Is there any Device as good as or better than the LUMIN D1

[beerandmusic]

 

Given:

 

a) supports gapless dsd

b) $2000 and under

c) one box solution (network player and dac)

d) roon ready

e) good reviews

[beerandmusic]

Also to add, I believe (but unsure) that any DLNA renderer is roon ready (may not be certified?) but any renderer can be used with roon?  Is that a correct statement?

 

If that is a true statement then option D could simply be supports DLNA which all network players do....so checkpoints could be reduced to simply:

 

A) supports gapless DSD

B) $2000 and under

C) one box solution (network player and dac)

D) good reviews

 

[beerandmusic]

I also believe any DAC that also has a network interface (e.g. the TEAC NT503 would qualify)?

 

[mav52]

I've have both the A1 and the D1 and with an external power supply the D1 is hard to beat for the price and the support is great.  The Lumin app well it just works.

[beerandmusic]

1 minute ago, mav52 said:

I've have both the A1 and the D1 and with an external power supply the D1 is hard to beat for the price and the support is great.  The Lumin app well it just works.

 

I have just started researching the LUMIN....do you have to do APPLE to configure it?  I don't have any apples in the house?!

[Dr Tone]

51 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Also to add, I believe (but unsure) that any DLNA renderer is roon ready (may not be certified?) but any renderer can be used with roon?  Is that a correct statement?

 

No.  Roon doesn't support DLNA.  Their developers feel it's inherently flawed and they wouldn't be able to give their users the experience they wanted if they used DLNA.  Thus they developed RAAT, their own network transport.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-wrong-with-upnp/2101/3?u=rugby

[beerandmusic]

29 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

No.  Roon doesn't support DLNA.  Their developers feel it's inherently flawed and they wouldn't be able to give their users the experience they wanted if they used DLNA.  Thus they developed RAAT, their own network transport.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/whats-wrong-with-upnp/2101/3?u=rugby

 

So to clarify if a network device does not support "RAAT" then it won't work with roon?

 

Also, are there any devices that support RAAT, but are not certified (e.g. the device includes RAAT support but manufacturer decided not to pay royalties to get the ROON certification)?

 

If they don't support DLNA, This is a big mistake imho.  Flawed or not, I am sure they are losing millions if not billions by not supporting it....my guess is that if they don't support it, they can market what they want, but the truth is they just don't have the engineering "yet" to figure it out....otherwise it would be very stupid not to support it....but then again, they are so stupid to still not support folder structure browsing.  They have been promising it for years....they need better engineers, and better admin to insist on things potential customers want.

 

DLNA is supported by almost every main audio company that has network capability, but it is too flawed for ROON....give me a break.......granted, i think DLNA has it's issues, but it is as mainstream as we got....they are idiots to not accept industry standards.....I was still on the fence about roon, but if they don't ever have any plans of supporting DLNA, then I will likely stick with Jriver....unless on the offshoot that RAAT becomes the industry standard that DLNA is....which i doubt will ever happen.

 

 

[Dr Tone]

3 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

So to clarify if a network device does not support "RAAT" then it won't work with roon?

 

Also, are there any devices that support RAAT, but are not certified (e.g. the included support but not pay royalties to get the ROON certification)?

 

If they don't support DLNA, This is a big mistake imho.  Flawed or not, I am sure they are losing millions if not billions by not supporting it....my guess is that if they don't support it, they can market what they want, but the truth is they just don't have the engineering "yet" to figure it out....otherwise it would be very stupid not to support it....but then again, they are so stupid to still not support folder structure browsing.  They have been promising it for years....they need better engineers.

 

 

No they support airplay.  They also support certain hardware like Sonos and Squeezeboxen.

 

Not supporting DLNA is fine in my books.  It's crap and they've made an educated decision not to support it, their RAAT protocol offers the user much more such as synced zones for one.  Assuming they don't have the ability to figure out an open protocol is pretty naive on your part.  Brian and company at Roon are some exceptionally smart developers and this praise is coming from someone that writes software for living.

