A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

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1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

What would you choose?

Definitely Option B.

Reclocking / daisy chaining with the txUSBultra may have a positive impact, but I would add a Master clock input and sell the txUSBUltra to part fund an ocx10 clock.

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3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

The master clock is still available with either option A or B.  Other than incorporating a master clock with the devices, are there any reasons you would choose B over A?  The cost of an sCLK-EX vs a txUSBultra aren't that different.  I'm not too worried about the cost.

Just for the 4 taps I think the modded switch would have a bigger impact on streaming sound quality. The txUSBUltra I think is essentially the hub/sata version of txUSBexp with a SCLK -EX, but doubling up on this with two SCLK - EX boards seems to improve matters in the trifecta (sms200 Ultra and txUSBUltra) so it may have a positive impact, option B gives you both.

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4 minutes ago, tedwoods said:

there is no clock yet from SOtM, no?

 

it is being powered by lps-1

 

what can I add to improve it even further?

The Master clock hasn't been released yet.

I would swap the lps1 with an sps500 synergystically  I found it a better match.

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1 hour ago, lmitche said:

 

You seem convinced that the embedded DC to DC transformers sound better

It sounds like the Paul Hynes Power Supply or Similar when feeding a dc input is so good that it outperforms the ATX supplies that are not built for audio despite the DC converter - the EVGA Supply looks very interesting.

I can't figure out why PCM would sound awful on your rig when using HQPlayer.

Also when using critical products such as SOTM's USB cards, and SLCK - EX boards/external clocks etc, these can be powered directly from a linear supply, and even ssd cards are available with a direct dc connection. Use of SATA filters fan filters etc also lessens the noise generated by the ATX supply and components. So a high powered system with your power supply and atx board could sound great.

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5 minutes ago, lmitche said:

With Hqplayer converting everything to dsd512 there is no need for pcm even though most of my music is in pcm format.

On my lowly system both pcm and dsd sound great - I was just wondering why pcm sounds awful on yours despite the collaborative efforts and stone turning.

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42 minutes ago, afrancois said:

Most of the time when DSD sounds better than PCM, it's because PCM is badly implemented on that particular DAC.

Agreed both have their merits and differences but I will also add that the server or pc influences the sound, especially high frequency noise, emi, jitter etc. PCM can sound harsh in some systems and converting to DSD can alleviate this, but I found that the introduction of the SCLK - EX in my system pointed to jitter - poor clocking as the main cause. The addition of some SATA filters removed high frequency coloration, better power supply, EMI RFI shielding etc- Those same PCM tracks transformed into Music.

 

14 minutes ago, Summit said:

there are more than one way to skin a cat and what’s best in one audio system is not necessary best in another.

Very True

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1 minute ago, afrancois said:

The sMS-200 ultra also uses the sCLK-EX, so what's the difference. The tXUSBexp PCIe card I imagine?

There is the extra ethernet interface, server /ethernet to renderer/USB to DAC as opposed to PC-Server/ USB to DAC

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6 minutes ago, afrancois said:

So you think the advantage in sound quality comes from shortening the path?

The shortest path I know of right now is the Devialet Pro DAC/amplifier/renderer all in one combination. However, most of the owners still prefer a server/renderer/MC3+ USB solution going via AES into their Devialet.

The advantage is the sclk - EX board. SOTM's USB card existed before the microrendu/ sms 200 came out. Using the microrendu/ SMS200 bypassed the poor quality USB interfaces in many systems. This whole topic came about using the bridged mode connection - a direct ethernet connection from pc to renderer rather via a router which improved quality further. The SCLK - EX modification has proven that the USB interface can be improved by better clocking, your example is missing the SCLK -EX. That I think is the key difference.

By the way I'm using the SMS 200 Ultra and still contemplating a new build.

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1 minute ago, afrancois said:

Not really, the example that I had in mind was with the sMS-200 Ultra which has a built-in sCLK-EX board.

 

12 minutes ago, afrancois said:

The shortest path I know of right now is the Devialet Pro DAC/amplifier/renderer all in one combination.

Thats the example you gave me and thats what I commented on.

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12 minutes ago, elan120 said:

I currently lean more towards 65w processor instead of 95w without Cuda Offload, which will need a power supply no more than 200w, perhaps around 160w even.  Finding a capable low noise power supply is one of the key search now in addition to finding a suitable Mobo that will have txUSBexp taking one of the 4 output points sCLK-EX.  I still have a lot of research to do, that is the main reason I hope to see if there are more inputs to help put this server together.

65w processor will struggle with DSD256 and heavy processing let alone DSD 512. I would look at the HQPlayer thread and some of @ Miska's posts and recommendations, since it will be centred on HQPlayer.

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16 hours ago, elan120 said:

Thanks for the input.  I should clarify, for this particular server, I only plan to use -2's filters, which from experience, 65w processor will work fine, but to run non -2's filters, it will require more than 4 cores, which I am not planning to build at this time.

Thanks for clarifying I assumed you would want to use all of HQPlayer features, I also see that you are leaning towards a Linear power supply.

I did look into building a higher power version similar to what @ johnseye & @ Elvia have/ are building. I looked at Jetway's boards since they have been succesfully used by others in particular  JNF595-H110 (perhaps you have already come across this) it can handle an i7 - 6700 and lower both 91W and 65W and has the benefit of a 19V DC input.

