A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sandyk]

13 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Each dual receptacle has slots for 2 Hot & 2 Neutral conductors (some nice ones like the Cooper 5252 have 4 slots).

 Unless I am missing the point,(Photo ? )  both holes are required for connecting to the next socket in the chain ?  

Perhaps the Cooper 5252 would be needed for normal use using these heavy gauge wires.

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

You were following my thread on having the electric co. come out and test my house's electricity...

 

They can only test up to 3 KHz so I am still wondering if I have dirty power.

 

I am also close to getting rid of all wall warts in my main system, so I am wondering what to do re isolation transformers, or balanced power supplies, etc.

 

If you know of any way to test LMK !

 

Why do so many members seem to think they need Isolation transformers , balanced power supplies etc. ?

Is the mains artifact rejection of the gear they use so mediocre, or the mains supply so polluted by others, or perhaps due to poor quality LED lighting etc.  ?

Getting rid of all SMPS wallwarts, or at least earthing the 0 volts side of their power supply is a good first step.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, One and a half said:

Again. An isolation transformer's main purpose is to remove common mode noise. Does your place have an exemption certificate from common mode noise?

 

I personally only know of only one Audiophile who has felt the need for Isolation transformers etc. and he lived in a large block of apartments with lifts etc.

 It would mainly depend on where you live, with mainly suburban  areas with no nearby industrial facilities less likely to need them. Perhaps the widespread use of RF/EMI  prone USB Audio by many C.A. members, as well as the growing number of SMPS plugpacks etc. has led to their use far more than in earlier years ?

How many people needed to use A.C. isolation transformers with analogue audio , including Tape decks, high quality cassette recorders and Vinyl  ? How many need to use them with Valve amplifiers and Vinyl, even now ?

Wouldn't it be funny if it turns out that digital ,which is supposedly far more resistant to things like this, turned out to be more easily affected by this kind of problem than Analogue ?

[sandyk]

21 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

very important questions; I edited out the Brit spellings and shortened some sentences for more impact...

emphasis added to highlight the usual suspects

 

O.K. I don't have a problem with your rewording of my reply.

[sandyk]

52 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

 

I have used it to power the SSD OS on the player board in my dual PC'S 

It did made some improvement on the lower background noise ( " darker background" ) in  the sound  compare to the normal PSU for this SSD which is a linear PSU with LT1083 regulator .

It is a small improvement but it shows again that when you decrease the noise of the PSU you get better results ...even on powering a ssd which is quite far away from the audio signal itself ...

 Yes, an improved PSU to even the OS SSD, not just a storage SSD does result in an SQ improvement as you described, although many members will refuse to accept that this is possible.

Your linear PSU using the LT1083 will also have resulted in improved performance over an internal SMPS, but as you have found, the lower noise LT3045 works even better.. 

 I use a dual +12V to +5V JLH PSU add-on for both my internal SSDs which improves their isolation from each other and the internal  SMPS.

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, jean-michel6 said:

Yes you are right use separate psu for each single equipment in the audio chain is one of the golden recipy to achieve better sound. 

It makes the system somewhat more complicated but it is very effective. v

 

In my case, it was easy to implement using the existing +12V SMPS into the dual regulated JLH PCBs which are mounted to the bottom of the PC's case. We don't need to use Linear PSUs everywhere.

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Thanks @sandyk for the reply, I'd like to know if a similar mod with LT3045 were applicable to those internal Xtal oscillators of motherboards and storage devices by any chance?

 

You would need to use 2 parallel +5V .5A  LT3045s, or a single +5V 1A LT3045 PCB  to power internal SSDs for  example, and TBH, I doubt that the heat sinking on them at present would be adequate for long sustained reads and writes. You would also need to use another  adjustable voltage regulator ahead of them (LM317T etc.) if using a +12V supply rail to reduce the input voltage into them so that there wasn't a big Input to Output voltage differential which would cause them to overheat.

