Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[left channel]

@Fella55 thanks for the report! For Tidal streaming I use only the Tidal app, and the 2.12 update plus a recent update to the Tidal app fixed MQA dropouts for me. I believe on the Roon forums you'll find some finger-pointing as to whether Roon or Pro-Ject is to blame for continued Tidal MQA dropouts via Roon, but it's clear to me this can only be fixed in the DAC and may require both companies working together or at least require Pro-Ject to include Roon software in their test plans. Originally it was only tested with Foobar2000.

 

In December I included, in my requests and recommendations for the Pro-Ject support manager, the suggestion of Roon testing and support. He stopped replying at that point, and has never told me what they are going to do or have done anyway — he just posts announcements on Facebook, then tells people who contact him on Facebook to use email, then replies inconsistently — but hey fingers crossed.

[Kilauea50]

20 minutes ago, Fella55 said:

Intel NUC arrived earlier and installed roon ROCK. Running the 14 day trial of roon.

 

 

Using the USB output on the ROCK direct into the S2 at the moment.

 

Had a quick test with my laptop and headphones;

 

Seems to be working OK, however I've noticed some MQA dropouts already, but this may be to do with the fact that all my music is indexing. I have the firmware updated to 2.12 which I know still has some issues. Will wait patiently for the next release.

 

 

I have not had a single issue to this point using Miska's recommended settings for the S2.  I changed the audio settings from Best to User and I am using the fast roll of filter.  It really does sound nice too.  Give that a try

[left channel]

1 minute ago, Kilauea50 said:

I have not had a single issue to this point using Miska's recommended settings for the S2.  I changed the audio settings from Best to User and I am using the fast roll of filter.  It really does sound nice too.  Give that a try

 

With Roon? That's the issue there. I went back a couple pages but didn't see a post stating you're using Roon. 

[Fella55]

Hi @Kilauea50

 

I've changed the filter to Fast Roll Off, but when I go to the Audio Settings I only have two options, Best and Test (no User option)? Is this only available when playing MQA files?

 

Only really playing MQA because I can. Most of my music is CD quality (FLAC) and Tidal HiFi.

 

 

[Kilauea50]

19 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

With Roon? That's the issue there. I went back a couple pages but didn't see a post stating you're using Roon. 

Yes with Roon.  I have had zero issues in Roon.  I had the S2 set on the Best audio setting until I read Miska's suggestion and tried that.  I actually enjoy 2 filters but I disable DSP in Roon for MQA playback.  My experience has been exceptional 

[Fella55]

21 minutes ago, left channel said:

@Fella55 thanks for the report! For Tidal streaming I use only the Tidal app, and the 2.12 update plus a recent update to the Tidal app fixed MQA dropouts for me. I believe on the Roon forums you'll find some finger-pointing as to whether Roon or Pro-Ject is to blame for continued Tidal MQA dropouts via Roon, but it's clear to me this can only be fixed in the DAC and may require both companies working together or at least require Pro-Ject to include Roon software in their test plans. Originally it was only tested with Foobar2000.

 

In December I included, in my requests and recommendations for the Pro-Ject support manager, the suggestion of Roon testing and support. He stopped replying at that point, and has never told me what they are going to do or have done anyway — he just posts announcements on Facebook, then tells people who contact him on Facebook to use email, then replies inconsistently — but hey fingers crossed.

Thanks, I'm using the iPad as a control point mainly, hence using roon. I will see how it goes as it's working perfectly fine or everything else which is 99% of my content! I will try and report any issues/fixes I find (if any). Need it all to settle in before i go changing too many things.

[left channel]

@Fella55 I'll copy in my post from a few pages back to help explain what @Kilauea50 means. Miska recommends turning enabling Distortion Compensation and using the Fast Rolloff filter, but note my last paragraph: Distortion Compensation works at all times, however the filters do not work during MQA playback per Meridian licensing requirements.

-----

The Audio Quality menu has three possible settings: "Best", "Test", and "User".

• "Best" is the way John Westlake, the designer of this DAC, likes the sound: Distortion Compensation is disabled and the filter is Optimal Transient.
• "Test" matches the best results from John's test lab instruments: Distortion Compensation is enabled and the filter is Brickwall.
• "User" will be displayed if you go into the menus to individually adjust those options yourself.

