Mac Mini and Ayre QB-9--Amarra noticeably improving the sound?

[warrensomebody]

RAM, SSD, FW drive, USB cables... you've got to stop smoking and posting at the same time! I'm willing to bet you a QB-9 that you couldn't tell the difference with any of those in a double-blind test.

 

[vanderdm]

If you can't hear the difference you probably don't have very resolving equipment. Judging by your retarded comment you probably can't afford it..

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Warrensomebody - Your comments add nothing to the discussion and only serve to fan the flames like an internet troll. Nobody here will take you seriously with your "I'm willing to bet you" comment because they've all listened to the actual products instead of place bets on topics of which they have no clue. You're trolling comments are not welcome here. Please change your ways or move on to other sites where you can add nothing and troll all you want.

 

[Dave Clark]

Love it and someone should take him up on the offer..."I'm willing to bet you a QB-9 that you couldn't tell the difference with any of those in a double-blind test."

 

The offer is simply that you 'can not" tell the difference with any of those items and he will give you a QB9, so all you have to say is that you can not tell the difference during the test... even though you can! And you get a QB9!

 

How about now? nah... now? nah... now? nah...!!! okay, give me the QB9.

 

[warrensomebody]

Yeah, I could have phrased that better (sorry vanderdm), but I just can't see any way that something like RAM can have any impact on sound quality, unless you're thrashing vm for some reason -- decoding lossless audio or sending data over firewire just isn't that intensive. But I'm willing to be enlightened. :-)

 

[Dave Clark]

Just giving you a hard time... Hey people hear what they hear and why things make a difference or not is not always easily explained.

 

[vanderdm]

Hey no problem, it was good for a laugh..

 

Hey Warrensomebody guess what ( you'll even find this harder to believe then ram) putting the QB-9 on isolation spikes also makes an audible difference..

 

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

and don't forget to clip the power leg on the USB cable.

 

 

clay

 

 

[warrensomebody]

You are so right about that one. :-)

 

[Part-Time Audiophile]

All mockery aside, I submit that warrensomebody is more right than wrong, despite how much fun it might be to point and laugh.

 

The simple fact is that most systems simply aren't resolving enough to discriminate such subtle differences -- esp. those made by cabling and little tweaks. Sorry.

 

To wit, I've spent the last 2 weeks doing nothing (sorry, boss!) but doing A/B testing of interconnects. I swapped between source and pre, pre and amp, and between tape-out and headphone amp. Ultimate result? The differences, if present at all, are smaller than I'm able to reliably discern.

 

Now, there are lots of caveats here. First, my speakers are not very efficient -- the Totems are only 86dB. That said, my Stax are 100dB efficient. But they're electrostats, and therefore might be highly resistive and therefore immune to cabling variations. Further, my amp and pre are not necessarily the newest cutting edge gear, but they were pretty high end in their day. Both are considered "warm" (and perhaps a bit rolled off on the high end).

 

So, yes, it's possible that my systems are unable to determine fine grained variations. Put another way, it's not resolving. But ... I am perfectly willing to wager (not an Ayre, but more of a gentleman's bet) that my system has more in common with most of yours than not. And that said, I think you'd be shocked at how little such things as RAM, power, and cabling really have on your total system sound. Don't believe -- test.

 

Getting back to warrensomebody -- while the received wisdom is that everything matters, and that such system changes as an SSD disk will "dramatically improve" performance -- this is simply not true. While everything may well matter, it is simply a fact that very little actually matters much -- for the vast majority of systems out there.

 

And further, I have to submit the following -- this isn't a bad thing! The amount of money I'm able to save on uber cabling is allowing me to get a much sweeter source than otherwise would be possible.

 

So, to sum up: one thing we, as audiophiles, regularly ignore is that there is a wild variation in systems and system performance. More importantly, there is little to no discussion or even understanding of what the word "resolving" really means. And until we can point to that and come to grips with it, perhaps we can set aside the mockery.

 

[jay]

Warrensomebody--

 

I fully appreciate your skepticism. I was (and in some cases at least still want to remain) a huge skeptic relative to many "tweakers" out there, but this forum gathers quite a few folks who post extremely valid advice about how to, in some cases, "tweak" out-of-the-box solutions to get better sound. These tweaks should be, and I claim are, repeatable in others' systems, but not without some other conditions' being met.

 

I don't know vanderdm nor have I communicated with him outside of this forum post, but I have to back up his findings on at least a couple of his recommendations, and I'll presume (because I had the same results on a couple of them) that he has valid reasons to make his other claims even though I haven't heard the same differences per se in all cases in my system.

