A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[KingRex]

I probably have a completely different design of system, but wonder if an upgraded Ethernet cable would benefit me.   I have a purpose built computer music server with LPS and multiple rails to power internal devices such as drives, mother board etc.  I run Server 16 with AO.   I connect my server to my DAC with a nice USB Cable.  I get a lot of my music from Tidal and my NAS.  I have cat 6 throughout my home.  I have a pretty cheap jumper from the wall to my server and was looking to upgrade it.  This is where I was wondering if a filtered Ethernet cable and or a iSO LAN isolator  would benefit my system.  Is anyone else configured as I am and tried these products to know if you get a decent return on the $.

 

If I were to add a linear PS to my network switch, modem and NAS, would the iSO not be so important.

 

Thanks

[KingRex]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

I agree with the conclusion although my comparison was with the mR and iR

 

 

It will, but I'm personally more interested in whether it would beat the modified motherboard with tX-USBexp and tX-USBultra trifecta version.

Thank you Johnseye, nice comparison,review.

[KingRex]

6 hours ago, tedwoods said:

To be honest, I don't know what the optimizations over the standard Carlings are...

I got mine directly from Poland: https://avcorp.pl/product-eng-1769-GigaWatt-G-C20A-Installation-Circuit-Breaker-mono-phase.html

 

 

That is a din rail mounted breaker.  I dont know where you live, but in the USA, that would require an external box fed from a CB in the main panel.  Would like to know how it is installed and how it sounds.  Thanks 

[KingRex]

7 hours ago, One and a half said:

Dedicated lines keep the noisy appliances away from audio equipment purely by distance. Further away the better, so longer the dedicated line the better, serious conducted noise has no strength over a long distance, it's a classic increase the distance and the energy reduces by the square.

 

Keep in mind that audio components make a lot of AC noise themselves! As for 6AWG wiring, close to 16mm, and self power factor correcting, I need to think about that one. A larger cable has less resistance, but increased capacitance, but compared to what. It's possible the 6AWG is shielded or has a coat of armour to increase capacitance. There's no data on Jim Weil's site, other than propaganda, another topic I suppose.

 

I did find this of interest on this page.

 

"Misconception #3: There is up to a hundred feet of wire in the walls, so the last 6 feet of power cord can't possibly make any difference.
Answer: “The power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. As stated in #1 the local current and electromagnetic effects directly affect the sonic performance of the component.”

 

I found the article by Shunyata interesting.  Lots of trial and error.  So many people want to beat an idea with theory.  I don't have the electrical engineering background to go there.  More importantly, I trust my ears. If it sounds good, it worked.  

[KingRex]

12 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

I think every time you introduce a new device with it's capacity to influence the sound by introducing noise you stand the chance of negatively impacting your SQ.

 

Looking forward to hearing the results of your electrical wiring.  My electrician will be finished with my work tomorrow morning.  I've gone with dedicated 20 amp circuits and 10 awg wire.  I've twisted the three wires together with John S's recommendation.  Originally I was going to use pump wire which was twisted at the mfg.  Lowes screwed that order up so I ended up getting my own strands.  Using a drill and a board with holes cut into it for each strand I was able to get a very tight twist.  I've also introduced a Topaz 91001-31 isolation transformer for two channel devices only.  I'm using Walker Audio E-SST contact treatment everywhere possible.  This is essentially paste with silver in it.  Since I'm adding it along with all my other changes I'll never know if it helps.  It' just one of those things that may help so why not.

 

One problem I've had in my theater room is that I share a sub between two channel and multi channel equipment.  The sub is powered so if it's plugged into the 2 channel circuit, it's being powered by a different circuit from the multi channel equipment.  This creates a ground loop and a minor hum when watching movies.  I don't notice it when the movie is on, but when it's not and I stick my head against a speaker I heard it, so I wanted it fixed.  I'll have 2 outlets for the sub and change the power cable depending on whether I'm listening to music or watching a movie.

 

Along with all these new improvements to my power my 9 ft. pool table is being setup tomorrow so it will be a fun filled day.

 

How did the install go.  Did you use NMB and twist it, or loose conductor twisted and pulled in a pipe.  How did it sound.  I bet surprising good.   Happy for you.  

[KingRex]

8 minutes ago, tedwoods said:

I currently live in the EU.

My electrician did the installation, so I don't really have the specifics.

In comparison to what I had before (some sort of medium thickness unbranded in-wall cable, Siemens circuit breaker and Legrand receptacle) I immediately noticed improved bass, control and dynamics and over time an overall feel of ease of delivery.

I can't pinpoint the effect of the circuit breaker individually though, as the cable, breaker and receptacle were installed simultaneously.

