Laptop to Berkeley

[wattage]

What solutions are people using for connecting a laptop to the Berkeley Alpha DAC? I have an older lap top with firewire and USB but neither of those will directly connect with the Berkeley. I'd be interested in what solutions others have found and your experiences.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Wattage - Patience will help you on this one. Great Asynchronous USB 24/194 to S/PDIF converters are on the way in a month or two from top notch manufacturers. I know quite a few people using optical TosLink out of MacBooks waiting for these converters.

 

[aggielaw]

Chris,

 

Forgive the ignorant question here, but does the M2Tech Hiface qualify as an asynch to SPDIF converter? Are you at liberty to disclose which manufacturers are on the horizon, and whether they are likely to provide higher quality than the Hiface?

 

Thanks,

Howard

 

[earflappin]

Howard, yes, the HiFace is a USB/SPDIF converter that will work with the Berkeley. It only costs $150-200 so offers good value for money and has gotten good reviews. If you go that way I would order the version with the BNC connector. Other options include the Weiss INT202 which does firewire to SPDIF/AES and SonicWeld Diverter among others (e.g. the ART Legato only does USB/SPDIF 16/44.1).

 

Wavelength will start shipping their WaveLink async USB/SPDIF converter end of this month which will sell for $900. Berkeley is rumored to be releasing their own USB/SPDIF (possibly AES out as well) converter within the next couple of months. As Chris said, within a couple of months there will be a bunch to choose from.

 

How these various products will stack up against each other on a price/performance basis will take some time to feret out. If you're intent on getting something right away the HiFace for $150-200 might make good sense. Then you could let the dust settle and see if spending $900-1200 makes sense and sell your HiFace or keep it for another system.

 

I currently use a Lynx AES16 to interface to my Berkeley and I'm waiting to see if any of these new USB/SPDIF converters will outperform my interface.

 

 

 

[Suteetat]

I am wondering about the current limitation of 24/96 support only for many USB/spdif converter device currently.

I understand that USB2 definitely has enough bandwidth for 24/192 so what is the limiting factor?

I heard that Window driver only support 24/96 and we will have to wait until Window7 releases new USB driver (soon) that will support 24/192. Is this true? Does that means that anyone who uses PC base server will need Window7 in order to get 24/192 support via USB?

 

[davidR]

Howard, the Hiface is definitely not async. I think many people are confused with the influx of async usb to spdif solutions because of the great reviews of the Hiface. It's a great piece especially for the money but the async interfaces should outperform it. Socrates7 has both the Hiface and A.R.T. Legato and prefers the Legato. I'm not trying to take away any credit from M2Tech just letting you know to differentiate.

 

[audiozorro]

I have one Lynx AES16 ($650), three Juli@ ($130) and now one HiFace ($150). I'm no closer to declaring the winner and would probably say they are all winners. They all do 24/192 and they all sound excellent. The Juli@ is the best value since it has the lowest price, provides digital out and does both D/A and A/D. The HiFace is the most convenient since it uses the universal USB connection and its most suitable for laptops or switching between computers. The Lynx has prestige, the commonly accepted Mercedes-Benz of digital interfaces.

 

No doubt there will be many challengers to these in the future, but there may never be a universally accepted winner, though the quest and debates are quite interesting. Might as well ask everyone (that is everyone except Mani and PeterSt) what's the best DAC in the world?

 

[earflappin]

Interesting. So you're saying in your head to head comparisons you don't prefer one to another? I would presume that the DAC itself is a key variable in interface preferences. All I can say is that in my set up I preferred the Legato to the Lynx AES16. Without the BLA external clock the Legato would have had an ever larger lead, reputation or not.

 

[audiozorro]

I haven’t done head to head comparisons with these interfaces. These interfaces are excellent IMO and since I already own them my focus was not trying to determine the best, so that question remains open. The HiFace is new and I’ve only spent a few hours with it. I generally like to put about 400 hours on something before critically reviewing or comparing it. My Lynx AES16 and Juli@ that share a common DAC are in different computers, using different OS (XP and Vista) and software players (cMP/cPlay and XXHighEnd) so it not possible to isolate any sonic differences to just the interfaces. Perhaps I will compare the Juli@ and the HiFace on the same Vista computer running XXHighEnd sometime later next month.

 

My other two Juli@ cards are in virtually identical XP music servers but my focus here was to compare sonic effects as I march down the path of the hardware and OS mods for my ultimate cMP computer. It is my intention once I accomplish my cMP goals to swap the Lynx for the Juli@ and then compare the two interfaces running on my cMP/cPlay computers. I guess I’m having too much fun comparing players, checking out other things or just listening to music.

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

The differences between transports tend to be subtle, at least in my experience, and seems to require "critical listening" skills to be able to successfully identify (much less articulate) the differences between them. In my experience (YMMV), bass is the first and most obvious place to listen for differences, and what you should try and test for is (in my idiosyncratic terminology) "tightness" in the bass. For whatever reason, the extremes of the audio band are where you'll notice most difference between any two pieces of kit as it takes the most effort to get right (after all the sacrifices already made to get the mid-range right), and since we're all deaf to varying degrees, our ability to discern differences in the high frequencies is wildly variable. So, listen for bass, not mid range and definitely not the highs. Not to say that there won't be differences in mids or highs, and if you hear differences in those regions, that's great -- just don't expect to, and that may be why you're having a hard time discriminating between sound cards.