However in a DAC for example, if the Xtal Oscillators were 3.3V types and you also had a +5V supply available, you could use a .5A 3.3V LT3045 to provide very low noise power to the Xtal oscillator.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I agree.  Unless you're using a low-power SoC, motherboard ethernet and USB ports just don't sound good in my experience.  Just like SSD/hard disk, these components need clean power. 

 

 Fortunately, many C.A. members have now found out for themselves just how much there is to be gained by using clean power, even for an O.S. SSD ! 

 

[sandyk]

Just now, WuNgUn said:

And yet others proclaim external, clean DC power for the SSD does diddly... 

 

I was talking about cleaner power for internal SSDs.

Whether or not it results in a worthwhile improvement with an external SSD will depend on how well it's implemented.

Using a long external SATA lead for example, isn't the way to go. eSata is a better choice if available.

 As for a USB connected SSD, while you may make an improvement when powering it with cleaner power,

it's still dependent on other well documented USB problems, including how well the USB lead is constructed, and whether it meets the relevant USB specifications. Shorter is usually better, too.

Keeping noisy +5V SMPS from getting into the USB cable is well worthwhile too.

 Something like the attached may also be helpful, as it connects the +5V leads of both USB 2.0 ports together to increase it's current capability to 1A instead of .5A where only one port is in use at a time.

It also features an additional 100uF bypass  capacitor across each port's power leads, for a total of 200uF.

 In my case I replaced these with higher quality 100uF Panasonic FM electrolytic capacitors. 

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-5-10pin-2-USB2-0-Port-HUB-HD-Audio-Output-Floppy-Drive-Expansion-Front-Panel-/401342678607?hash=item5d71e3464f

[sandyk]

35 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

So was I....

 Well, that is not correct, as many C.A. members can testify.

 

Quote

There is no cleaner DC power source better than a battery...

 Rubbish. Many higher current batteries have internal electronics for protection.  A Lifepo 4 is one of the quieter ones.

 You often need to also use relatively long leads to connect them, which can expose them to RF/EMI, and usually a battery holder with it's own internal resistance points  which can be a problem sometimes due to the cheap metal used. Haven't you ever needed to clean the battery contacts on Remote Controls for example ? ( I don't mean after battery leakage either)

 A LT3045 voltage regulator I.C. has Ultralow RMS Noise: 0.8μVRMS (10Hz to 100kHz)

 Which batteries are that quiet ?

 No, we are NOT talking about music on the OS SSD, although doing the same for a Music storage SSD also results in a further improvement.

Not that I, or others who report these things, expect you to believe this !

[sandyk]

36 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

Youre either uninformed, argumentative or blinded my your own opinions....probably a bit of both.

Why would you even mention integrated electronics in a battery?? Who would use such a battery?? lmao

Battery holder?? Do you not do anything DIY? Is everything you do purchased based on others opinions? The more you spend the better it HAS to be, right?

There is no rms noise in a battery cell, PERIOD! The fact that you even quoted a frequency range comparing a reg to a battery cell power goes to show youre not well informed.

Clearly you haven't read too many of my posts of my DIY gear.

You are the one who is argumentative and out of touch with many members.

Also, many batteries have small random noise bursts.

 Attached are just a few samples of my own, and other highly modified designs.

Incidentally, both my Class A Preamp, and 15W/Ch. Class A Power Amplifier are fully DC coupled with no capacitors in the signal path. The Preamp has a Freq. Response Flat 10hz to 500khz; falls off 2db at 1.6MHZ, The DAC has no output capacitors either, and when selected by the Preamp, both it's active and earth return leads are switched right through the Preamp to the 15W/ch. Class A P.A.

[sandyk]

33 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

How can you be certain battery power isnt providing a natural sound and AC/DC regulated power is influencing the signature?

 You are conveniently ignoring the fact that even when using say a 12V Li Ion battery, that it needs some sort of voltage regulation after it in order to provide a highly stable output voltage, which is essential for high quality Xtal oscillators etc.

This means that you will also need to use suitable value, most likely electrolytic/tantalum etc. capacitors at the input and output of the regulator, which will introduce their own unique sound signature.

 

"Buy....? 

You prob have batteries all over your house... Start there. "

 

Unless the batteries have solder tabs you will also  need to use suitable connectors, and it may not be a good idea to do this due to battery aging and charging requirements.