 

I first completely concur with his statement that you have to have a very resolving system to hear any benefits. I didn't for a very, very long time. That's not to say that I didn't have an expensive nor great sounding system (both objective statements)--I was very happy with my set-up, but I don't think it was ultimately as resolving as it could have been (and that I thought it was at the time). And if others have tried these tweaks and don't hear a difference, don't presume that I'm making a statement that my system somehow sounds better than yours by what I'm claiming I can now hear in mine. I'm simply giving my opinion about audible differences within my own system.

 

I switched out a lot of stuff, starting first with the DAC (moving from an original Benchmark DAC1 fed optically to a QB-9 obviously fed w/ a "stock" usb2 cable) which yielding a significant improvement in my "enjoyment" of the sound (objective statement). However, the difference in sound was noticeable even to the casual listener (my wife). Next, I switched to a Moon i-7 integrated from an Ayre K-5xe pre and an Anthem P2 amp. That step also had a great impact on the "live" sound of my system and the combination of those two component changes (or rather switching out the old three for the new two) greatly increased the resolution I was capable of hearing. The switch to the Moon was also noticeable by my wife. Then the tweaking started again for me. One thing of note--with these changes I felt much more comfortable playing the same music MUCH louder in my room, which I claim is a great test for any changes to a system (you may debate me on that).

 

I switched from MIT Shotgun S1 XLR cables and MIT Magnum M3 speaker cables to Audience AU24-e interconnects and speaker cables. Big improvement for me, although I bet my wife didn't notice the difference like she did with the components. Again, she hears my system from the other room or occasionally will sit in the room and listen to a song or two, but doesn't listen to my system 2-4 hours a day like I do. Nor does she love music like I do. Again, I could play the system louder. I have not measured how much louder, so take this as an objective statement.

 

Ok, long set-up, but I'm trying to give you some frame of reference for the types of changes I've been making to my system. If you add them up (assuming I don't sell my old equipment), the cost is significant...well over $10K, but assume that replaced about $6K worth of stuff. Ok, still significant even netted out. Same speakers (Mirage OMD-28s) and same Mac Mini on the back and front end respectively. I don't consider any of these "tweaks," nor do I think any of you if you could listen to my old system vs. my new system would debate these claims that my "new" sounds better than my "old." But you'll have to just trust me since that's not possible.

 

All right. With all that, I can now back up vanderdm's experience with the USB cable and with the firewire music (vs. streaming it over ethernet from my Thecus network drive. I cannot confirm (although I also can't deny) his findings with the solid state drive, but more on that in a second. And these differences were slight, and I could only hear them when I went a little bit on the extreme side of testing...at louder than normal listening levels for me.

 

I bought (and burned in over the next 3-4 weeks) a Locus Axis usb cable for about $500. It's better than the $10 usb2 cable that shipped with something I bought. I don't understand it, because it's still in the digital realm, but the USB cable is audible. Here's where I can hear it. Pick a song with good female vocals, maybe some light guitar, some light drums, and a bass guitar. Turn your system up to the point where it's right on the edge of being uncomfortable to listen to, particularly at points in the song where you're hitting limits in your system (be it limits in the hardware, your room, the source material, or some combination). Right to the point where you turn it up and then want to turn it down about 0.5 to 1 db to take a little of the edge off...know what I mean? Now, swap out your good USB cable for your cheap one, and play the same stretch of the song where you're almost wanting to turn it down. You will hear more crap with the cheap cable. 10x out of 10x if your system has the right resolution and your new cable is of the quality of the Axis. You will want to turn the system down, probably 2-3 db, with the crap usb cable. Cymbal hits will not sound quite right. String timbre on the guitar will not sound quite right. Vocal stretches from the singer will sound more etchy. The total sound will have less air and sound more muddy where more is going on. For the songs I'm using to test with (Neko Case from her Fox Confessor album), the breaking point is somewhere around 80-83 db from my listening chair. At my more normal listening level of 74-77 db, the difference is less noticeable, but still there.

 

I did the same thing with the same songs/same passages between a song served from my Thecus over the network and one on my firewire 800 drive right next to the Mac Mini. The differences here were noticeable, but less so than the USB cable change. Again, it's in the 80 db range that the differences really come out. At lower volume levels, I'm not sure I could tell the difference.

 

How about the solid state drive? Well, I didn't have two Mac Minis of the same specs to A/B test with, and I was not about to pull the drive in and out. I will say the SSD sounded like crap for the first 12 hours or so (which was the same experience I had when the Mac Mini was new relative to the 3 year old Mac Mini I had used for a long time), but when I woke up the next morning after playing it all night it was "fine" again. Burn in? I don't know. But I know my system's sound very well and it went from great sounding to crap sounding to back to great again. Did it end up better? I can't say for certain, but I know it doesn't sound worse so I'm keeping it in the Mac Mini (I dropped the old drive into my old Mac Mini as I was planning to replace that drive anyway). BTW, it was an OCZ Vertex 128gb SSD, which I suspect are middle-of-the-road SSDs, so perhaps a "better" one might have yielded "better" results for me?

