The true experimental tweak thread

[mozes]

11 minutes ago, moussaobeid said:

thanks will wait for @Cornan to wake up and see what he thinks. I am sure there is something wrong in how I am measuring current. I can only get the voltage right!

I think I figured out the problem, to measure current you have to break the circuit so the current flows through the multimeter which I didn't do. I will crack it no matter what

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Yes of course!

 

BTW - did you just change your handle name?

Yes I made it shorter as it was looking funny with the letter d on a second line by itself

[mozes]

Ok here are the current measurements for the tX and Brooklyn after figuring out how to measure current:

-Brooklyn (music playing, Dac only no headphone, screen lights off): 0.843 Amps so at 12V, it consumes 10.116 watts

-tX-USBultra (music playing): 0.477Amps so at 12V, it consumes 5.724Watts. This includes powering the VBUS for the Brooklyn

@austinpop, I think you should be fine powering the tX from an LPS-1

 

[mozes]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I see you have figured it out already Moussa! ? 

You've got yourself a new name and profile picture as well. Nice!

 

Yep a brand revamp

[mozes]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I can see why you are a bit concerned. Personally I would just get a isolation transformer with floating secondary for the JS-2 and be 100% content. It will work with any future changes as well. Just make sure to find a silent one with low inter-winding capasitance!

I tried before an Elgar IT 2.4KVA but it hsed to hum, and my small BK IT also hums and my famous Naim transformers also hums. so enough humming in my world

 

I am tempted by trying the ISO Regen upstream of the tX, I already sold one LPS-1 and the RUR and Intona are listed in the market so this should fund itself 

[mozes]

7 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Can you measure the current on the USB drawn by the Brooklyn?

Will do this later today

[mozes]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

I can see why you are a bit concerned. Personally I would just get a isolation transformer with floating secondary for the JS-2 and be 100% content. It will work with any future changes as well. Just make sure to find a silent one with low inter-winding capasitance!

My pace is very fast @Cornan just like digital

Iooking at the humble power consumption of my devices I don't think I need the JS-2 it is a beast. It may be replaced by a VR 

[mozes]

57 minutes ago, mozes said:

Will do this later today

Very low power consumption on the Vbus from the tX to the Brooklyn, 0.06A does it make sense?

 

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

I received my chinease Gophert CPS-3205 II floating lab style SMPS today. It is really small. To give you an idea just how small I have the TP-Link Vivid powerbank it replaces on the picture as well as the Audioquest NRG-2 that I will use as a power feed cable.

 

 

Started to check the voltage precision. Perfect! ?

 

 

Next up I made a DC cable with the supplied lab cable and a screw terminal DC2,1/5,5mm plug. Do not worry. I will make a shorter one later on. I just want to be 100% sure I want it to stay. ?

 

 

Finally I installed it powering my Oehlback DAC Edition 40 with the Audioquest NRG-2 plugged in to my Ultra Isolation Transformer and had a listen to Bob Moses album "All In All".

 

 

Now, you all know how I feel about battery power. Did it really improve upon my TP-Link Vivid? Yes it did! ? The sound opened up and imaging got wider. Firm bass notes and above all a sence of eaze. I feel more relaxed without really being able to point out why. A natural flow have been added plus an improved presence. 

Do I need to say that it will stay? ? I am very happy! ?

It looks like the OTG cable will arrive after the Easter holiday. Hopefully the OTG>USB network adapter>Network switch>Wireless adapter will squeeze out some more SQ from my low budget setup. It sounds really great already! ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Congrats!

very smart choice, so SMPS is not always evil when you have an IT in place. Can pls you post a link to where you got it from

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

I hear you! ? However, not all are making noises. My Peaktech 2240 was dead silent even before I added the DC blocker. It is probably one of my best hifi purchases ever. Sadly it is a EU only thing... ?

You are either lucky or a smart shopper

[mozes]

56 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes absolutely, it helps.

 

Based on your earlier reading, that tells me the intervals of the tX draw approx 477 - 60 = 417 mA.

 

Add to that the 250 mA my Codex draws, we're up to a current demand of 667 mA.

 

In terms of PSU sizing, the other unknown is that my tX will be driving all 4 clock taps, 2 to the sMS-200, and 1 to the Zyxel switch. This could add up to more current.  But it would have to be around 400mA to overload an LPS-1.

 

So for now, I am very hopeful an LPS-1 will do the job.

I think you are fine with the LPS-1, it seems that in general all devices actually draw much much lower current than what manufacturers claim or recommend PSU for

[mozes]

55 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Yes, makes perfect sense. In the Brooklyn the vbus is just used as a signal that a USB cable is connected.  The power isn't used for anything.

Bingo! that explains it, thanks @lmitche

[mozes]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks Moussa! ? 

Actually, I have the Gophert installed into my star grounded Naim Music line powerstrip now. It actually sounds a tad better. Remember that the Gophert have the DC output floating relative to the safety ground. Also the Ultra IT I am using for my low budget setup do not have a floating secondary. It have low inter-winding capasitance but a grounded secondary with a electromagnetic and electrostatic shield between primary and secondary windings. It is not grounded to the chassi and therefore works a bit different to a IT with floating secondary.

