FORGETTING the Digital to Analog conversion part, what is BEST Digital source?

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Funny how DBTs show, more often than not, that the 'not-so-subtle' differences heard sighted were just made up by the brain.

 

 

 Yes, they tend to do that, even when there are REAL differences !

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

And you prove that there is a REAL difference how?

 

 

The problem is that they are more often than not, set up to prove someone wrong, not prove them correct .  

 They need to be performed at the original location using the same equipment and software as they were originally heard with, under relaxed conditions, and with the person making the claim deciding on the volume settings, the interval between changes, and the length each selection is played for.

 

 I will not be drawn further into this murky and highly contentious area, as you clearly have your own agenda here about Audiophiles in general.

BYE !

[sandyk]

42 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Interestingly, that's exactly not what I do.

 

 Actually, I do pretty  much what you do, however there are several members here that are hell bent on proving almost every Subjective report as false.

[sandyk]

34 minutes ago, wgscott said:

There is actually a completely innocent reason for this.

 

 Pull the other leg, it whistles !

 Seriously though , there are several members here, just as in other forums, that require someone making a claim to perform an infinite number of repeat tests  that the claimant is simply not willing to perform, unless perhaps there is a wad of cash  riding on the results, and I don't mean the pittance that one member here keeps offering.

Anybody who has ever performed a lengthy series of DBTs as I did years ago would understand why.

I ended up with elevated BP and rotten headaches due to the stress of numerous repeats, involving over 20 different recordings, each in 3 separate folders where the names of the pairs of tracks were changed by a computer program.

I ended up adding an additional reference file from my own PC to help with the identification, but neither of the tracks generated by the auto program, which involved shuffling the tracks from a supplied USB memory stick between a couple of HDDs during the renaming progress sounded quite the same as the new Reference .wav file.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, barrows said:

@pkane2001, I suspect the reason that it may appear to some that you have an agenda, is that some, who may have spent many years developing their listening skills, may feel insulted when you come along and suggest that they are hearing things which are not there.  It is the height of arrogance to make such suggestions, especially when you do not have the details of these person's listing experiences and skill levels.

Listen testing is a learned skill, developed over many, many hours of practice.  And casually dismissing a person's skill which may have been developed over many years is disrespectful.  It is fine to speak of your own experiences in this regard, but blindly dismissing other's experience is not OK in my book.

 

 In my case, as a young Technician at Chatswood Telephone Exchange in Sydney, I was first exposed to high quality Vinyl playback from the National Broadcaster (ABC) via >15K equalised program lines going North through the Exchange to Newcastle. The Senior techs had replaced the normal monitoring amplifier and speakers with much higher quality items.

(AM Radio from the ABC was 15K bandwidth back in those days)

Much later we had a couple of commercial FM stereo feeds through us before they started using automated .MegaPoop3  carts and tried to sound the loudest on the FM band.

 

Alex

 

 P.S.

 After realising how much better the source material was, before normal AM radio reception, this led to an interest in higher quality TRF (Tuned Radio Frequency) receivers, followed later by a DIY Homodyne  Tuner that used a PLL to lock onto the stations' Carriers.

[sandyk]

56 minutes ago, marce said:

Nope, not true.

 

It is presently true because we don't yet know all of the aspects of human hearing that need to be measured, and their complete relevance to what the brain processes, especially as the ears are normally not identical in sensitivity, frequency and phase response etc., or dynamic range.

Yes, we are much further advanced these days, and know the basics, but we aren't completely there yet.

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, marce said:

While it takes me a while to set up and run a blind test, it's worth it in my experience, and I enjoy it almost as much as any other part of my audiophile addiction

 

 That's fine when it's just you and a couple of friends, but other people will never accept those results as definitive .

Neither will they accept results of numerous repeats unless they were done by their own peers, in the case of E.E.s  ,

and even then some are likely to find problems with the methodology if the results don't go the way they believe that they should have  !

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

other people??

 

 Many other people are unlikely to accept these results unless they hear them for themselves.

 Even then, In some cases ,they will later manage to convince themselves that they were mistaken because the results do not tie in with currently accepted science. In one such case, an E.E friend thought he heard differences just like the others present reported, then changed his mind the next day. It took a later demonstration at his own house using his speakers and amplifier to finally convince him that what he heard originally was correct.

[sandyk]

10 minutes ago, mansr said:

Hell is other people.

Perhaps I will meet you both there one day ?

[sandyk]

The 3 of us ?

It may help to explain a few things !

[sandyk]

8 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

where can you find the data sheet or info on the nt503?  I am just curious if the ethernet part of the nt503 is just as good as sonore...barrows says sonore supports dsd512, but i dont know if that the nt503 supports only up to dsd5.6mhz as result of dac portion or enet portion?

 

 

 Unless a manufacturer makes a big deal about them using a special Xtal Oscillator module or other special features such as Ethernet , you are unlikely to find it on their web site. You would need to contact the manufacturer directly .

You may also find this information in the owner's manual, which can often be downloaded by prospective purchasers.

[sandyk]

46 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

...They do advertise torroidal transformers to reduce noise...

 

 Toroidal transformers are normally used for their efficiency and low cost.

There are better transformers such as R Core transformers if you want less noise.

Less power supplies/ voltage regulation is a recipe for poorer performance in devices like DACs where for best results you need to separate the power for the Digital and Analogue areas.

[sandyk]

17 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Does sonore use rcore?

If not, maybe they should try it?

 

I don't know. You would need to ask Barrows that.

John Swenson likes R-Cores though!

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, barrows said:

EI core, and flat packs with separate winding bobbins are much better at isolating AC line noise from their outputs because the windings are separated by some space.

 

Agreed.  They have much less capacitive coupling between the Primary and Secondary windings, but a small drawback is  their lower efficiency.

[sandyk]

23 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

I personally would be willing to pay a lot more if products were given a ranking based on DBT.

 

Just because a panel preferred the sound of one product over another under non sighted conditions doesn't necessarily prove it is superior to another. The preferred product may have sounded a little warmer, which many like, due to a higher percentage of even order harmonics, as with many Vacuum Tube amplifiers.

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

 

i never said it was...and on the contrary, i don't think either is superior...

 

 

 I wasn't just referring to SS vs. Valve. Some SS amplifiers such as several designs by Aspen Audio from Melbourne (  DIY Audio member Hugh Dean) deliberately enhance the fairly low even order harmonic distortion for a slightly warmer sound which some prefer.  Measurements should also accompany any such DBT comparisons.