Audio Blind Testing

[pkane2001]

13 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Are you using the same equipment when playing through headphones ?

For example, does your Power Amplifier have a headphone jack ?

Headphone implementation with power amplifiers is often sub standard, just breaking the connection to the speakers and connecting the amplifier's outputs to the headphone jack using series output resistors.

 

 

While my amps don't have an phone jack, I've made cables that connect HD650s to them in place of speakers. I've also made cables for connecting them to the balanced outputs of the DAC, which is mostly how I use them. I'm very happy with the quality of the sound (after DSP with crossfeed) and soundstage is very good with HPs, but not as deep. And with crossfeed, it's all outside of my head

 

[pkane2001]

1 minute ago, sandyk said:

 

 In this case you are nowhere near optimising what is sent to the headphones.

Most headphones need to be driven from the output impedances they were designed for.

Many newer headphones are designed to be driven from lower impedances than earlier models,. which may have been designed to meet the old IEC61938 specification that states that all headphones should be driven from a 120 ohm source impedance irrespective of their own impedance.

When you drive headphones via series output resistors from a Power Amplifier you normally  also need to attenuate the output to help preserve the signal to noise ratio, as a Power Amplifier will have a much higher residual noise output than a dedicated headphone amplifier, which also normally has a much lower level of amplification. My own DIY Class A HA for example has a gain of only just over 3 times, whereas many power amplifiers may have something like 20 times gain.

 

That may be, but I've yet to find a headphone amp that makes my HP system sound better when it's added in. 

 

 

[pkane2001]

13 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Perhaps you may get some valuable suggestions from Dale in the Headphone area of this forum ?

 I don't always agree with him, but he does have an in-depth knowledge of many headphone amplifiers and headphones. 

 

HD650s are pretty high impedance headphones (over 300 Ohms), so perhaps they work well with my DAC output, as is, but I'll ask Dale and see what he can recommend.

 

[pkane2001]

42 minutes ago, STC said:

A few discerning audiophiles I know usually listens at low volume where they "claim" they hear the separation and low level better. 

 

Those are the few remaining ones that still have their hearing intact. The rest of us listen at much higher/dangerous levels

 

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Playing the DBT hand suits those who have little faith in their senses 

 

i.e., all those familiar with how senses and perception actually work? You're right!

[pkane2001]

4 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

The senses are supremely capable of making sense of the universe, by "jumping to conclusions" all the time - it means we don't waste unnecessary energy getting things done, because we are forced to constantly analyse, thoroughly, what's going on around us. If we didn't have this happening it would be a nightmare driving, we would drenched in sweat from the concentration needed to navigate safely to the end of our journey.

 

And so it should be for listening to audio reproduction - if you have to constanly think about whether it's right or not ... well, it's wrong!! Quite simple, really ...

 

The ear/brain has to be fooled into going with the sound, not constantly catching it out as "not getting it quite right" - DBT has absolutely nothing to do with this ...

 

DBTs have everything to do with the fact that sensory perception is flawed and often fooled. DBTs are one way to eliminate at least some undue influences and to determine if a change really rises to the level audibility.

 

By your own admission, senses ‘jump to conclusions all the time’. These conclusions are frequently wrong and this makes a more controlled test a must. 

[pkane2001]

53 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Senses "‘jump to conclusions" to save time, and effort. If they were "frequently wrong", in driving say, the road toll would be catastrophic - they "get it right", mostly, because the universe is highly predictable, and stable, in its 'rules'.

 

And where they are usually most reliable is if they sense that "something is not quite right" - the flag has been raised to ensure that you take more notice, and so you hear unpleasant, distorted playback - this is something we don't want.

 

A change either does nothing significant, or it makes you more aware of the the playback being 'fake', or not - as triggered by those senses. That's how I work ... being aware of a difference, as an intellectual exercise, is of no relevance to the main goal - which in my case is to get the most out of the playback of recordings.

 

Senses evolved to improve our survival chances. They take shortcuts to quickly save the skin of their owner.

 

I’m not aware of any survival or evolutionary benefit to hearing the difference between audio components. If anything, that skill would likely be counterproductive, reducing the chances of the owner to reproduce, if only because the opposite sex does not appreciate their mate spending hours in front of an electronic contraption producing loud and often disturbing sounds  

 

“Not now honey, I just got a new SPDIF cable I must really try!”  also does not help to elevate our evolutionary fitness level.

 

[pkane2001]

7 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

Modern women have been so spoiled by this increasingly gynocentric society that they generally don't appreciate anything that their spouses do that takes attention off of them. I've never seen a wife who approved of any hobby that their husbands enjoy. They especially resent the hubby spending money on said hobby when that money (according to them) would be better spent on wifey's "nest"! Spoiled brats, that's what they are. They marry some guy, stay with him till he's reasonably successful, then divorce the poor schlepp and take him to the cleaners. He ends up living in a cheap trailer park or a room somewhere, driving a beater, while the ex gets the nice house, the Audi, the country club membership, and most of the ex-hubby's income. The thing that gets me, is that many of us guys are so stupid, that after being taken to the cleaners by the rigged court system, they turn around and get married again! These people gamble with their lives on odds that they would't even play with their disposable income in Vegas!

 

For the record, I disagree completely! (Oh, hi honey! I had no idea you were also reading CA! )

 

[pkane2001]

5 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

My better half is actually putting the pressure on at the moment for getting the "good stuff", in audio, happening again - it's been on hold for a while, for a number of reasons. We run it loud, so it fills the whole house; IOW, realistic levels - it has to be in good shape, so that anything can be put on, with no annoyance being registered at the choice of material.

 

 

Frank, pinch yourself; are you sure you are not dreaming?

 

[pkane2001]

6 minutes ago, esldude said:

Whether you think it has been achieved or not, do believe in principle that there are limits to transparency to be achieved?

 

There are no such limits. Every change counts and you must replace every part in a vendor's implementation of a component to achieve the greatest possible transparency. Replace all wires, fuses, power cords, capacitors and resistors, transformers, etc., just to be sure.

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, STC said:

Why stop there? We can also get better ears. 

 

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/11/this-hearing-aid-might-actually-be-better-than-a-human-ear/

 

Why  bother when my golden ears are already so much better than any technology (as I heard so many times here, on CA)? 

 

Hearing aids are primarily designed to improve speech recognition, and so focus on a very specific part of audio spectrum. They are mostly unsuitable for music listening, at least IME with my 88-year old father. An EQ capability in a hearing aid might help in that respect.

[pkane2001]

1 hour ago, mav52 said:

 

But I'm just glad there is a device that allows people with poor hearing to be able to listen to music they play and music they can hear.

Completely agree, although a nice DSP/convolution engine that works with REW, built-in to a hearing aid would be a nice addition  Maybe a real HQPlayer embedded edition?

 

[pkane2001]

44 minutes ago, esldude said:

You left me with the impression earlier that one could move around the room and sustain this.  Not leaning one's head, but moving over to the right and the left.  Never heard such a thing, and if that happened something weird is going on.  

 

That's been my impression, as well, apparently confirmed by Frank's answers to my questions. @fas42, would it be too much to ask you to describe your method in detail, something that others could understand and try to repeat? A recipe perhaps? After reading many of your posts, I'm now confused as to what it is you do and advocate frequently.