 

 

 

Think about clarity, clearness.  Did it get better, no change, worse.   I'm  curious as to what the twisting may or may not have done.  Were you at all involved in the twisting.  Did you see how tight it got.  How many twist?   Was it a sheathed cable?  Glad is sounds to have provided a positive result.  Good on you for getting it done.  

[KingRex]

My power strip is wired with 4 awg. As with #6 awg (#4 is larger) you separate the conductor and push the fork you just made around either side of the screw.  Pretty much every quality receptacle I have seen comes with clamps, not bare screws found in residential grade.  The clamps will come down tight.  Wear latex gloves when touching the wire.  I also use deox.  

 

Here is a thought, there is a brass jumper from the top outlet to bottom outlet on a duplex receptacle.  If you forked a #6, then push them under each screw, you now have an actual wire connected to the screw clamp on that receptacle.  

 

I also pig tail whenever possible.  Now you are pulling a 6" - #10 awg jumper off the #6. A blue wire nut will hold a #6 and a couple #10.  A split bolt will hold more. 

 

There is always a way to get it done safe. 

[KingRex]

I also have a clean well functioning Topaz 2.4 kva 91002-32 transformer I no longer use. Its the. 00005pF model.  My work phone is (206)949-5739.

 

It needs to be located in another room. Its large and will make noise.  

 

I also have a small Tripp Lite 500 Watt medical grade isolation transformer I don't use. 

[KingRex]

The Topaz did a very good job with my Conrad Johnson Premier 140.  It got rid of a lot of mechanical noise.  It made the front end equipment shift in a way I did not want to go so I only plugged the amp into the receptacle fed by it.  I sold that amp and use a set of Altec Lansing 1570B modded by Tom Tutay with Transition Audio Design.  The Topaz shifts the sound for those amps in an undesirable direction.   I wrote in another post how I view power conditioning as hit and miss.  You have to listen and see what it does for you.  With the CJ, it took Emmanuel Go with First Sound Audio to teach me how to hear the slight veil it added.  That veil was so small compared to the benefits, I would still be using it if it were not for my purchasing different amps.  The new amps show a pronounced suppression of way too much ??????  It just does not sound right.  The Altec responded very well to the Akiko Corelli.  So did all my front end gear.  I had the Tripp Lite first.  It worked well with the CJ but I did not feel it had the headroom so I went bigger with the 2.4kva.  Definitely freed up the air and ease of play.  Lot more headroom.  Its a very good transformer and will provide a great benefit in some circumstances.  

[KingRex]

I am by no means any expert.  I have my opinnions I have developed by personal trial and conversations with a few industry professionals. I have developed a belief that power conditioning is best not used, unless absolutly necessary.  I need it.  I have dirty power at my house.  My Rega Osiris mechanically hummed so loud, it could be heard in the next room.  I took it to two friends houses, it was dead quit there.  I have been forced to seek out power conditioning.   No one wants to spend $1k to $7k and more unless necessary.  I did not. 

 

My CJ also hummed very loud.  I took it apart, floated the transformers on sorborhane and added sound dampener material to the covers.  It still made to much noise.  I tried the Syncro, it took out the mechanical noise but killed the music.  I bought the tripp lite.  Step in the right direction. I got the Topaz and it worked.  

 

TAS and Stereophile make it appear power conditioners are some sort of magic device that better all our stereo gear. They make it seem every stereo will suddenly have an expanded sound stage, more full bass, extended treble etc.  I don't believe that is true.  It is my opinion most alter the music but not in beneficial ways.  I have personally heard a veil or compression of dynamics from most everything I tried.  Why put a bunch of electronic equipment in front of your music if not needed.  It might not be necessary. 

 

That is a pretty round about way of saying, I don't know why a line isolation transformer sounds good on some components and not other.    I don't know why my amp benefitted, but not my preamp, phonograph preamp or music server.  

 

I will say this, the guy who sold me the Isotek Syncro for the Rega brought over other Isotek components to allow me to plug in all my equipment.  After plugging it all in, he even admitted the effect was negative and only the integrated amp was benefiting.  

 

I am fortunate I am an electrician by trade.  I have had the ability to run multiple dedicated lines from my panel to my rack.  I put the Topaz transformer in my basement with a dedicated feed from it to a quad of receptacles in my wall. I also had a second quad of receptacles with nothing in-between them and the panel.  I was able to switch all my equipment back and forth, then listen.  I ended up only feeding my CJ amp with the Topaz.  It worked great for that unit.  When I sold that amp, the Topaz did not work with my Altec.  They actually got more loud.  They did not like the transformer at all.  They made strange sounds.  That sent me down a new path.  In the end my cord direct from the panel to a custom distribution box with an Akiko was the trick.  All my components perform best when feed this way.  When I unplug the Akiko, it is hard to tell its gone.  At certain times of the day the amps will hum loud.  Plug the Akiko back in and 10 minutes later things calm down and the mechanical noise goes away.  