 Some members actually use 4 x NiMh batteries in series to provide a low noise isolated +5V supply.

 However, to do this you will normally need to use something like the attached, including a clip on plug with leads to solder into circuit.

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/s5031-4-x-aa-square-battery-holder/

 Note the large number of metal to metal contacts needed, each with their own contribution of series resistance.

Your ideal low impedance power source now has a much higher source impedance.

In this case, there are now 10 additional small resistances in series whose resistance will slowly increase over a period of time due to oxidisation.

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

I can power the processor of my DAC separately from the opamp/outout stage...which already has a high quality PSU...and it only requires 1.2V. No regulation needed, just a capacitor to smooth any power draw spikes, which would be minimal. The rest of the processor uses 3V, which can also be added separately (2 cells). Power the discrete clock from battery as well and you have a VERY nice sounding setup improvement. A couple of small, NO/NC relays to a simply DC/DC charger and youre ready to rock.

Oxidation isnt an issue with good mechanical connection that is soldered and shrink tubed.

 

Slap your ohm meter on each side of a metal tabbed and soldered connection, let me know if it shows anything other than O.L. Impedance isnt even a factor with such small current and voltage draws.

lol

 

 

The situation you just described is far from typical of the requirements of the vast majority of C.A. members.

 

So you have also added 2 cells to obtain 3V ? What type of 1.5V cells are you using that are rechargeable, and you can solder into circuit without mechanical connections ?

 BTW, most low voltage relays draw a considerable amount of current, with coil resistance typically around 78 ohms to 180 ohms for even a 5V relay.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

We are discussing the merits....not the practise...It matters not to me if any of this pertains to anyone else.

Also, I didnt say I dont have a mechanical connection to the DAC. You need a good mechanical connection at the electrical connection joint, to which you then solder. I.E. cell to cell electrical connection...

As for makng your own packs, this is a good example of the basics....

 

You didn't answer my question as to what type of 1.5V cells that you use that are rechargeable, and if possible also have solder tabs.

 This kind of information could be of interest to other members.

[sandyk]

9 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

 1.2V...NiMH do nicely...for that section of my DAC

For my 3V, a pair of Li-Ion at 1.5V each is ideal.

https://www.batterymart.com/p-powerizer-c-nimh-rechargeable-battery-solder-tabs.html

 

 Are you sure you couldn't have chosen something a little larger such as a D Cell ?

 

"For my 3V, a pair of Li-Ion at 1.5V each is ideal." 

Do you have any catalogue numbers ?  These can often be quite expensive, especially when you factor in the price of a suitable charger for 1.5V Li Ion batteries. A normal charger for NiMH batteries is not suitable. 

[sandyk]

18 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

A single C sized NiMH cell is 5000mah BTW

 

Yes, and may be suitable for electric drill packs etc.

 

 I use a 12V 15,000mAH Li Ion battery into a JLH PSU Add-on to power my USB memory sticks for highest quality SQ using an Uptone USB Regen. The 12V Li Ion battery sounds better with the JLH in line (no voltage drop)

This is also in line with other members' findings when using voltage regulators such as the LT3045 after a battery.

Just as with different formula electrolytic capacitors from different vendors,(perhaps Ultracaps too ?)  different types of batteries are likely to have slightly different sound signatures for the same reason.

I can fine tune the sound by a small amount by simply varying the type (esr ,not capacitance) of the electros in the JLH Capacitance Multiplier section.

[sandyk]

15 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

"high current" D/A processor?? Sure....It really sucks the juice! lol

Any "pulse" in current is dealt with by using smoothing caps of course

 BTW, Marc's daytime job is designing mundane things like multi layer , high tech Motherboards among other things.

[sandyk]

2 minutes ago, WuNgUn said:

That maybe so, but Im not talikng about mosfet's or DC to DC converters here...a simple low power DC source

 

Don't just take Marc's word for it though, ask E.E. John Swenson in the Uptone area of the Forum.

IIRC,  A fast switching transient can act like a momentary s/c on the supply lines.

