Audirvana Plus 3 (official thread)

[skatbelt]

Posted this content earlier in a wrong thread. Of course, I am also curious what 3.0 will bring but I think Damien and all other music player players in the field will have a big (to big?) challenge because of the latest versions of Roon. In combination with something like a mRendu is not only the most extensive and user friendly but also the best sounding player at this moment. If you don't like software based up-sampling that is. Not strange because there is a large and dedicated team working on it. First being hesitant and a long time A+ adept, I now think Roon is a real revolution in music enjoyment and I can't see sole persons like Damien and Miska keep up. So, I am curious but pessimistic at the same time.

[skatbelt]

The very high price of Roon limits its growth in the market, no matter how it sounds.

 

I don't think this is true. We spend thousands of dollars on components and we also used to spend a lot on source material. Compared to this the price of Roon is very, very decent.

[skatbelt]

Obviously we have someone who is part of Roon's market, and someone who is not. But this is aside from A+ v3, which is what we're discussing....

 

My personal interest is the best sounding solutions within a reasonable price range. My funds are also limited. The problem with these kind of discussions is that those who find something to expensive or have invested a lot of time and effort in something, automatically have the tendency to protect and defend. That is normal human behaviour. Like I said, I am a long time A+ adept and will stay with the product if it realises the best sounding solution in my chain. At the moment it is not. I am not a Roon fanboy. In fact, I am using the free 2 month trial that came with my mRendu. I am open minded and willing to learn and adjust in this very fast moving digital audio world.

[skatbelt]

I see from your signature that you've got the wonderful Lindemann monitor speakers but not their DAC. I just wondered if you had a chance to hear their new DSD series musicbook DACs at all?

I've recently replaced my ageing Zodiac Gold with Musicbook 20 DSD and I must say I'm very pleased with it.

 

Actually I am in the market for a new DAC. I auditioned the Chord DAVE, the Aqua La Scala mkII Optologic and the Metrum Pavane so far but there are others I want to listen to before I decide. I read good things about the Lindemann musicbook products but did not consider them yet. I guess because they are to all-in-one for me. Such concepts come with sacrifices. Not having an AES/EBU input for instance. And I really want to make a big step compared to my Chord Hugo.

 

You are right, the Lindemann BL-10 monitors are something! I am sorry for the off topic, back to A+ v3.

[skatbelt]

However, back in the days when Audirvana wasn't yet "Plus" and didn't incorporate upsampling, I preferred it to other players because of specific steps Damien had taken to ensure good sound quality (something he continues to do today). Even without upsampling, with Roon's emphasis on UI, it is difficult for me to imagine that it would be as light on resources when playing music as A+.

 

This was a concern for me as well. Roon server acts as a background process on my dedicated Mac mini. Is does not even open a window or has some kind of interface. CPU usage is between 2 - 4% and memory usage approximately 1.5 times wat A+ needs. The more heavy duties like updating and backing up the DB are scheduled for sleeping hours. What I find amazing is that my own collection and all from Tidal co-exists transparently and that I can associate between artists, influencers, labels etc. just like for instance in Tidal's own UI.

[skatbelt]

Hello everyone. I have been a big fan of Amarra sound for many years and Amarra 4 was released a few weeks ago. Amarra 4 sound is exceptional, especially with the Audeze LCD3 filter applies in my case, really amazing. I have done many comparaison between different software over the years including Audirvana and always came back to Amarra, always sounding better by a margin against the rest of the pack.

 

When I saw Audirvana 3 out I decided to give a try.And to my surprise, I can comfortably say that Audirvana 3 has now reached a new high, equaling Amarra 4 in term of sound quality and surpassing ( not that hard anyway...) in term of software stability and functionality. Amarra still a tad more enjoying because of the LCD3 filter in my configuration but I now bought Audirvana and will enjoy listening to it from now on.

 

The only issue I have (Mac) is the direct mode that does not work but I read it is due to Sierra OSX. Hopefully this will be fixed. I can not select between modes although integer mode is activated.

 

Great job, congratulations to Audirvana "Team"

 

Bravo a toi Damien, superbe resultat

 

Create your own EQ by a good PEQ AU plugin in A+ and never look back. Actually I found the Amarra LCD-3 EQ preset to be pretty mediocre.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[skatbelt]

On 4/18/2017 at 8:05 PM, audiocanyon said:

 

I've tried both and prefer integer mode 1.  Integer mode sounded cleaner but a little naked on my system.

 

I prefer mode 2. Mode 1 is a little too hot in my system, especially the higher frequencies. Attractive at first but a bit fatiguing (and actually less life-like) after a longer contemplation. This is consistent in all versions of A+ in let's say the last two years or so.