 

I didn't not hear any differences between USB slots on the Mac Mini as some have suggested in other threads...sounds like vanderdm didn't hear any differences there either. I have not dropped the $500 to yet upgrade my memory to 8g, so I can't comment on that either (I don't think that's something vanderdm tried either, but not sure).

 

And yes, I know that none of this counts anything close to even a "single" blind test, but I'm not asking for you to give me a QB-9. If you want to come to my house in Ohio please do, but bring your money because I'm pretty sure you'll hear the same things.

 

So in short summary to an overly long and not very scientific write up, biggest improvements (and biggest cost) were 1) replacement of the pre-amp/amp, 2) replacement of DAC. The next best improvement (with coincidentally the next biggest cost)...3) replace analog cables. The next improvement, and now the impacts are beginning to be in what I consider the "audible tweak" range...USB cable. 4) Maybe get a $250 firewire 2tb drive if you don't already have a good network drive and get an SSD if you are really looking for the last tweaks--I don't know if I can hear the firewire difference because I also did the SSD, so take that with a grain of salt as well.

 

I have a very critical buddy coming over for a listen today, and he's quite familiar with the sound of my system, so I'll repeat some of these with him (yes, not a true double blind test in any case, I know), and I'll post whether he hears the same differences or not.

 

Jay

 

[Dave Clark]

Very well said, though I would add also that people 'can' react differently to system changes. That is, one's perception - or reception - of differences or changes in a system and hence changes to the sound is, well... different. So one's reaction or perception might not fit with yours... subtle to you might be significant to them and vice versa.

 

[vanderdm]

I was suprised to hear that the SSD made no difference.. ( Did you install a fast one?) In my system the SSD was a big improvement..

 

I guess everybody's experience is different..

 

This is an insane hobby.. what can I say..

 

[warrensomebody]

For the record, I do believe that people perceive differences from even the smallest of system tweaks. It's just that I think these perceived differences are subjective, and not anything that could be scientifically or statistically verified -- especially for an entire population, but probably even for that one individual. Double blind testing is science, akin to conducting a medical study... but we all know that it isn't as much fun as tweaking. Nor do any of us have the time or means to conduct a proper study.

 

In lieu of attempting to conduct something like this with myself as the subject, I've had to rely on the next best thing -- carefully conducted measurements. I know these aren't the same sort of thing because at the end of the day one is left with a pile of measurements that provide no direct understanding of what we perceive, but I think that we would all acknowledge that we must at least start this game by attempting to recreate the original signal as accurately as possible. That provides the most solid foundation for layering on our perceptions.

 

So when I said that I believe that people perceive differences from even the smallest of system tweaks, I really mean that I believe they do, but I believe this is psychological -- homeopathy for the ears, so to speak. For me to even want to try a tweak (and by tweak, I might mean anything from isolation spikes to swapping out one DAC for another), I need to hear a good logical argument first for why it might provide some benefit to the sound quality. And my threshold is pretty high... because I've spent all too much time on things that haven't panned out for one reason or another (especially room correction). I can understand the logic that a superior USB cable might deliver a lower bit-error rate... but I can't see the logic that says that either this error won't be reread/corrected before decoding, or that even if decoded incorrectly the statistical improbability of this occurring will be perceptible to the listener.

 

Now if you believe that you can hear the error, great. It's just that I don't believe I can (and I don't mean I don't think I'm able, I mean I don't _believe_), and this rules out the possibility of the tweak every providing the desired outcome for me -- improved sound quality.

 

I'll say one more thing about the audiophile game while I'm waxing philosophical... that audio reviews are designed to sell equipment, bottom line. I have no problem with that. We all want there to be a thriving audio industry with lots of components to choose from, and lots of improvements being made. It's just that when the reviewer starts rambling on about how this latest component is just en epsilon (but an absolutely _essential_ epsilon) better than the last incredible component he's tried, my eyes start to roll. Please give me some information I can use -- and by that, I mean something that provides a solid logical foundation for me to want to give it a try (e.g. Hansen's white paper on minimum phase -- that makes me want to try a QB-9).

 

Honestly, I don't want to spoil anyone's fun here. I think I'm like all of you in that I enjoy tweaking and evaluating things. It's just that I'm pretty skeptical of tweaks without sound logical arguments attached.

 

[askat1988]

Very well put Socrates7 and warrensomebody. I have recently awoken from some audiophile myths I held strongly in my mind. I used to think that lossless was the only way to go. I recently did a blind test with two friends (one a former professional musician) and neither could discern between wav, flac, and the actual cd (probably the best cd drive around in the esoteric ux-1) in my extremely resolving headphone system.

