]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Marce,

 

I am stopping the effort, at least my involvement in it. The timing is wrong regardless of the design. There are very few boards available that meet the requirements of the majority of poll respondents, a micro atx form factor motherboard with 3 directly connected slots to a processor capable of dsd512 upsampling. These requirements have been defined through the polling process and subsequent discussions.

 

There will be many more products meeting these requirements coming to market in the next months, and it is my judgement that it best to wait and revisit this topic once the pace of change has slowed down.

 

And what is wrong with design by committee? I purposely approached this effort with a goal to build concensus in requirements. I think that has been accomplished.

 

Feel free to start another thread if you would like to run a parallel effort. Technically, you are most likely better qualified than me to take this effort on.

 

Larry

Design by committee is where everybody want their own requirements for the job,  so you end up with many requirements that often can't be met withing the requirements and constraints of the design.

As to motherboards, for myself they are all as bad or all as good when looking at the basic stuff you can buy, none tend to be really far out designs because they have to sell for a certain price, I have done basic (to cost) and high end motherboards in the past, the high end boards often cost the same for a bare board as for a fully populated cheapo board. The problem is a lot of the top end boards are not for general sale, as they would cost to much, but for bespoke projects.

[marce]

13 hours ago, lmitche said:

Yes, I know, a camel is a horse designed by committee . . . .

 

Nevertheless the truth is most projects benefit from a collaborative approach, where the key is to be open to others ideas with a willingness to find compromises that make sense.

 

It would be great if you can suggest one or two board houses for a bespoke design.

If you want a board designed there are plenty of bureau's. But what I would do is look at some Chinease/Aisian manufacturers for a bespoke design, that would be the cheapest way.

[marce]

4 hours ago, lmitche said:

Yes, yet another reason to wait. Things are screwy, including the reporting of similar issues with AMD products that may have been fake news.

We are suffering with the new Windows updates to plug this hole in current processors. all the CAD software is running slower due to even more Windows overheads!