[skatbelt]

@damien78 Any info on 3.1 release date (with the NAA functionality)?

[skatbelt]

4 minutes ago, DayJay said:

Why, when that feature is unlikely to be used by the vast majority of your current user base and there are already options like Minim and Asset that do it really well?   Why have mission creep and risk impacting on quality for existing users when you could improve the navigation and finally develop the remote control to ensure you are the best offering in your current sector?  

 

I think, like myself, a serious part of the user base has moved to a microRendu or some other network renderer. Since this move I switched to Roon which the microRendu set as Roon endpoint. I am very pleased with the SQ I am getting and Roon also fulfils my DSP (PEQ) needs. But as always I am curious if A+ can top this. Before the switch I was using A+ with the very transparent PEQ AU-plugin (Fabfilter Pro-Q) and I want to test if this plugin bests Roon's PEQ for example. I am not interested in upsampling with iZotope (my DAC does not like this) but others will.

[skatbelt]

3 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

 

Do you mean you are in effect interesred in Roon-Audirvana as a combination (Audirvana rendering and Roon as library), to compare with Roon-microRendu, or otherwise do you mean  Audirvana-microRendu to compare with Roon-microRendu? If the first, I understand that although I am unclear of where A+ acting as UPnP server fits in. If the second, then Damien's explanation fits, though you would  need to be happy sacrificing Roon's library capability for Audirvana's.

 

It is the second option. Happy is not the right word but I am willing to give up Roon's library capabilities (and it's excellent remote functions) for better SQ.

[skatbelt]

On 6/4/2017 at 5:47 PM, matthias said:

 

Damien,

will a set-up with Audirvana 3.1 via UPnP and microRendu sound better than a direct USB connection of the same DAC to a Mac?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

If Damien gets it at least as good as Roon > mRendu set as Roon endpoint : yes and not by a small margin. And my Mac was fully dedicated, headless and upgraded with Uptone DC-kit and Uptone LPS-2.

[skatbelt]

21 minutes ago, camott said:

That would be great! Unfortunately, Audirvana doesn't support convolution, which for me is the biggest holdback to replacing Roon->renderer or Roon+HQP->renderer.

 

Convolution/RoomEQ is possible via an AU plugin.

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, camott said:

Aside from some limited built-in Parametric EQ, the only one I am aware of is Dirac and that is a beta/non-supported plugin. Audirvana does not support importing standard convolution files from REW, Acourate, etc.

 

I did use FabFilter Pro-Q 2 with A+. Not cheap but very transparent. You need to set all measurement from (for example) REW manual though.

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, Bob Stern said:

 

MetricHalo's ChannelStrip 3 also is completely transparent and often is on sale for $75.  (FabFilter is $200.)  Although its interface is not a pretty as FabFilter's, I like its option to enter EQ values as numerical parameters instead of relying entirely on graphs or simulated knobs: 

http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/software/channelstrip-3.html

 

Apple's built-in (free) plugins may be just as good.  Although entering the EQ values is a bit more tedious, you can save them as presets.

 

Alternatively, Amarra's sQ+, $50, is a system-wide driver, not a plugin, so it applies the EQ to all audio outputted by the Mac, not just audio from a plugin host such as Audirvana.  I've never tried it, so I don’t know whether it's compatible with Audirvana's Direct Mode.

 

In FabFilter it is also possible to enter the parameters numerical. I trialed a few plugins at the time and FabFilter was the best to my ears. I really like their Natural Phase mode. And I used the A/B function a lot but I guess this is also possible in many of the other solutions.

[skatbelt]

On 5/23/2017 at 9:37 PM, damien78 said:

weeks to the public beta

 

@damien78 Almost one month has passed. Any news on the public beta?

[skatbelt]

13 hours ago, damien78 said:

I'm not giving any promise on the date itself. Only that I'm making good progress.

Though the number of different implementations on the network players side makes it not a very small task...

 

Thnx for your reply. I can imagine that it is not a simple task. Will you announce the public beta on this forum or do I have to keep an eye on you own website?

[skatbelt]

2 minutes ago, bnbayer said:

From the microRendu topic:

News flash:

 

I may have forgotten to mentioned that we have been working with Audirvana the past couple months:) For those of you who don't already know the micro/ultraRendu will accept Audirvana streams very shortly. I have been testing the Audirvana beta release and it's working very well. I'll prepare a how to guide next, but its very easy to setup.

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I hope this means that the public beta that @damien78 promised is not far away!

[skatbelt]

40 minutes ago, lonf said:

fyi,  In version 3.0.99.5  and 3.0.99.4 the app quits when it begins to load the Fabfilter Pro Q2 plugin after loading the track to play).  It will open and play tracks with the plugin turned off, and AV version 2.X loads the plugin and plays the track fine. 

