Just got a Yggdrasil!

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Does he have any kind of special relationship with the competitor?

 

Do I have a special relationship with a manufacturer? Not sure what you mean by 'special', but sure, I get on with many of the Principals of the companies that produce the gear I own. Manolis at Tune Audio, Reinhard at Thöress, Thomas at Elrog, Pat at AR-T... and yes, Peter at Phasure... among others.

 

Having the ability to form relationships is the sort of skill that seems lacking in certain posters here .

 

7 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Is there a DAC maker that he advocates for as strongly as he savages Schiit?

 

7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I believe he is now a fan of @PeterSt DAC and says so online. In the past he was a big fan of the Pacific Microsonics (as am I). 

 

Oh, I have a new one now. The Altmann Attraction DAC. Only 12,000 Euros now. Bargain at twice the price. Look how I 'strongly advocated' it in this thread: DAC test - 'Old School' vs. 'New Kid'.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

28 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

You best friends with Peter , correct ? 

 

I've met Peter face-to-face exactly two times in my life. (I wish it were many, many times more because he's one of the most remarkable people I know... but there you go.) If this is your idea of 'best friends', then my earlier comment is more apt than even I could have imagined:

 

4 hours ago, manisandher said:

Having the ability to form relationships is the sort of skill that seems lacking in certain posters here .

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

5 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

By the way , he constantly brings up how much he makes and can afford . Just look at prior Yggy threads . It's annoying .i have never seen anyone else in this forum do this , ever .

 

I may have mentioned that I'm in the fortunate position to buy any DAC I want (within reason). If that irritates you... that's your problem.

 

I normally charge for my coaching services, but it seems you're in dire need of some. So here you go... this is totally for free :

 

One way of interpreting the word 'responsibility' is to break it into its two components, i.e. 'response' and 'ability'. Everyone should have the ability to respond to any stimulus in which ever way works best for everyone involved.

 

Horny, take control of your feelings towards things other people say on internet forums.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

12 minutes ago, hornytoad said:

In the states , we call people who constantly boast about what they can afford or what they earn A...... Holes . 

I don't know if they do the same in the U.K. 

 

Totally your problem. Deal with it.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

On 4/1/2017 at 7:44 PM, manisandher said:

Way too many overly-sensitive people here. You put facts and evidence forward for your point of view on something and instead of counter-argument, they come back with name-calling and ad hominem attacks.

 

Can I just say that I'm in no way pleased that what I stated a while back is being so evidently displayed in this thread. It's sad.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

4 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

besides....schiit doesnt do dsd (grin)

 

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

21 hours ago, manisandher said:

Are you a bit slow?

 

I feel bad asking Jimmy/John/Horny this now.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Wow, he is your stalker - https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/23717-schiit-yggdrasil-best-dac-available/?page=48#comment-528452

 

 

Haha... There's a part of me that's going to miss him. But why have I got a certain Vera Lynn song on my mind right now? (Perhaps only the Brits will understand what I mean.)

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

5 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Stronger than I'd seen before, but "My measurements suggest..." I would say is not quite conclusive.

 

Well, here's his comment in full:

 

Quote

When you have 24-bit data but 20-bit DACs, you need to dither those data to match the DAC. Otherwise, simply chopping off the 4 LSBs, called "truncation," reintroduces quantizing distortion. Schiit's Jason Stoddard has subsequently said that the Yggdrasil "rounds" 24-bit data but my measurements suggest that the LSBs of 24-bit data are simply truncated.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

 

[Highlight mine.]

 

To me, that "suggest" implies (suggests?) that the data is actually conclusive, but that he's being a little 'polite'. Anyway, here's the measurement he's talking about:

 

 

To me, those spikes show the result of truncation, hence increased quantization distortion, but I'm out of my depth here. Can anyone here conclude definitively that this measurement shows truncation vs. rounding?

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

 

15 hours ago, manisandher said:

... why have I got a certain Vera Lynn song on my mind right now? (Perhaps only the Brits will understand what I mean.)

 

9 hours ago, wgscott said:

It was featured at the end of Dr. Strangelove.

 

Haha...

 

Mani.

 

[manisandher]

23 minutes ago, esldude said:

I think you will see such spikes with truncation or rounding.  The exact level of them would vary a bit.  Think about it. If you have 20 bits and a 24 bit signal what is the difference in rounding to 20 bits versus truncating?  Maybe some modulation of the last two bits vs everything chopped off at 20 bits.  Both are going to result in those spikes without dither.  In one case everything below 20 bits becomes a zero.  Quantization spikes result.  In the other it becomes a zero or one LSB above zero, and both are chopping off the lowest levels and causing those spaced spikes.  One is 20 bits and maybe one is 21 bit or 20 1/2 bits. DSP basics, 24 bit signals at 20 bit without dither is a broken design.  It might work better than expected, it might even not be audible or barely audible at that level.  It isn't the characteristic of an excellent DAC design and behaviour.  On the other hand, use it with redbook sources of only 16 bit and everything would be fine. We know such behaviour compromises Spurious Free Dynamic range. We already know it is Schiit.

 

Perhaps I should have posted this also - JA's commentry in the review itself:

 

 

... 

while the noise floor lies at or below –160dBFS, a regular series of distortion components can be seen, in which the third, fifth, seventh, or ninth harmonics are highest in level. This will be due to the Yggdrasil's use of 20-bit D/A converters; the bottom four bits with 24-bit data will be truncated.

[Highlight mine.]

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

 

On 4/6/2017 at 6:08 PM, Speed Racer said:

Yes, this thread has been rendered useless. I am out too........

 

On 4/7/2017 at 2:55 AM, Speed Racer said:

Like I said, I am done with this crap.....

