A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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On 11/19/2020 at 11:41 PM, austinpop said:

 

Hi Jorge,

 

Wow, that is a convoluted chain, and this coming from a (reformed) spaghetti lover. 🙂

 

Why not replace this entire chain: 

• oM <SFP> eR <RJ45> uR <USB> iR, plus 4 PSUs feeding these, with
• an Innuos Phoenix?

So you'd have: Router< RJ45 >oM <SFP> Buffalo 2016 <RJ45> Zen MKIII <USB> Phoenix <USB> DAC. Use good LPS's on the Router, oM, and Buffalo 2016.

 

When you compare the costs, don't forget to factor in the fewer power cables and fewer Ethernet cables.

Hi Rajiv! Sorry for the late reply. I truly appreciate your suggestions, but I am unsure if it will be a better configuration for 2 reasons: the first is the Zen - at least in my system the uR delivers a better SQ than the Zen; the second is  that the eR s also delivers a better SQ (than the Buffalo). So replacing these with a Phoenix  won’t probably achieve the same  SQ. Perhaps with a Zenith I things could be different, but again I think the eR would be essential. It really transfigured my system. I (and also my wife) would love to get rid of the spaghetti but the truth is that each device on my chain has a cumulative effect on the final SQ. Another option as also was suggested would be the PF clock for the Buffalo. But again probably just the eR would be redundant. So lot’s of food for thought in the coming weeks. Thank you again. Jorge

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On 11/20/2020 at 2:14 AM, Fourlegs said:

 

Plus one for this suggestion. I had the Phoenix in my system on home demo for 5 weeks and was so impressed with the improvement that I decided to get the Statement (which effectively has the Phoenix built in plus more).

Thank you for legs. Please see the reply to Rajiv.

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On 11/20/2020 at 2:35 AM, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi Jorge,

 

+1 on this too.

 

I started writing something similar yesterday but changed my mind as I was worried I'd offend you.

 

Especially if you are considering upgrading the clock in your Buffalo then having so many devices downstream aimed at isolating it from your DAC doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

 

To Barrows point the oR is probably a good incremental upgrade in your current chain. But rationalising the chain into higher end components such as Phoenix etc is another option.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Hi Alan! There’s no space here to be offended, just grateful for all your kind inputs. Agreed that if I decide to to upgrade the Buffalo I won’t need so much spaghetti! 🤗. But for the time being it’s one or another. Can’t really afford to have it modded and also buy a Phoenix! 😃

Tks again! Jorge

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On 11/20/2020 at 8:52 AM, MarkusBarkus said:

Ditto, Jorge. I have the OM on the first floor with modem, etc. and a 35' FO cable to the basement audio room. 
 

When I had the PF Buffalo mod done, I moved that switch very close to the Aurender streamer, connected via Sablon 2020 ethernet.

 

Then, it's "the old in/out" with the Phoenix, and off to Chordville HMS and DAVE. Lush^3s and Wave BNCs. Good LPSs on everything, which you already have.

 

It's a more streamlined route, and it sounds terrific. You already like your sound, but if you're considering the PF route, it might be at least worth considering the "Phoenix Solution." Happy Listening!

Thank you Markus! Probably the way to go! Jorge

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On 11/20/2020 at 1:21 PM, barrows said:

Here is the thing.  The USB output of the oR is already designed to be as good as it can be, and IMO, adding additional USB fixer upper devices would be redundant.  The USB output of the oR is already clocked by a dedicated Femto level oscillator, and the USB power supply is already ultra low noise with a dedicated LT 3045 regulator and appropriate decoupling right at the USB output jack.  I would advise that one connect the output of the oR directly to the DAC with the very best USB cable one can get their hands on, and leave it at that. And if your DAC uses USB power, make sure your USB cable pays specific attention to the power leg design, and keep the cable as short as is reasonable to keep power delivery low impedance/inductance. 

Well Barrows, at least with the uR and with my configuration I feel that the iR delivers more meat to the sound. So probably a Phoenix will also improve things and in a much larger scale.

It would be interesting to also know  if there is any difference (SQ wise) between an eR  + uR and eR + oR. That’s the one million dollar question. 😂

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21 hours ago, austinpop said:

I suspect you might be surprised, but it’s your call. Good luck with your next steps!

Tough choices my friend! 🤗

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20 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

 

While Im burning in my PlanetTech SFPs, Ive been going back and forth to compare between an optical connection and an ethernet connection into the EtherRegen to contrast the difference (then on to an UltraRendu).  Just doing this the difference is an eye opener. There is not a clear cut winner in all respects but there is definitely a noticeable difference. So I will go out on a limb and say YES - there will be a difference between eR  + uR and eR + oR. However will it be an improvement? I cant answer that as its so system dependent, plus finding the right sounding SFP is another chapter in getting the sound to your taste.

 

Oh and another finding. I had a USB tweak between the UltraRendu downstream to the MScaler. It was a definite improvement. However with the optical connection, what ever that tweak was doing is no longer needed, in fact it sounds worse with the tweak in place with an upstream optical connection. So changing something upstream made the downstream tweak not just irrelevant but a negative. Im just thinking about that IsoRegen...

 

Plus from the parts mentioned the outgoing USB in the OpticalRendu sounds like the parts list for the Phoenix. Im not saying its as good as, but as Barrows suggests, you might find the OpticalRendu output by itself is actually better than having an IsoRegen in the chain. Or like me, by making a tweak upstream, the IsoRegen is less necessary.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your views. Following your reasoning that I also share the oR might improve the sound. On the iR I had different results  with different setups including the cumulative ones with several devices in cascade. Here it was not so clear as in one or two situations the iR become redundant with a smaller number of devices. With the current system it makes a different, so it’s not a clear cut. 

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15 hours ago, Tatomek7 said:

I did the same with positive results. On the other side I have eR and it's connected with 2  Buffalos ( one PF moded ) with fiber. 

Thanks for sharing. Do you’re saying that even with the PF mod, the eR and an extra Buffalo make a difference? 

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17 hours ago, Tatomek7 said:

Yes, I confirm, unfortunately. I wanted to keep it off (eR) my chain and wanted to save some $$, but ... is still there. I had one Buffalo on one side of the fiber and the PF Buffalo on the other ( closer to server ). Stacking them together at the PF side gave nice improvement. I have 15m fiber, so I've never experimented with attenuaters. 

 

19 hours ago, cool_chris said:

Am I so stupid carring the 4 Buffalows if 1 PF Buffalo will do the job ? And keep ER as a isolator just for accesd point ?

No. I keep them all because it is much better. 

 

We don't know why but stacking multiple switches brings additional benefits. 

By far the biggest improvement is when you get your first PF Buffalo 2016.

Please keep it as the LAST in chain .

Make sure to power it well.

 

Adding switches in a chain brings additional benefits.  Those are not as big as the first switch but it is still improving the SQ.

 

 

So no hope to save money as a PF clock by its own will improve significantly the SQ but will not make redundant the whole range of devices before it. Gosh... Well thank you so much for all your views. I think I will first the uR and sell my uR and hopefully the iR and later consider the PF. In any case I’ll report back on the comparisons between the eR and uR and the eR and the oR. All my best, Jorge

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10 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

Indeed on the buffalo, turning off the leds does sound substantially better than keeping them on...

much less harshness and having more clear and holographic image

so i purposely put a toggle switch to turn off the leds...

Extraordinary modd! Barely recognized the Buffalo.