 

Just buy a used Ayre Codex already and enjoy some of the most sublime sounding music you will ever get from a DAC under 2k.  I've said it before, IMO there is no better sounding DAC on the market for under 2k.

[beerandmusic]

16 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

No they support airplay.  They also support certain hardware like Sonos and Squeezeboxen.

 

Not supporting DLNA is fine in my books.  It's crap and they've made an educated decision not to support it, their RAAT protocol offers the user much more such as synced zones for one.  Assuming they don't have the ability to figure out an open protocol is pretty naive on your part.  Brian and company at Roon are some exceptionally smart developers and this praise is coming from someone that writes software for living.

 

Just buy a used Ayre Codex already and enjoy some of the most sublime sounding music you will ever get from a DAC under 2k.  I've said it before, IMO there is no better sounding DAC on the market for under 2k.

 

>>>  Brian and company at Roon are some exceptionally smart developers and this praise is coming from someone that writes software for living.

 

They are not that brilliant if they have been promising folder browsing for a couple years now....

I am not going to argue the merits of RAAT over DLNA, but the fact that they are leaving a lot of money on the table by not supporting DLNA is their stupidity, especially if they say that it is inferior....is airplay, sonos, and squeezebox not inferior to RAAT?  They support those because of marketability....

 

Even if they believe RAAT is superior (which i don't doubt),, why not give the DLNA option and open their customerbase.  I am sure they must believe that airplay is flawed (doesn't even support DSD), but they support it...what is their rationale? 

 

It's not because DLNA is flawed....that is their marketing hype....All the big names support DLNA

Either one of the two is true

A) they don't have the engineering to support DLNA "yet"

or

B) they are ignorant.

 

 

[beerandmusic]

9 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

Just buy a used Ayre Codex already and enjoy some of the most sublime sounding music you will ever get from a DAC under 2k.  I've said it before, IMO there is no better sounding DAC on the market for under 2k.

 

Does it support network and have usb galvanic isolation?

I will be patient...you might hear a lot of whining from me, but I will be patient...i know something is coming around the corner that I will want to buy.

 

[beerandmusic]

Another possibility as to the REAL reason they don't support DLNA is because they might make a decent amount of income by charging royalties for RAAT certification, that if they supported DLNA, they wouldn't get....but i think that would be a big mistake, as I would guess by opening up their customer base by supporting DLNA would encourage a LOT more revenue by way of more subscribers than what they get for charging their certifications....think volume...those people are idiots.  Think about how many roon subscribers they may gain if they allowed roon right to the AVR....but maybe they were stupid and signed exclusive rights to NAD.....who knows whatever the real reason is...but i promise you it's not because DLNA is flawed, no matter what they want the general public to believe.

[beerandmusic]

^^^ sorry for soapbox rant...back to topic at hand....I guess since ROON doesn't support DLNA, that I am back to my original quest of...

 

 

Is there any device as good as the LUMIN D1 that meets these checkmarks.

 

A) supports gapless DSD over network

B) $2000 and under

C) one box solution (network player/streamer and dac)

D) good reviews

E) either ROON ready (RAAT) or JRiver Ready (DLNA) or Windows AP or browser support (e.g. no smartphone only)

[Dr Tone]

1 hour ago, beerandmusic said:

Does it support network and have usb galvanic isolation?

 

No, but IMO it will sound better than any DAC <$1000 with network and usb galvanic isolation.  But your priorities are elsewhere.

 

Back on topic I've never seen anything but praise for Lumin in my various forum wondering.

[beerandmusic]

15 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

No, but IMO it will sound better than any DAC <$1000 with network and usb galvanic isolation.  But your priorities are elsewhere.

 

Back on topic I've never seen anything but praise for Lumin in my forum wondering.

you mean under $2K?  The NT503 is decent, and that would probably be what i would buy (a second time) if i wasn't willing to wait or to continue to research....

 

I am not spending $2K on a USB only dac if it doesn't have galvanic or some noise suppressing capabilities....don't want to have to buy a 2nd toy to do what the dac should do.....maybe Ayre Codex v2 next year.

 

I don't think my priorities are out of line....

