Popular Post Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2017 I think it's time to see if we can unite in a subject that stir up a lot of feelings here at CA. It is like a new USB cable discussion. So, how about the grounding boxes? Why do they work? How could they possibly improve SQ? Considering the tons of great reviews they must work in some way, right? This thread belongs to both believers and disbelievers of grounding boxes. Let's get this hot subject sorted out ones and for all! ? Anything from scientific materials to personal ideas are most welcomed. I am a personal believer in that scientist is just a person with an extremely curious mind. Above all keep it civil and without any personal attacks or "stupid" comments please! ? louisxiawei and mozes 2 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 To start this thread off I can tell a little something about myself. I have used Entreq Cupper Minimus for almost five years and have experimented with it a lot. Before I even bought one I constructed numerous DIY grounding boxes using battery, bentonite clay, tourmalines, rose quartz, clear quartz, Himalayan salt etc etc. The closest to "the real deal" I got was my battery grounder embedded in tourmaline stones that I still use today. Still, it was'nt even close to the Entreq Minimus in performance. How come? I read about stones, grounding and grounding boxes for ages but still did'nt come close enough. What did I miss? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, esldude said: They do work. Tremendously well. For audiophiles looking for emotional support they are doing something to clean up their grounding and improve their system. The money spent validates the emotional improvements. Hmm, you mean they work or not? Any clues why they work or not? ? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, plissken said: Based on the: Instrumented data that I have seen The lack of any human, bias controlled testing They don't appear to work other than sighted. Ground means ground. I would'nt qualify that as a hard evidence against grounding boxes. Bias controlled testing! Common! Just tell me how you think they work. Not by accusing believers of being half deaf. ? carlosmante 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, esldude said: I mean exactly what I said. Electrically to improve how well your gear functions, they don't work. They will slightly degrade it. As an experiential thing for audiophiles who believe in them, and don't do listening unsighted, they work fabulously well. They also are an excellent product business-wise. Quick question. Have you tried them IRL? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: They don't work in the following ways: 1. They don't provide a safety ground 2. They don't extract and store noise from the ground plane 3. They don't filter noise 4. They don't attract stray currents or voltages (where "they find peace"! ) 5. They don't work "like a bit of mother Earth" What they might be actually doing: 1. Acting as an antenna receiving (or even broadcasting) signal 2. They might form a common ground across devices if more than one device is connected to the same grounding box/connector (resulting in more cross-talk but possibly fewer ground loops) 3. Their 'technical' explanations sound plausible to folks that don't understand how ground actually works, but sounds like gobbledygook to anyone with basic a Physics education To make it simple I will decide your questions in 1:1 and 2:1 etc. 1:1 No, not what they are suppose to do either 1:2 How do you know? Explain. 1:3 How do you know? Explain. 1:4 How do you know? Explain 1:5 How do you know? Explain 2:1 How do you know? Explain 2:2 Nothing wrong with a common ground AFAIK. 2:3 Then please explain to me as a guy that do understandfor these things! Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, plissken said: Based on the testing they can act as an antenna and introduce noise into a system. Which testings? Please post the links. Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Popular Post Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, esldude said: Nope. Didn't drink salamander hormones and chop off a finger to see if it would grow back either. I guess in some people's eyes I am unqualified to speak to the effectiveness of salamander hormones or grounding boxes. Why am I not surprised? carlosmante and Teresa 2 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Popular Post Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, plissken said: Bottom line is maybe you prefer the added noise: http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/entreq-signal-grounding-preliminary-measurements.476/page-3#post-11656 What makes you think I beleive in that post compared to me own ears? Have you tried any grounding boxes yourself? Teresa and MikeyFresh 2 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Just now, AJ Soundfield said: They work on a very simple, well know principle AJ Soundfiield. I am not surpriced to find you here! ? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 1 minute ago, plissken said: Again, I said you MAY PREFER THE ADDED NOISE. But I may NOT! ? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Kal Rubinson said: They work by having believers. You could be one as well. If you ever try one! ? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 Just now, AJ Soundfield said: I had no idea there were so many advocates for blind listening here. Bravo sir. Yes, own ears is the way to test this. No peeking, etc, etc Well, the word bias controlled testings gives me the rash! ? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, esldude said: Well if they really changed the sound, it must be a different signal getting to your speaker or headphone jacks. Otherwise it could not sound different. If you don't agree to this, then say so now, and I'll not bother any longer. It is okay if you do, I just have no basis of useful communication with you. Now if the signal is different, how is it different? So far the only measures I am aware of show increased noise. Prior to seeing any measures my prediction, and those by others would have been it acts like an antenna picking up noise, or perhaps it takes current between different chassis in which case the box and rocks have nothing to do with it. A plain wire between the gear would accomplish the same or straightening out system connections would be better. Wow esldude! I am impressed that you are actually trying to figure this out! I am not against the antenna clue at all. It is just so much negative impressions buried in that word. Tourmaline stones have really amazing properties if you start to learn about them. They are used in many different areas for their antistatic properties. Read about it. If you put pressure on tourmaline stones they'll release a lot of negatively charged ions. Think about if for a moment. Ground is negatively charged. It is right here where the puzzle starts. Why does negatively charged ions affect grounding? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: Current must pass into and through the grounding box in order for it to do any "extraction" or "storing" or "filtering". Current does not flow where there is no difference of potential. There's no potential difference between the ground plane of a device and the pile of rocks it connects to (this is easy to measure). No current reaches the box, so no charge or noise can be "stored" or "filtered" there. Even if these stray currents somehow reached the box, filtering them requires a return path to the device, otherwise what does filtering mean? There is no return path. "Storing" them requires an electrical charge to build up in the box or to be converted into some other kind of energy (light, heat, radio waves, etc.). The box is not a capacitor, there's no electrical charge built up, so nothing is stored. There's no heat coming from the box, and no light. The only possibility then, is radio waves -- i.e., it acts as an antenna. So, if the tourmaline stones realeases negatively charged ions they COULD possibly store or filter the currents? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 1 minute ago, mozes said: Honestly I am not here to dispute anyone's opinion. I honestly don't know how they work, in fact I don't really care how they work. My interest is in anything that make my system sound better and more musical, be it Grounding boxes or any other tweak no matter how voodoo or bizarre it maybe. I usually get the tweak and plug it to my system and try for a few days and then I remove it and then make a judgement. Last thing I returned was Acoustic Revive RR-888 as it made no significant improvement, subtle one only. The Entreq didnt need days, all it took was 5 min and I am still surprised how impactful it is. I can't listen to my system without grounding anymore. It sounds flat and sterile in comparison That is my opinion spot-on! Many devices will come and go in my system. The grounding boxes and the isolation transformer with floating secondary is the only ones that will stay perminant! ? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Speed Racer said: Grounding boxes and $1000 power cables.....where is Rob when you need him? Tourmaline stones and pure silver aren't cheap. Try to find them second hand, but be prepared to wait for a long while. No one will sell them off if they do not have to! 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, mansr said: Have you tried orgonite? No, but do they have the right electrical properties to be worth a shot? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, esldude said: Or quartz? Quartz is good for both grounding and micro vibrations (damping)! ? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, plissken said: LOL. The post said nothing subjectively about the ground box. It's showing what is happening if one is connected to audio equipment. If you are hearing a difference and subjectively prefer it.... It MAY be the reason you prefer it. I have got atleast +30 years of experience in this hobby. I am very confident in hearing what is noise and what is not. In terms of objective and subjective I will always prefer the subjective part. Objective is boring! Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 So, anyone got an idea why grounding boxes might work? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Just now, wgscott said: The same way prayer works to cure cancer. I'll guess you did'nt read the first post properly, right? ? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Popular Post Cornan Posted July 11, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, wgscott said: They don't. I did. Real life experiance? I think you missed the stupid part! ? Teresa and Wladimir 1 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: your OP made personal attacks if not a stupid comment I'm the OP. Do I have to explain the difference between personal attacks and stupid comments? Teresa 1 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
Cornan Posted July 11, 2017 Author Share Posted July 11, 2017 Just now, pkane2001 said: NO! Explain why not? 🎛️ Audio System Link to comment
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