 

Anyway, a long story! ? Here is my previous post with a link to the Gophert I bought on a special offer (but it is cheap even without the offer)

 

 

@Cornan can you pls explain in English this part "the DC output floating relative to the safety ground" and also this one "inter-winding capasitance but a grounded secondary with a electromagnetic and electrostatic shield between primary and secondary windings"

 

Thanks

[mozes]

6 hours ago, Cornan said:

Remember the variable RCA attenuators? I finally found a good place for them on my speaker input.

 

 

Now I can have the speaker volume on maximum level and still have a good volume range via BubbleUPnP. Even better, the sq jumped a notch as well with a tad leaner sound! ?

Very handy, I thought these may have a negative impact on sound

[mozes]

5 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

This means that the ac input safety ground is completely isolated from the DC output of the PSU. The safety ground is floating, ie. connected to the psu chassi instead of passing it through to the DC output. 

 

 

The answer to this question could fill a whole thread, so I will provide a link with some information of Ultra ITs instead http://www.aelgroup.co.uk/faq/faq061.php

In short words Ultra ITs attenuates common-mode noise since primary & secondary windings are isolated from each other, but the noise is shunted to the safety ground and is not floating as on a tech style IT with floating secondary. 

In general I prefer a tech style IT but with power amps and active speakers I would actually prefer both in series.

Thanks @Cornan I got the first point one, and for the second I need to do some reading

[mozes]

27 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Two thing to be aware of:

1. This is a ultra isolation transformer and NOT a safety isolation transformer or tech style isolation transformer (same thing but different names) with floating secondary. A safety isolation transformer is usually a better option if you make sure to find one with a low-interwinding capacitance. For analogue power hungry devices a safety isolation transformer followed by a ultra isolation transformer or balanced power supply (ultra isolation transformer with center tapped ground) could be a good idea. For digital devices a safety IT is better.

An ultra isolation transformer will sound better plugged into a power filter or a safety IT. A safety IT is best plugged into a good quality powerstrip without filters or protection of any kind.

 

2. 5kVA is probably suitable for your whole house. 

With safety isolation transformer bigger is not necessarily better. Many claims that less powerful sounds better, but up to 2kVA should be ok close to your setup. At the same time they need power overhead to perform best. Best is to check the total power consumption of your setup and ensure to get one with 25-50% overhead and if it exceeds it but more than one and separate analogue and digital devices to their own ITs. Just my 2c.

I made my own isolation solution

one circuit for digital and another one for analogue. This is better than humming and cost almost the same

[mozes]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, that is a welcome and quite unexpected surprise. The Aries Mini is Roon Ready. I'm playing with it now.

 

Since I run Roon Core on a W10 box, optimized with AO, to my ears at least, Tidal files (regular, not Master) sound better via Roon rather than the native Tidal in Lightning running on the Mini.

 

The fake-MQA-decoding on the Mini changes that again, since comparing fake-MQA decoded Tidal Masters files vs. the untouched Masters files through Roon, the balance shifts back to the Mini.

 

However, Roon has stated that they are licensing the MQA SW decoding from MQA, which performs the first unfold, just like the TIdal app on WIn/Mac. So hopefully soon, Roon will be able to do the real MQA SW decoding on Masters tracks. I'm convinced this will tilt the balance back to Roon.

Can Roon right now pass through MQA files to MQA davs like the Brooklyn?

[mozes]

33 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, absolutely.

That's great news, have you done any comparison between Jriver and Roon purely from a sonic perspective?

[mozes]

10 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

I've never used JRiver. I was previously using MinimServer, running on both my NAS, and more recently on my W10/AO-optimized bridged box.

 

I've done comparisons of streaming via RAAT - i.e. Roon Core to Roon Ready endpoint - vs. DLNA using MinimServer, and cannot hear any difference. Others have insisted they think RAAT sounds better. Not to my ears.

 

But there are enough functional reasons to like Roon.

 

And of course, this does not factor in upsampling or DSP, which is a whole other can of worms. I wrote about this in my recent Aries Mini vs. mR vs. sMS-200 thread here:

 

 

Thanks @austinpop for sharing your impressions, the only feature I am interested in is the Tidal integration with MQA pass through as I already have the Brooklyn. Now I prefer Tidal with BubbleDS Next and Jplaystreamer, but I will keep my eyes open on the development of new features by Roon

[mozes]

42 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks, very helpful information! ? I am not standing in the doorway just yet though. I'll need to save up before I pull the plug. Since I have'nt digged deep into Roon requirements I will need to study a bit to understand if and how I want to start as well. I do have an optimized W10 computer already but do not want to use it. I would prefer something like the small green computer with Roon remote, but are not 100% sure that it will cover all my needs and expectations. My Roon knowledge is a bit dusty. Time to swivel it clean and learn what have happened since the release! ?

I downloaded a trial version of Roon to try it out and see how it integrates Tidal. I have to say that there are aspects that I like but overall not sure impressed with it. More on Roon experience to come soon once I can get it to work bit perfect with my Brooklyn

[mozes]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

I should write up my experiences with Roon and post it somewhere.