$2k for a usb dac that has noise suppression and supports native dsd, seems very doable imho.

That or decent network capable dac (or music player with embedded dac, whatever you want to call it....

 

I do appreciate your input though...and the fact that you have only heard praise for the LUmin is also apreciated.....right now, I think the LUMIN D1is my #1 contender for my next attempt. 

 

What do you mean by your forum?  Do you have your own website?

 

[Dr Tone]

2 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

What do you mean by your forum?  Do you have your own website?

 

I fixed my statement.  Various forum wondering.

 

I've said it before, I think your focus on technical requirements it misguided but it's your money not mine.

[beerandmusic]

5 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

I fixed my statement.  Various forum wondering.

 

I've said it before, I think your focus on technical requirements it misguided but it's your money not mine.

Can you clarify this statement?

 

Are you saying that it is stupid to expect usb noise reduction circuitry for a usb dac?  I think Schiit is leading the way in this endeavor.  I EXPECT to see it in ALL future USB dacs $500 and above.

 

Beyond that, I believe network capable dacs have more SQ potential than usb dacs...and almost everyone agrees that has done any research.

 

Yes, it is my money.

 

[Dr Tone]

5 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Can you clarify this statement?

 

Are you saying that it is stupid to expect usb noise reduction circuitry for a usb dac?  I think Schiit is leading the way in this endeavor.  I EXPECT to see it in ALL future USB dacs $500 and above.

 

I think you should worry about finding the best sounding DAC within your budget.  USB noise reduction doesn't make a DAC sound the best.  Ignore all Decrapifier threads the world is a happy place.

[beerandmusic]

10 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

 

I think you should worry about finding the best sounding DAC within your budget.  USB noise reduction doesn't make a DAC sound the best.  Ignore all Decrapifier threads the world is a happy place.

that's exactly what i am doing.....to my ears, the best sounding so far has always been native dsd over network...that is why i don't worry "as much" about noise reduction for network capable dacs.  but playing native dsd over even the cheapest network capable dac has beat more expensive usb dacs.  I may be wrong, but i am equating that to usb noise....why else would dsd over network sound better than dsd over usb if not for noise....plus with so many people saying how eliminating usb noise with their toys has made a big difference, i have to believe that USB has inherent noise issues.

 

so if i am going to try yet another usb dac, then it will have noise reduction circuitry....but I am leaning toward a network capable dac now.  The hans channel is head-over-heals with SOTM ultra, and i would probably try that route, but I want a one box solution.  My own personal testing, i am a believer in network capable dacs, plus I trust the Hans channel guy.

 

[beerandmusic]

 

[Dr Tone]

That basically blows your $1000 DAC budget and you don't get a DAC.

 

Lumin D1 looks like the perfect solution for you, go for it.

[beerandmusic]

6 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

That basically blows your $1000 DAC budget and you don't get a DAC.

 

Lumin D1 looks like the perfect solution for you, go for it.

I have a $2K budget...the reason i even mention the sotm ultra is because I am suggesting that i believe that network SQ potential is greater than usb potential, not that I was considering the sotm ultra.  (i know i could get the standard sotm and cheap dac in my $2k budget, but like i said, i am looking for a one box soution.

 

I may very well go for the LUMIN D1, as my next attempt.

[beerandmusic]

Hmmmmm....something else to research...

 

 

[mav52]

3 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

 

I have just started researching the LUMIN....do you have to do APPLE to configure it?  I don't have any apples in the house?!

When I first got my units apple was about it with support for ipads and iphones.  But I think Lumin has recently released an Android app noted here, http://www.audioshark.org/lumin-169/lumin-android-app-8525.html

[beerandmusic]

I read that the auralic line now supports web control.

 

That may be of interest.  I will post a separate thread about the auralic altair if it does include web control for but setup and playing....if so, that could be a contender for me?!

 

[Kelly]

I second the vote for Ayre Codex, especially of you have any interest in headphone use. If you need network and especially Roon connectivity, get an Allo USBridge to use with it and just be happy. The Allo is so good it makes it seem silly to spend significantly more on a streaming source, especially because the change is so rapid in that area.