 

On 4/7/2017 at 2:18 AM, Speed Racer said:

I am done with this bullcrap......

 

You're still here! Obviously a man of your word... and worth listening to.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

20 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

Ask the folks at MSB.

 

Yeah, but don't bother asking the folks at Schiit - they have a few problems making anywhere near an 'accurate' DAC. 

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

32 minutes ago, jabbr said:

The PCM1704 was the pinnacle of R2R accuracy that have actual published measurements.

 

My regular DAC, a Phasure NOS1a, uses four PCM1704U-K chips per channel. Here's its 1kHz @ -90dBFS measurement:

 

 

That's probably as good as you're going to get from a PCM1704 DAC. Mind you, it's pretty damn good.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

 

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

The PCM1704 was the pinnacle of R2R accuracy that have actual published measurements.

 

4 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

My regular DAC, a Phasure NOS1a, uses four PCM1704U-K chips per channel. Here's its 1kHz @ -90dBFS measurement:

 

 

That's probably as good as you're going to get from a PCM1704 DAC. Mind you, it's pretty damn good.

 

Mani.

 

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Is this even relevant to the thread?

 

jabbr mentioned the PCM1704's measurements, without showing any. I simply showed the measurements of a particularly good implementation of the PCM1704. Yeah, it just happens to be my regular DAC. (I actually have two - one in my main system and one in my office.)

 

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

So, including VAT, that DAC had to cost around the U.S. equivalent of over $4,000.  The Yggy costs $2,300.

 

More like $5k [edit: $6k actually] now. But it's the best DAC I've ever heard, by a fair margin.

 

The other thing that's great about it is that you can use HQPlayer or XXHighEnd to upsample redbook to 24/705.6 and send it to the NOS1a. Being a non-oversampling and filterless DAC, it leaves all the DSP to HQP/XXHE in the audio PC, fully utilizing the power of the audio PC's CPU. No FPGA can stand a chance to match this. Oh, and it makes redbook sound absolutely phenomenal.

 

Samuel, just ask if there's anything else you'd like to know about it - I'd be more than happy to oblige. I mean, that's all I'm here for - to slag off the Yggy and promote the NOS1a.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

Lovely, lovely cars guys. I've loved Alfas all my life, but have never had the pleasure of owning one. Porsche, I love too, and currently do have the pleasure of owning one.

 

Here's my previous run around:

 

 

Most people take a while to figure out what it is, but I doubt that'll be the case here.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Last rally I did was the WC Rally of Great Britain in 2000.

 

Hey Peter, I knew you had done some rallying, but I didn't realise it was at this level. In a way, I'm glad it didn't work out for you... if you know what I mean.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, mourip said:

I used to have one like this except in robins egg blue with a red interior. 57' Speedster with 63' Super90 engine. I paid $1800 for it. Worth a tad more now...

 

 

Aha... the 356. Totally gorgeous. $1800??? Wow. My 5 year old's got one BTW:

 

 

Mani.

 

[manisandher]

7 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Then I thought to get rich by quitting that hobby.

 

I should perhaps point out that Peter certainly did not get rich by starting Phasure. He already owned a successful CRM software company when he extended his hifi hobby into a commercial enterprise.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

12 minutes ago, semente said:

If you are looking for accuracy/performance get a Cayman, not a 911.

 

But Caymans don't look like this:

 

 

Mani.

 

[manisandher]

23 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

More on topic, what DACs at or near or under the price of the Yggy sound better or as good?

 

Well, if Schiit have improved the digital side with the Yggy gen2, it's got to be a contender. I thought the Chord 2Qute was very good for the money when I had one here for a couple of months. And I wouldn't discount looking around for a used bargain. I paid $1k for the Altmann Attraction DAC I have (a tad less than the ridiculous 16k Euros it apparently costs now). Upsampling redbook to 176.4 and feeding to the Altmann produces very, very good results. Oh, and the Holo Spring is getting great reviews (though I've never personally heard one).

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

On 11/04/2017 at 7:53 PM, LarryMagoo said:

Yet the Yggy’s bold incisiveness may not resonate with listeners who prefer a more relaxed and easygoing sound.

 

It's not "bold incisiveness", it's distortion.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

17 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

Amazing how this thread dried up after the latest posted review!

 

You give your subjective opinion on the Yggy, having listened to it for a few weeks in your own system and compared it to DACs you know very well, and then back these opinions up with measurements, and the Schiit fanboys blow a gasket. You don't respond to one reviewer's opinions and the Schiit fanboys think the definitive word on the DAC has been spoken.

 

From my time with the Yggy, Stereophile's class B rating for the Yggy is about right.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

1 hour ago, LarryMagoo said:

It's a great thing that your opinion and that of JA's is so totally removed form what the preponderance of owners think.....Why don't you just go to thread where your opinion is popular because you obviously do not fit a thread about the Yggy...much less own one you TROLL!

 

Haha... Straight to name-calling. Well done.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

5 hours ago, gmgraves said:

However I would like to see another set of measurements OTHER than those of Mr. Atkinson.

 

Here's a comparison of the Stereophile 1kHz @ -90dBFS measurement vs. that performed by an Yggy owner and fan, Atomicbob:

 

 

A bit messy due to the different formats requiring alignment, but with a bit of focus it's clear that these measurements are identical. I.e. glitching energy around 45µV p-p, and 24 bit truncation/rounding peaks just below 120dB. Seeing as these are identical, I think it's safe to assume JA's other measurements are good too. He certainly seems to have had no problem in measuring countless other DACs. And I strongly suspect Schiit would have been all over him had they disagreed with any of the measurements he published.

 

Mani.