[sandyk]

1 minute ago, WuNgUn said:

Dont you sleep Sandy? lol

 

I am almost certainly in a different time zone to you, and YES, it's getting close to my bed time. If only it wasn't so damn hot , and with several more days of the same coming.

[sandyk]

On ‎24‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:17 PM, Lebouwsky said:

Might this be an option:

https://www.moddiy.com/products/SATA-to-Gridseed-Power-Plug-(2.1mm-DC-Barrel-Plug).html

 

Making a DC socket to SATA Power cable.

 

 The main problem here appears to be that it may not be possible to obtain PC Card mounting plates that are blank, except perhaps in minimum quantities.
 If you have an old card that is no longer used, you may be able to repurpose it , by drilling a suitable sized hole in it's mounting plate  to take an insulated DC socket.
You could take something like the attached, but only connect 2 wires to the socket. The +5V wire (preferably Red) and the 0 volts wire ( preferably Black)

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-pcs-SATA-Power-Connector-Crimp-Plug-with-Terminal-Pins-for-SATA-Hard-Drive/121802423000?epid=888372534&hash=item1c5bfd7ad8:g:Xb4AAOSwwbdWNDJr

 

You would then drill a suitable sized hole in the mounting plate to take an insulated DC socket as in the attached.

http://www.altronics.com.au/p/p0629-2.5mm-female-plastic-chassis-mount-dc-power-socket/

After mounting the insulated socket to the plate , you would then need to solder the 2 wires to it.
For those without soldering skills, perhaps another member with similar needs would be willing to help out ?

 

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

 

I don't get it, what's so difficult about that?

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-Steel-Profile-Expansion-PLATEBLANK/dp/B00006B8BN

 

Here's even something with a hole that might or might not be the right size

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Low-Profile-Bracket-for-LG-Ericsson-PCI-1020-Wireless-802-11n-PCI-Adapter-/190735057275

 The first one is a flimsy cover plate only and not really suitable. Most people throw those out after installing  a new card.

The 2nd one is far more substantial and may be suitable, although it looks to be a little too short.

I doubt that most people (at least in Australia) would be willing to pay US$21.45 to obtain just one !

 As Amazon is only starting up in Au. with no competitive advantage ,(existing larger local suppliers are usually cheaper ) and a limited range of products here currently, I only checked ebay.

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Ever heard of half height and low profile?

 

 That means it isn't suitable for everyone.

 

 In this case I was replying to a PM, and thought a few others may be interested.

 Next time I won't even bother to look for and suggest other alternatives to asking someone to make a special item !

[sandyk]

19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

My issue was an intermittent failure to power up, upon insertion of the PSU barrel connector. Due to its intermittent nature, SOtM was having a hard time reproducing it, although they did eventually do so.

 Interesting.

I have had no end of trouble with some DC connectors recently . The sockets appear to be the problem due to poor design.

Just moving the plug around slightly could often  see power lost.

Sockets like the attached with a 2 piece centre connector would appear to be a more reliable choice.

[sandyk]

25 minutes ago, mansr said:

Make sure you're not using a 2.5 mm plug with a 2.1 mm jack. That tends to give an unreliable connection.

 

 Don't you just love the mish mash of this type of D.C.plug and socket, where you may need to physically try a pair together ?  The vendors often don't appear to have clear compatibility labelling or adequate descriptions. The problem that I was having was with correct matching pairs, supplied as pairs.

[sandyk]

16 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Maybe send them an e-mail

 

https://www.hdplex.com/contact/

 

Find out if they're willing to sell only this part instead of the entire PSU

 

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-400w-atx-linear-power-supply-with-modular-atx-output.html

 

 

Another one looked close enough but they're ONLY selling the bracket without the cable and the DC jack

 

http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/it.A/id.438/.f

 

 

Anyways, it just doesn't hurt to ask them to make a cable for you to go from DC jack to female SATA power connector.

BTW, the D.C. socket shown in the lower photo does not appear to be an INSULATED type, although the photo may not be revealing enough.

It should be an insulated type to reduce the possibility of ground loops.