Sonore - Audirvana Plus 3.1 Output Mode

[barrows]

Hey guys.  This is awesome, I just dowloaded A 3.1 and the A remote for iPad, and had the entire thing up and running within a few short minutes, streaming everything as DSD2 to my Signature Rendu SE.  Easiest set up ever, and appears to be working quite well.

What a great option for those who prefer Audirvana's playback algos and oversampling options.

[barrows]

I have no issues with Linn Kazoo myself.  I find it a great interface and works flawlessly in my system for MPD/DLNA playback. Love that it shows sample rates and infos, and has the ability to browse by album cover.

[barrows]

36 minutes ago, klweds said:

 

To be clear, the Sonore Signature Rendu (SPDIF/I2S) does not currently work at all with Audirvana 3.1. The software sees the renderer as an output option but FLAC and DSF fail to play; Audirvana simply skips to the next track until the playlist ends. DSF creates some nasty pops on my system.

Perhaps it would be more clear to say that Audirvana Ethernet streaming works with all current Sonore Ethernet streaming products.

[barrows]

klweds:  Glad you are liking it.  The SSR with SPDIF and I2S is an excellent device.  BTW, although it is officially dis-continued, occasionally Sonore has one available, for those looking for an awesome SPDIF/I2S streaming source.

[barrows]

48 minutes ago, OldBigEars said:

In answer to my own question....it does indeed.  Switch-over to Audirvana 3.1.4 went smoothly enough and I'm just listening to a bit of Madelaine Peyroux.  Over the coming days I'll do some comparisons between Roon and Audirvana through my set up.  Naturally, I'm already loving being back with Damien's UI - but I'll let y'all know about SQ differences, if I can hear any.

I look forward to hearing your impressions.

[barrows]

6 hours ago, Em2016 said:

 

Same experience I'm having Jim.

 

So I guess this means the ultraRendu endpoint is doing the up-sampling, when using A+

If so, it makes sense that it would struggle with DSD128 up-sampling and higher, since the ultraRendu is a low powered endpoint (by design)

 

@vortecjr can correct me if I'm wrong

That does not sound right at all?  The Mac should be doing all the work when using A+ to oversample, and then sending the oversampled data to the Rendu.  If there are problems when oversampling with A+, you probably need to look into the Mac and see what is going on with memory allotment and processor usage.

[barrows]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:12 PM, Em2016 said:

 

No worries barrows - didn’t think so, hence my question :-)

 

I’ll ask Damien at A+ for help at the Mac side

 

The same Mac has no issues in terms of upsampling to DSD256 7th order with Roon - no issues with processing power.

 

Note that ROON's oversampling algorithms are far simpler, and use much less processor power and memory than  A+ (can be depending on A+ filter settings) to achieve the same level of oversampling.

[barrows]

Wait, how do you propose to oversample to DSD 512 with A+, I though that was not possible?

 

My main DAC is only capable of DSD 128, and I have zero issues playing that with the Rendu via A+, using a fairly complex set of filter settings.  

 

Mac computers have the "Activity Monitor" where you can see how much processor power and how much memory is being used, you might want to take a look at that while playing in the modes you have problems with.  Here you will be able to get an idea if your Mac is up to what you are asking of it.

 

One other thing, never test high sample rates of any kind with cold gear, make sure everything has been on and warmed up for a bit first as clocks take awhile to stabilize.

[barrows]

7 hours ago, vortecjr said:

Only if your DAC does not support native DSD on the micro/ultra. 

Jesus, I am still trying to understand this, and it might be helpful for everyone to read a full explanation here.  I think you are suggesting that for DSD 512, via Audirvana+, that the following can work:

 

1.  A+ oversamples to DSD 512

 

2. A+ packs the DSD 512 in a DoP 1411.2 kHz PCM "container"

 

3. The stream is sent out of the Mac to the Rendu as 1411.2 PCM (DoP)

 

4. The Rendu is capable of receiving the 1411.2 PCM stream and unpacking it to DSD 512

 

5. The Rendu then sends native DSD 512 to the DAC via USB

 

Is the above accurate as to how DSD 512 could work with A+ and the Rendu with a native DSD 512 capable DAC?

 

If not I do not understand how it could work, as my understanding is that a Mac cannot handle any native DSD (only DoP which to the OS is of course PCM).

[barrows]

So Jesus, you are suggesting that when streaming over Ethernet, Mac computers can output native DSD.  And you are saying that is what is happening when streaming DSD from A+, and that, if necessary, the Rendu will convert to DoP for DACs which require it?