Distortion Compensation works in MQA mode and I leave it on at all times, however the filters are disabled during MQA playback.

[Fella55]

@left channel thank you for the clarification.

 

However I only have two options available in Audio Quality, Best and Test? Not sure how to access the User option?

 

I have switched Distortion Compensation On.

[left channel]

@Fella55 when you change something in another menu, then if you go back and look at Audio Quality it will display "User". Miska recommends turning Distortion Compensation on and setting the filter to Fast Rolloff.  After you do that you'll see "User" if you look. (I leave Distortion Compensation on at all times, but as I said the filters are disabled during MQA playback per Meridian licensing rules.)

[Fella55]

@left channel AH! I get it now. I was playing an MQA file at the time so filter was disabled, thus meaning not on the User setting.

 

Just took me a while to get used to the menu system!

[left channel]

@Fella55 no worries, if this stuff just worked we'd have nothing to talk about here. (Oh wait... we'd talk about music.  :-)

 

Looking forward to hearing whether you still get MQA dropouts! 

[Fella55]

Silly question... If i play an MQA file and then back to a regular file, I assume the previously selected filter (Fast Roll Off) and Distortion compensation will be reinstated at that point?

[left channel]

21 minutes ago, Fella55 said:

Silly question... If i play an MQA file and then back to a regular file, I assume the previously selected filter (Fast Roll Off) and Distortion compensation will be reinstated at that point?

 

Not a silly question at all, since the bug fix we're waiting for concerns exactly that. Distortion Compensation never turns off, and the filters do come back inline when you go back to a non-MQA file. But right now in 2.12, when when we have the Optimal Transient filter selected something goes wrong when playing an MQA file and then a regular file, resulting in poor thin-sounding playback. I do not hear the same problem with Fast Rolloff, and have not tested the others. When this problem occurs you can fix it by changing the filter (to the next one, or all the way back round to the original).

[Fella55]

Ah I see. It's not until you have the product and actually use it that you realise how these things affect the user experience! Must have read these comments two or three times i and didn't get it until now!

 

Pretty sure I have it set up now so I don't have to touch it again, pending firmware update notwithstanding. Music Activity all configured on my Harmony remote. Then i choose which control device to use with roon, iPad, Android tablet, PC or laptop!

 

(excuse the child related mess!)

[left channel]

@Fella55 looks great, kid mess and all. Hope to hear you no longer have MQA dropouts. I don't have Roon so can't test that.

 

On a positive note, I recently purchased a Logitech Squeezebox Touch on eBay. It's in new condition but the sound was terrible - very rough highs and lows - so I connected my Pre Box S2 Digital to the coaxial output and that cleared it right up.

 

Clearly streamers have advanced a great deal in the last several years — I have LMS on a microJukebox serving an ultraRendu as well as computers and handheld devices around the house, and those all sound great — but decided to add the Touch as a visitor-friendly stoopid-simple solution in the basement. The amp is a very loud Marshall Stanmore active speaker that also plugs into or pairs with whatever phone or tablet visitors may have in their pockets.

 

I will try upgrading the Touch power supply, and if I still need an external DAC I'll look for one more appropriately priced for this situation, but for now the little S2 has saved the day. My sound signature preferences aside, as I've said from the beginning it's a competent little performer that punches well above its weight class.

 

 

Hidden behind the amp,  where random guests can't get to it:

[firedog]

SBT should sound okay to good, but not great. Certainly not be something you wouldn't be willing to listen to. Must be something not right with yours. 

[left channel]

7 minutes ago, firedog said:

SBT should sound okay to good, but not great. Certainly not be something you wouldn't be willing to listen to. Must be something not right with yours. 

 

Thanks, I'll keep you posted as I upgrade the power supply, and maybe I'll also grab another another used Touch off eBay for comparison and for eventual use in the kitchen. I should probably start another thread when I do that, and will alert you.

[Fella55]

I have so many potential upgrades. I'm using the standard power supplies for both the NUC and S2, plus I'm using an Amazon Basics USB cable  !

 

Still, I wanted this setup as a proof of concept so didn't want to break the bank initially. If it works out I've plenty of scope to improve the setup. 

 

Which would you upgrade first? PSUs or USB cable? Or add something like a jitterbug or something more substantial like an ifi iUSB3.0? Alternatively there as NAA's like Sonore and SOtM but I see this as a longer term goal. 