 

In a nutshell, Roon has a steep learning curve. Yeah, the basics are simple - point to the library, point to the endpoint, boom, done - right? Wrong! It takes time to learn the nuances. I went from being a deep skeptic, convinced it wasn't for me, to a lifetime subscriber, over the course of a 60-day trial.

 

But it is certainly not for everyone. For example, if you're primarily using Tidal as your music source, I won't try to convince you the cost of Roon is worth it.

 

All I can say is - if you see potential, be patient and keep digging into it. There are a lot of features and neat ideas below the surface, and over time you will have some aha moments. Or not - in which case, you shouldn't waste your money.

Thanks @austinpop for sharing your impressions. I am not on a smooth ride with Roon it seems.

-Does Roon support Native DSD256 playback?

-If yes, do I have to use the Brooklyn windows ASIO driver? I can only see the Wasapi driver to connect to

-Now I can play DSD either via DOP or transcode to PCM

-I can't run Roon control on my laptop, I updated the driver for the display adapter (Intel HD graphics 4000) still no luck!

-MQA unfolding as of now is only showing 44.1/24 with MQA blue light on on Masters when I set exclusive mode.

-If someone is using Roon with the Brooklyn with Roon, pls share your audio settings

On the positive side of things, It is clear that Roon is above all the other audio software I have experienced in terms of features, interface, graphics, integration with Tidal, etc.

 

[mozes]

Here are my impressions about Roon:

It took me sometime to make it work with the ASIO driver of the Brooklyn so I can play native DSD, but I managed after one day of trial and error. My system is as follows for those who don't know:

Nimitra>>SOTM tX-USBultra>>Brooklyn

 

What I liked:

1-Excellent user interface

2- Makes you discover your music in new ways

3-Seamless integration with Tidal

4-fluid navigational experience

 

What I didn't like:

-Sonically, it is not the best I heard, in direct A/B with same tracks from my SSD, Jriver 22 is clearly superior. Jriver 22 is more transparent such that Roon sounded veiled in comparison. As for Tidal streaming, Bubble DS Next with Jplaystreamer is more musical and less digital or metallic. The only exception is when playing Masters files to the Brooklyn (MQA lit blue), then it becomes so close to Bubble DS Next with Jplaystreamer and then we are talking about differences in presentation. Roon has deeper bass, but Bubble DS Next has more natural vocals, this is way too close that I can live with either. If Bubble DS Next with Jplaystreamer can support MQA then I believe that this will be well ahead of Roon.

-A bit slow to load on my control app on iphone and Android tab (maybe my hardware, don't know)

-Frequent disconnects and I have been asked to enter my username and password many times. almost 1 out of 3 or 4 attempts to launch the control app

-Overwhelming with information that I felt I am not in control of my music library, it is like Roon wants to be the BOSS and not me, I don't like that, I have to be in control so less suggestions, pushed recommendations is what I like. When I want to explore, I leave it to streaming solutions like Tidal to do that in the cloud not when I want to mange my library and play music

-Very fussy with hardware (couldn't launch it on my W10 laptop de to some video card driver compatibility issue).

-Took some time for it to recognize Brooklyn ASIO driver, not sure why.

 

Overall, these are my subjective impressions on my system using my subjective ears, so take it with a pinch of salt.

 

For now, I uninstalled Roon from my Nimitra, iphone and Android tab and back to my old trusted Jriver and BubbleDS Next/Jplaystreamer.

 

I will still keep an open mentality towards Roon as it is a great software for music management and playback, but now it doesn't suit my needs.

 

[mozes]

Exactly, I got Roon out of my system now. You are right that this is too early in the learning curve, but I know now what the fuss is all about. 

I imagine Roon would be great in a network playback system where you have multiple endpoints and playback zones. It does offer a nice platform to manage it all

[mozes]

Here is a diagram that shows my network topology and I also attached some pics for the optical to ethernet converter installed by the service provider which is powered by a cyberpower battery (pic also attached).

 

I believe that I have done most of what I should do for ethernet isolation

Still suggestions/recommendations are welcome

[mozes]

7 hours ago, Cornan said:

@mozes

Looking at your network topology there are atleast three spots worth to experiment with additional isolation or changes of ethernet cables:

 

1. Between optical ethernet converter and ethernet box. Change to Cat6a U/UTP 500Mhz patch cable. For example Deltaco flat cables which are cheap.

 

2. Between ethernet box and modem. Change to Cat6a U/UTP 500Mhz patch cable. 

 

3. Between modem and router. Ethernet isolator close to the modem or change to Cat6a U/UTP 500Mhz patch cables (but since it is 15m long it might be too much of a hassle. Personally I would'nt hesitate to try two ethernet isolators on a long cable like that) 

 

Remember that sometimes you will not know the full benefit until the whole chain is isolated/optimized.

 

 

 

 

Thanks @Cornan for your suggestions. the one from the optical converter to the box is the toughest one to change as it runs from the basement to the main floor through the wall.

what's the logic behind switching from cat7 to cat6a?