Currently I oversample everything to DSD 128 via A+, and stream over Ethernet to the Signature Rendu SE.  I was under the impression that I was sending out DoP from the Mac, to the Rendu, but if what you seem to be suggesting is true, the Mac is actually outputting native DSD, and the Rendu is packing it as DoP.  I know my DAC is seeing DoP as it is not capable of decoding a native DSD USB data stream.

 

I also have not seen any DACs which claim to be capable of 1411.2 PCM (which of course would be necessary for DoP of DSD 512).  But I have had no problem sending DSD 256 via DoP to a DAC which can accept 705.6 PCM.

 

My confusion lies in my (apparently incorrect) assumption that Mac computers cannot output native DSD streams, as they are not compatible with .dsf, .dff, files through core audio, but perhaps A+ does enough to bypass core audio when outputting over Ethernet.

[barrows]

@vortecjr:

 

705.6 PCM carries DSD 256

 

1411.2 PCM is required for DSD 512

[barrows]

16 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Not with "native" DSD streaming. Those are DoP streaming rates.  

Yes, of course.  You mean to say that the DAC diagnostics reads PCM rates for DSD?  So instead of saying, for example instead of saying: 2.8224 MHz for DSD, the DAC diagnostic will read 88.2 kHz when outputting native DSD (1) to a DAC?

[barrows]

37 minutes ago, matthias said:

AFAIK, there is only one transfer method for DSD with Mac and Audirvana: DoP

 

http://dsd-guide.com/sites/default/files/white-papers/DoP_openStandard_1v1.pdf

 

Matt

Matt: the above link only concerns Mac's USB driver, we are discussing Ethernet streaming from the Mac here, not USB.  Initially it was my understanding that OS X and Core Audio do not handle DSD files, but from what Jesus appears to be saying, and from the link you posted, the limitation for Mac/OSX vis a vis DSD appears to only apply to the Mac USB output, and that native DSD is available via A+ and Ethernet output from Mac hardware.  At least this is what Jesus appears to be saying.

[barrows]

1 hour ago, matthias said:

barrows,

maybe you are right, but there should be one person you knows exactly:

Damien from Audirvana (or Mansr?)

 

Matt

Agreed for sure!  I am a bit confused at this point, as I always thought Macs/A+ only output DSD via DoP...

 

@mansr, @damien78: can A+ output native DSD (without DoP) (when streaming over Ethernet), to a suitable renderer and DAC?

[barrows]

4 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

As an example the resulting rate of 88.2 in DAC Diagnostics is what is used for DSD64.  

Jesus, this makes no sense to me?  If we are talking about native DSD, to the DAC, what does 88.2 KHz have to do with it?  

[barrows]

20 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

solve for r:

DSD64 = 44.1 x 64 = 2822.4 

2822.4 = r x 32

There are no bits (i.e. 32) in a native DSD stream, not sure what you are saying here.  Sure R=88.2 in your equation, but if we are sending native DSD (1) to a DAC, it should be a sample rate of 2.8224 MHz, or 2822.4 kHz (as you wrote).  Is this just some way linux looks at DSD?

 

[barrows]

9 hours ago, matthias said:

Am I right that this question has nothing to do with Sonore?

So we can move further discussion to the Audirvana 3.1 thread in the software section.

 

Matt

disagree: this is about how A+ and the Rendu products work together in delivering DSD, especially native DSD and high rate DSD, to a DAC, at least that is what I am trying to understand.

[barrows]

@Jamesroy:

 

Are you talking about Audirvana preferences?  For DoP streaming settings you need to use the sonicorbiter web interface, not A+ preferences when you are streaming (Ethernet) via A+.

 

As for Direct Mode, I am not sure that even applies when streaming via A+, that would be, a question for @damien78.

 

Note that the available settings and preferences for A+ are a little different when streaming by Ethernet vs. playing direct out.

[barrows]

Thanks Damien!

[barrows]

47 minutes ago, Jamesroy said:

Thanks so it's not set so I don't need to undo it somewhere?

 

Right, it does not apply to Ethernet streaming.  (Direct mode, that is...)

[barrows]

2 minutes ago, johnwilk said:

Ultrarendu with a network server I was dismayed by the flat sound and digital hash

First, I would find the cause of the above, as that should never be the case regardless of oversampling or not.  It sounds like there may be some underlying problem (perhaps network related)?  Before going to oversampling I would expect to get excellent performance just sending bit perfect files through the uRendu and to your DAC (the Sony).