 

I will close by saying this, if a power cord or interconnect can have a heard alteration in the sound of playback, just think what an active component can do.  

[KingRex]

2 interesting points.  When I first got my Altec amps, the builder had floated the ground.  I have since solidly bonded it.  That could be the reason is did not

Iike The 60v/60v topology. It really had no ground at all.  

 

Also, polltion going back up the load side  from other gear is a factor I had not considered.  Now that I have been mentored some on computers, I see how that could be a problem. 

 

I guess I could plug it in again for experimentation sake.  The other issue with  transformers is you can not turn them on and off unless you have a soft start. The inrush will break them down.  I believe this unit cost me about $15 per month to run 24x7.

 

I have the Akiko Corelli.  It is their top of the line conditioner.  Look up Robert Neill at Worldwidewholesale.  He gave me a very competative price.  He was also the second person telling me to run a cord from my panel direct to the distribution strip.  He knows what works and attempts to utilize the best product for the $.  He is a big Rendu fan. Does not sell vinyl products.  

[KingRex]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

I'm running 10 awg with 20amp breakers.  No issue there.  My main concern was when I'm coming off the wire with a spade whether I'm choking the current.  Also the spades aren't copper, or maybe they're tin plated copper.  A twisted pigtail gets better contact than a crimped spade.  It's probably negligible but when you go to the trouble of rewiring you don't want to do anything which would negatively impact the work. 

 

Why are you using a spade.  Get rid of them. They are not helping the sound. Turn of the breaker, cut off the spade, strip the wire back about 3/4 inch and put them under the clamp. Tighten them pretty firm. Once you have them set strait and ready to screw back on the box, check the torque.   Didn't you say you have Porter Ports or Furutech.  They have a clamp, easy to do. You may have to put a twist on the ground. Not sure if you have a screw only or clamp there too.

 

I will try and post a couple pix on how to wire receptacles with pig tails or using large gauge wire. 

[KingRex]

Johnseye, what has a spade connection?   The receptacle or the termination point in what appears to be a fused disconnect from what One And A Half is showing. I thought you were messing with a receptacle.  I would not advise getting into your panel. Way to dangerous. 

[KingRex]

10 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

That wasn't my picture One and a Half was showing.  I'm referring to the receptacle and at the isolation transformer.

Then cut the spades off.  They will impact performance.  Do you have (2) duplex receptacles in a wall box or just one.  See photo.  I want to send a picture demonstrating how I would wire them.

 

Can you pull, the face off your transformer and send a picture.  Need to see that too.  This one is hard wired with wire nuts. My other had a terminal block. I want to look at the screws.  See photo. 

[KingRex]

This is how I wire a quad.  I am only showing the white and ground for the example. Notice the jumper on the neutral. Notice the ground is open to the clockwise rotation of the screw so it will clamp tight when you torque the screw. Also notice on the ground I pinched the wire together before tightening it. Most of the better receptacles have clamps on the side of the ground just like on the neutral and hot. If I were working with a number six I would pigtail off with number tens. This configuration is called a pigtail.  The tan wirenut is good for 3x#10 wires. Red is easier for a novice. 

[KingRex]

16 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

 

I have the same model which looks exactly like this one you are showing,  compared to my TOPAZ- 1KVA - .001pF the latter performs cleaner quiter and less hot, it is just better, the music is more natural and organic, i purchased the 91002-32 excited for what the smaller was doing and if a 1KVA with .001 was performing so well, the 2.4 with .0005pF was supposed to be a lot better, for my surprise it was the other way around...it sounds cold and dirty

 

Is there any way to put in these 91002-32 what they are missing inside for them to work as they should?

 

 

What are you powering. I don't like the transformer on front end gear, but it was great with my CJ amp. 

[KingRex]

Nice job.  If it's sounding good, I would not mess with the spades.  It is hard to get a solid connection in the transformer without them.  The ground on the receptacle should be fine.   Don't remove the wire nuts to utilize smaller.  If you do, you have to trim off  1/2" or so of the copper, re-strip, then put the new wirenut on.  If you don't cut the wire back, the scoring from the old wirenut on the conductor will cause heat and failures.  This can lead to arching and a fire, or a wire just pops out of the nut and you loose power.  

 

I like the twisting you did.  Looks tight and even.  

 

I am curious your thought on the transformer.  Let us know your thoughts when you have time to try it in and out of the system.

 

Congrats, it's money well spent.  

[KingRex]

You have a refurbished transformer?  That a big word.  What does refurbished mean?  You might not have a topaz any more.  You may have topaz iron and magnets but all else could be different. Who knows what was done to it.  