You can fit/ get fitted the sCLK- EX board plus upgrade the motherboard clock with the SOTM USB card, clock the ethernet etc.

Ive heard a Plixir power supply via a friend who upgraded his HDPlex and it did blow that away. They can make it up to your specific needs eg two box 19V for the dc input and lower to power the sCLK, USB etc, directly.

Myself I'm leaning towards an ATX solution with  linear  power for specific componenets, as I intend to use the PC for more functions.

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8 hours ago, TopQuark said:

This is not HQP but just for reference, I am using a NUC i5-6260U with 15W TDP and 38W max sustained load that runs DSD256 without any problem.  Worse is, this is not direct DSD read.  The flac source is converted to 64 bit and sample rate bumped to 352.8kHz and down to 11.20Mhz before outputting it in DSD256.  Even after adding volume leveling and parametric EQ, the system still runs flawlessly and I still have headroom to spare.  Here's a shot of the signal path:

Thanks @ TopQuark, Roon does everything on my i5 6300 but struggles a bit with HQPlayer and heavy processing even with JRiver and DSD it sometimes freezes, although these programs seem to adapt well to the hardware given. Some users on the HQPlayer forum have got stuck with 4 cores, hence my suggestion.

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20 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

@marce, any opinion or reference on best mobo to do our sCLK-EX server with?  Always looking for a better build quality without costing an arm and a leg.

Yes Please

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1 hour ago, lmitche said:

I tried the same on a ghent audio dc cable today.  No good, the music died. Stay tuned for more.

Could be because it's a star quad cable designed to attenuate EMI, if it's the one using Canare 4s6

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32 minutes ago, limniscate said:

The sPS-500 also seemed a hair better than the LPS-1, but I'm not sure I could discern the difference in a blind test.

In my set up they sound completely different, I must be in the minority, listening is essential I suppose, don't just rely on recommendations.

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1 hour ago, austinpop said:

You do realize that nest-feathering essentially means you’re saying I’m lining my pockets?

It also means to beautify @ austinpop as in furnish your nest (system)

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Many thanks @ Johnseye

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@Johnseye the sata ii filter is not for sale in most places it appears to have been superseded by the Sata iii version. Although you can still get it to order. I think the version iii only filters the power line. Did you go for the version ii by recomendation either from sotm or Roy? Did you get any feedback on the sound quality differences between the 2?

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1 hour ago, Jiffi32 said:

The SATA II filter is still available, it's on audiophile optimiser's web store to order from stock

Thanks for that might email them for more details between the 2. I have this one which filters the power line and seems to work for me, quieter background better bass etc. will try Sotm's version ii. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound®-Elfidelity-Filtering-PC-HiFi-Computer/dp/B00WWQAYG0

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40 minutes ago, flkin said:

I have a problem with this setup in that sometimes in the middle of a song, the connection from Roon to the sMS200 gets cut off and often requires a reboot of some Trifecta devices to restore the connection.

There are some settings in Roon for re sync delay and buffer sizes you could try altering these also check in the Eunhasu set up for the sms200  for similar settings.

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2 hours ago, Confused said:

That said, I do remain puzzled by the tX-USBultra.

It just re-clocks the signal with the same clock as the sms200 Ultra. Chaining 2 or 3 clocks seems to have a positive impact (reduction of jitter) which shows just how poor the original signal is, and how much research needs to be done to fully understand Digital audio ?

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17 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

No I am not saying the PSU is as good as as an SR7. I'm just saying it's reportedly very good and SR7 is the obvious benchmark to aspire to.

The Zenith se power supply was designed by Dr Sean Jacobs of Custom Hi fi Cables, it' seems' to be based on his DC3 design with Mundorf Caps this feeds a Supermicro motherboard in the Zenith. It would make a very good alternative high end supply.

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17 minutes ago, mozes said:

I have a similar setup. A 2TB HDD sitting in an enclosure connected to LPS-1 powered tX-USBexp via USB3.0. The tX-USBexp provides clean power to the HDD via the USB 3.0 bus.

I am also considering this and the value of having a second tx-USBexp. Why not connect the HDD directly to the motherboard via SATA, you can still power it seperately/externaly with a LPS just use a SATA Data cable. I can see the benefit of connecting the tx-USBexp via PCIE ( direct route to CPU) but you also have a weak link, the USB socket on the HDD enclosure, plus the expense of a second tx. Any thoughts appreciated.

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41 minutes ago, mozes said:

I am also not sure if my motherboard has a second SATA socket.

Thanks, it looks like your motherboard has 1 SATA connection and the second one via the mini PCIE slot which is already taken up by the second tx-USBexp ie. a socket that is PCIE but also connect to the motherboard via SATA for m2 ssd's etc. So there does'nt appear to be a simple way for you to test, without taking out the OS SSD and loading it onto the HDD.

But I suppose you could play the same music file from both your OS SSD and your HDD and see if there's an audible difference.

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2 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

If you don't wanna invest in a second tx, that's really up to you and end of the story.

The idea of investing in the second tx is to first make sure there will be an audible benefit.