 

In some a/b testing with a Lynx and a Legato, I heard clear improvements with the Legato over the Lynx, all else being the same (-ish). More on that elsewhere. But the upshot is that I have come to believe that the isolation provided by an off-box solution is technically superior to an on-box solution, and using an off-box solution may eliminate (or radically minimize) differences between file sources (PC v Mac, G5 v Mini, &c).

 

[manisandher]

I thought it was!

 

But that it uses proprietary drivers rather than the standard OS drivers - and hence why it's capable of 24/192.

 

I'm happy to be corrected...

 

Mani.

 

[Flange]

Berkeley are currently developing an external USB2 to AES3 converter that will provide up to 192 kHz, 24 bit signals with very high noise isolation and very low jitter. It will function asynchronously, work with Macs and PC’s - probably available mid-year.

 

Regards

 

Flange

 

[earflappin]

Thanks Flange. That is my understanding as well. Do you know if it will also offer SPDIF BNC? From what I understand of the two standards I would think SPDIF BNC would be preferable for the reasons I posted earlier.

 

[Flange]

Hi Earflappin

 

I believe the intent is to convert the usb signal to a balanced AES3 digital audio signal in an external device and only connect the isolated AES signal to the DAC - but only Berkeley can really answer that one!

 

 

[Audio_ELF]

My understanding of the HiFace was the same as yours ... async USB using proprietary drivers.

 

[earflappin]

This is from the FAQ on the GeekTweek who sells the HiFace:

 

28) Does the hiFace work in asynchronous mode?

 

Sure, the transfer of data over the USB bus happens in a totally asynchronous fashion, with respect to their retransmission to the DAC, in short packets which use all the available bus bandwidth. Actually, hiFace is master in the transmission from PC to interface. As it uses its low jitter oscillators to time the S/PDIF transmission, line jitter is totally uncorrelated to data transmission from PC to interface.

 

 

[jkeny]

Yes geektweek is correct - I got it dircetly from Marco that the HiFace clocks control the PC transmission - if you disconnect the clocks from the Xilinx the PC stops transmitting! Something of a wild statement from DavidR saying that the HiFace is "definitely" not using asynch USB without any evidence

 

[earflappin]

jkeny, I read about the sonic improvements you've been able to realize by using a lithium battery to power the critical circuits of the HiFace. It would be interesting to compare that modded HiFace to the Legato. How difficult is to do that mod?

 

[jkeny]

Yes, earflappin, this is the most direct evidence I've heard of the sonic result of lowering the clock jitter by improving the clock & other PS. The thread on DIYaudio has all the details & pics - highly recommended. PM me if you need advice/help - it would be interesting to compare it to the Legato, indeed.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

Can you post the link to the mod?

 

[earflappin]

Hehe....I was wondering when you would hit that sparkly silver lure....:-) Anyway, here's the link Scot: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4880&page=2

 

It would very cool of you to do those mods to your HiFace and compare it to the Legato! A less invasive mod is also described on that thread which involves providing a cleaner 5V supply to the HiFace via a hacked USB cable. The key for those wanting to that, however, is to preserve the ground to the PC/Mac.

 

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

that handing me a soldering iron will result in one of three things happening:

 

1. I burn out all/some of my gear

2. I burn down my house

3. I burn down nothing, everything works, and I end up modding every damn thing in range until #1 or #2 actually do happen.

 

So, I will resist. That said, I think a showdown is totally in order. Unfortunately for me, I do not have any clue as to where my HiFace went ... it's around here somewhere. LOL. I was curious about getting another one, a BNC one this time, but I'm not sure I'm going to bother given how righteous the Legato is ... however the allure of hi-res beckons ....

 

So while I'm not going to mod, I would be extremely happy to either borrow a modded one and do a head-to-head, or more interestingly, do a meet-up and do a head-to-head there. What say you all?

 

[earflappin]

Ah....so your HiFace isn't BNC. Mike Galusha in his recent Enjoy The Music review of the BNC and RCA HiFaces had this to say about their differences:

 

"The differences between the hiFace's were subtle but the BNC output resulted in more low level detail and greater sense of air and space. The BNC version seemed to present more information but was simultaneously more relaxed. I suspect this is due to a more accurate transmission of the signal since there is no impedance mismatch from the RCA plug as there are no internal differences between the RCA and BNC versions."

 

I take this to infer that perhaps a BNC HiFace might close the gap to the Legato in and of itself without the power mods.

 

Anyway, I'm up for buying a modded one from jkeny and having you A/B it versus the Legato. I have a pm into jkeny asking him about availability and cost.

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

I'd love to do the comparison. Might even have to make another trip to Richmond to do some two-system testing, if you're up for it. ;-)

 

[jkeny]

Yes, the 5V mod to the USB cable will improve the sound but it's only minor compared to the SQ improvement realised with the other PS mod - bear this in mind when doing a comparison. The BNC version in theory should be a better impedance match BUT only if you are using it with a DAC that also accepts BNC SPDIF input. Forget about it if your DAC has RCA SPDIF input.