[KingRex]

There is a world of difference between used and refurbished.  I worked for Square D.  There is no reason these transformers should not be running strong past 40 or more years.   Especially since they generally don't get continuous usage.   They should be rock solid to date.    

[KingRex]

I have heard, why bother with the linear PS on the switch.  Why not get a JCAT Ethernet card and take the NAS direct to the server.  Any thoughts. 

[KingRex]

10 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Why even do that?  sCLK-EX server (LAN sCLK-EX point) or HDD connected (powered separately) via server SATA connector.  Drop the NAS, ethernet, switch, etc.  Go direct USB via tXUSBexp to DAC.

I guess I jumped into the middle.  This is a pretty heavy stream. I use a single Mojo Audio server.  I USB to the DAC.  My internal storage is far more quiet than my network.  I was told to upgrade with a JCAT femto Ethernet with its own power supply.  Bypass the switch.  

 

How important is the router when accessing Tidal. I have a Arris.  Internal PS.  

[KingRex]

12 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

That JCAT femto is an option but I wouldn't half ass it.  Apply those funds to the sCLK-EX board purchase with modification done by SOtM to the server.  Now you got something that even makes software optimization a mute matter, in my opinion.  

Your never going to get as good of SQ from a router based internet stream as you would from your own data source. But you can try to clean it up.  The sCLK-EX point on the LAN of the server would go a long way towards that.  Now everything is so simple.

I don't get it.  The sCLK-EX appears to be a clock.  What does it have to do with connecting Ethernet to my server.  Yes my internal data source is outstanding.  I am absolutely astounded at the SQ with Win Server 16, AO and HQ player.  Incredibly musical and engaging.

  And yes.  Simple is the key.  My wife needs to turn the  monitor on and select an artist to listen too.  There can be no selecting files or pathways to get or send a feed.  Right now its all there.  Very easy to navigate. 

When you say router based internet stream, do you mean th JCAT card is the router?  Thanks

[KingRex]

Austinpop, thank you for a very thoughtful and through review.  Could I ask a couple question.  Excuse me if you addressed either of these and I missed it or did not understand.   As a preface, I use a Mojo Audio unit that is somewhat like the SE in that is has individual linear power to the drive, storage and motherboard.  I get amazing results from music served from the internal HD.  I get ok results with streaming from the NAS.  When I find an album I like on my NAS I export it to my internal HD and play it from there.  So, my questions are:

 

First.  Were you doing any upsampling or just playing native redbook - WAV rips from CD.

Second.  In your Best Zenith chain you have a USBultra, a Cybershaft  clock and other devices.  Are these only necessary for the ethernet connection to your NAS or streaming Tidal source.  In other words, for best sound performance from the internal storage, do you find these other devices necessary.

 

Thanks 

[KingRex]

On 1/26/2018 at 5:29 PM, austinpop said:

 

Finding 1: The best Zenith SE chain outperforms my current reference chain

 

This is the SE-based chain that sounded best in my system:

• sCLK-EX-modded switch (LPS-1) > Zenith SE > tX-USBultra (Hynes SR-4) > Codex
• Cybershaft OP-14 10 MHz reference clock feeding the sCLK-EX board in the tX-USBultra

 

 

Austinpop, can you  talk more about this chain. I don't quite understand it. I called sotm and they did not mod a switch. My idea of a switch is something like a D-Link or Netgear. I'm also not sure how your cabling your equipment together. The Cyber shaft only has coax in and out.  I see the connect to the USBultra,  but how  do I connect that to my DAC or server which are USB.  I also don't get how the cybershaft is not in a chain. Its almost like it is a loop in and out of the USBultra.  Can you talk to the cabling. 

 

Thanks. 

[KingRex]

36 minutes ago, lateboomer said:

Hi Austinpop,

 

It is embarrass for me to ask this novice question, but I hope you could explain briefly to me. In the first trifecta, the server is supposed bridged and direct connect to its client sms-200. Then may I ask what is the purpose of switch Zyxel in between the server and client? Does this still consider to be direct bridged? And in latest topology, there are even 2 switches precede the Zenith SE, so again why do you need Zyxel? Many Thanks.

I'm in the same boat too.  Did a little more reading last night, but this chain is huge.  Its hard to find the relevant answer to some questions.  I too don't get why 2 switches either.  I do get a bad switch following a good switch is no improvement.   I also don't understand why the clock only seems to have one connection to the USBultra?  Is it a software directive that tells it to see the clock and use it.  And there is also a jumper bypassing the Zenith from the Zyxel switch to the USBultra.  hmmm.

May at SOTM is saying they don't modify any switches.  I guess the answer is you are doing the work yourself.  Is that correct?  What about a Aqvox switch.  Do they provide any improvement for streaming from the NAS/Tidal.

Thanks