 

I was just about to report my first findings back when I read your post. I use that same plugin. In my case it works fine with the plugin enabled. I do have A+ crashes/direct quitting though. But only when I play tracks from Tidal. If it occurs, it is within one or two seconds after a track starts. There is no constant behaviour. So sometimes I am able to listen to a complete Tidal album.

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, damien78 said:

Can you first update to 3.0.99.6 (using the "Check for updates" command of the Audirvana Plus menu), and if it still crashes, send me by email or PM the crash report, and the Debug Info.

Thx,

Damien

 

See my post above. I'll also try updating first. EDIT: I updated to 3.0.99.6 but still the direct quitting playing Tidal tracks.

 

Other question Damien: I see - if I select the microRendu - low level playback options like exclusive mode, direct mode and integer mode are gone. Does this mean they don't apply to DNLA mode? If so, is it needless for me to stay on Yosemite? I did this because of Apple's messing up direct mode in later OS's.

 

An other thing I noticed. When I play a MQA file via Tidal that is for instance 192/24 or 48/24 it is send by A+ to the mRendu/DAC as 96/24. Is fact all MQA is send as 96/24 as far as I've experienced.

[skatbelt]

16 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

See my post above. I'll also try updating first. EDIT: I updated to 3.0.99.6 but still the direct quitting playing Tidal tracks.

 

Other question Damien: I see - if I select the microRendu - low level playback options like exclusive mode, direct mode and integer mode are gone. Does this mean they don't apply to DNLA mode? If so, is it needless for me to stay on Yosemite? I did this because of Apple's messing up direct mode in later OS's.

 

An other thing I noticed. When I play a MQA file via Tidal that is for instance 192/24 or 48/24 it is send by A+ to the mRendu/DAC as 96/24. Is fact all MQA is send as 96/24 as far as I've experienced.

 

@damien78 crashes also occur with some of my own track (so not only Tidal). What happens is that A+ quits, the track plays on for a second or two and then stops. I DON'T get the Apple message "The application Audirvana quit unexpectedly...".

[skatbelt]

Where is @damien78 when you need him? May be it is an idea to start a separate topic for the  A+ 3.1 public beta...

[skatbelt]

For me with 3.099.8:

• Still crashes. More with Tidal tracks than own library tracks;
• If I disable AudioUnits (normally I use FabFilter Pro-Q 2) I did not encounter a crash yet so this looks related;
• Realtime AudioUnits control does not work (!);
• All MQA content is send to the DAC in 24/88 or 24/96, depending on the MQA source. For instance both 24/48 and 24/192 are send as 24/96. I would expect that everything is send in it's native format. I have SRC/upsampling set to none;

My setup: Mac Mini/Yosemite -> short UTP cable -> EN-70HD network isolator -> short UTP cable -> mRendu (software version 2.5) powered by LPS-1 -> Curious USB cable -> Chord DAVE

 

Sound wise it looks promising. In a honest (all DSP disabled) comparison with Roon / mRendu (set to RoonReady) to my ears A+ / mRendu has a small edge. May be because of the pre-loading? I will certainly use it for critical listening if it becomes a stable product! Mainly because FabFilter Pro-Q 2 is completely transparent and better and more advanced than the DSP functions in Roon.

[skatbelt]

2 hours ago, damien78 said:

 

Can you send me by PM (or email) the crash report you get?

 

Realtime audio processing is not possible with UPnP/DLNA streaming due to the buffering made on the network player side.

Due to MQA decision, only the first unfolding can be done in SW, the others needs a MQA DAC. That's why you get 24/88 or 24/96

 

@damien78 may be  a dumb question but where can I find the crash report? A+ quits without a fault message.

[skatbelt]

21 minutes ago, damien78 said:

 

You should have a window with "Audirvana Plus has quit unexpectedly"

Click on "Report..."

Copy the text of the report, and send it to me (in PM or email)

 

That is the problem, I don't get that window. A+ quits, music plays on for 1 or 2 seconds and after that.... nothing.

[skatbelt]

2 hours ago, damien78 said:

Do you have a defective macOS??? When a program crashes and is thus terminated by macOS, there is this message proposing to report the crash.

Can you open the Console app, then open A+ and reproduce this issue. You must get something also there.

 

My install of Yosemite is also very clean and standard. And I kept additional installations to a minimum. In the rare situation of crashes I always get the window. Only not so with the A+ beta versions.

 

I will check if anything can be abstracted from the Console app.

 

For me, if realtime audio processing is not possible, A+ will be pretty unusable. Out of curiosity, why is it no problem to alter DSP settings in Roon on the fly?