[left channel]

29 minutes ago, Fella55 said:

I have so many potential upgrades. I'm using the standard power supplies for both the NUC and S2, plus I'm using an Amazon Basics USB cable  !

 

Still, I wanted this setup as a proof of concept so didn't want to break the bank initially. If it works out I've plenty of scope to improve the setup. 

 

Which would you upgrade first? PSUs or USB cable? Or add something like a jitterbug or something more substantial like an ifi iUSB3.0? Alternatively there as NAA's like Sonore and SOtM but I see this as a longer term goal. 

 

A PSU first, for the largest potential improvement. The designer of this product recommends linear or battery PSUs only. An anti-jitter acessory second. A USB cable only if there's something wrong with the Amazon one IMHO.  SOtM and Sonore streamers are little computers with their own quirks and personalities, amazing products but only worth the time and trouble for remote setups, again IMHO.

[Mihail IOV]

1 hour ago, left channel said:

 

A PSU first, for the largest potential improvement. The designer of this product recommends linear or battery PSUs only. An anti-jitter acessory second. A USB cable only if there's something wrong with the Amazon one IMHO.  SOtM and Sonore streamers are little computers with their own quirks and personalities, amazing products but only worth the time and trouble for remote setups, again IMHO.

I agree with possible upgrades as I'm using the S2 with the Mac Mini and a Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable. I also bought a Supra USB cable, which I think sounds the same as the other. The S2 is power supplied by an iFi iPower which also is ok. The battery power bank is not a good solution because it is not a true silent battery. Inside it is fitted a regulator, which is not liniar and induce a lot of noise (if you read reviews about this kind of devices with real measurements you'll see what I'm talking about).

 

For me, the S2 used for listening only through line-out from Tidal and local library (SACD, FLAC) in both Windows 10 and MacOS is an excelent device. The only things that bother me but not a real concern are the bug discovered when playing MQA files through Tidal in Optimal Transient filter and the drop-outs in Tidal when playing MQAs.

I want to mention that the drop-outs are always on some MQA albums but not all, there are albums that don't have a single glitch no matter if I play random songs or entire album. The drop-outs are present no matter the operating sistem (Windows or MacOS) or software (Tidal app or Audirvana, I'll try Roon but I'll bet the behavior will be the same). The fw is 2.12 and the latest drivers in windows. I presume that the problem is either in Tidal (again, there are MQA albums that never have glitches) or inside S2 (maybe some XMOS handshake trouble).

 

I'm waiting to see the products teased by Pro-ject, the liniar power supply and the battery power supply and the prices. 

I'm also considering a USB reclocker/regenerator that purifies the usb signal delivered by my Mac.

[Fella55]

On 02/02/2018 at 4:10 PM, left channel said:

Looking forward to hearing whether you still get MQA dropouts!

 

@left channel just to report in than since making changes as advised I've not experienced any MQA dropouts. Maybe too early to tell but I've played 2-3 albums without issue so far. Everything seems stable now, including my ROCK install.

 

I feel in a position to forget about the hardware and enjoy the music! 

 

Thank you for all your help! 

 

Edit - I'm still looking at power supply upgrades. Considering and HDPLEX 200W which would power my S2, ROCK and also my router / switch.  Any thoughts on this "all in one" over multiple others? The idea would be to achieve simplicity, reduce power outlet use and cost (in the long run). 

[left channel]

@Fella55 thanks for the report! Glad to have some good news during this frustrating time awaiting the next firmware update. That's all I want to do at this point too: forget about the hardware and enjoy the music!

The HDPLEX power supply looks like a great value, but I have no opinion beyond saying external power is good and external linear power is better than what you'll get out of most switching PSUs. Looking forward to seeing your report if you the HDPLEX 200W.

[Jamesroy]

How do I get taken off this post?

[Fella55]

@Jamesroy you can click "ignore this topic" at the top of the page...

 

 

[fgribas]

Hello, can someone confirm if it's a bug or I'm a lucky one with a hardware problem?

 

Does your Distortion Compensate setting remains ON if you power off and power on the unit?

On my device, all the settings are retained (input, filter, volumes), expect for Distortion Compensate, which always comes back to OFF.