 

Lenovo Q100 w/external 2.5" usb drive for music streamed wireless> APL NWO 3.0SE w/heavily modded squeezebox inside> Synergisitc Research Apex IC >Singlepower SDS-XLR headphone amp > Sony MDR R10 headphones

 

Now I re-encoded to flac and am quite happy. Things may be a bit different if I was actually using the PC for playback to something like a USB or firewire DAC, but I strongly suspect that doing blind tests would banish many of the statements such as this or that drive, or cable or OS makes a significant difference. I am not positive of this statement and that's why tweaking will always be part of my system and I am open to everything making changes, but I am much more suspect now. Unless someone says they have done some sort of blind test, does not need to be perfectly scientific meeting all parameters of a double blind testing, I pretty much don't pay much mind to the "this drive, or this cable or this ram" makes a big difference. This is a big change for me.

 

I have been doing PC playback with many different components for about 6 years now, have tried most software players, a few sound cards, etc. I am sold on the modded squeezebox in my APL right now but I would like to try some other pro dacs. I have demoed the DAD DAC and previously owned the Antelope Audio OCX and 10M clocks , so I have played around quite a bit. The whole mac front interests me and I may jump in sometime soon.

 

I appreciate this forum a lot, thanks.

 

[jay]

With all due respect to those who don't want to believe in tweaks that can't be easily objectively measured and scientifically proven in every single system out there, please DON'T believe the claims. As a previous poster correctly stated, go prove it to yourselves in your own systems if that's interesting to you. If it's not interesting, then don't waste your time. I didn't start the post nor keep contributing my findings to convince others to go blindly buy stuff or to make claims I've proven something--instead I'm reaching out to share what I believe I'm hearing for folks that have invested similarly in equipment and time to do the comparisons themselves in their own systems, and ask if they believe they are hearing the same things...the best we can do without all being in each others' homes and seeing if we all feel we're hearing the exact same differences at the exact same time, then rotate homes and repeat.

 

I'm not trying to suggest anyone blindly order an expensive USB cable or even a new DAC. But on the same level of respect, you don't appear to have done the comparisons yourself, so I'm not sure how you can feel comfortable making the "I don't believe it, so there's no way I would get enjoyment out of it" (paraphrasing) statement and hope that justifies your opinion to others that formed their own opinions about the specific topic by actually doing some of the experimenting. Maybe it makes you feel better about your own decisions (in this case the decision to NOT do the experiment, it appears), and if so, that's fair. Again, please continue to make your own decisions and form your own opinions, no one here is asking you to do anything different there.

 

If swapping out DACs is a "tweak" to you, well again, with due respect, you may be in the wrong forum if you're hoping to get valuable information to help you make decisions from anyone here. I hope you would agree that different DACs can have hugely dramatic changes to what comes out of your speakers and reaches your ears, and I think considering that just a "tweak" seems quite a stretch statement for me, especially in the context of the rest of the point you appear to be trying to make about what most would agree are much more subtle changes (if any change at all).

 

And I agree with you, PLEASE don't form an opinion from a magazine or online review of a product. It's painfully hard in many cases (especially depending on where you live), but put the device in your system and make an informed decision on your own if possible by hearing it for yourself. If you don't want to consider what other consumers think of the decisions they've already made (with all the subjectivity and psycho-analysis that comes with it), perfect...don't use that information either.

 

Having said all that, I can't explain why any USB cable of any "quality" or cost should make any difference...I agree it shouldn't. I don't claim to be hearing "jitter" (although to your point, that's a fair comment on your part because there's a limit to what the cable is doing in theory, I agree). And I can't scientifically measure it any better than I did with my trusty little RadioShack sound level meter and some subjective "yikes, that makes me want to turn it down a few dbs" feeling that come over me when something screeches that didn't screech and make my ears hurt at that same volume level with a different piece of equipment in the mix instead. Did my brain trick itself into thinking that my ears didn't like the sound because it KNEW it was the cheaper cable? Perhaps. But again, by itself that doesn't explain why I buy some things I demo and send other things packing, even when some cost more and some cost less, I like the looks more but not the sound, etc. It's a finicky hobby, we all agree.

 

And askat1988, I suspect you meant "compressed" files rather than "lossless," yeah? I think all of the formats you tested were in fact lossless (two being WAV in fact) although FLAC is compressed. I have done some similar tests with buddies and we couldn't hear differences in compressed files (when all were lossless) either. I have not done it recently, however, so if I have some time, perhaps I'll repeat the exercise above with compressed vs. uncompressed files and see if I have any "yikes" moments.

 

[Arnoldhasmail]

Are you using AIFF or WAVE or some Lossless format? Do you find some USB ports sound better than others?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[Arnoldhasmail]

"Mac Mini- Tried and tested.

 

This will get you Better Sound then a $20000 Cdp, this is what you do.

 

Purchase an Ayre QB-9

Purchase a Mac Mini with 4 gb Ram (dual intel proccessor)

Remove the original HD and install a FAST Solid State Drive (not a cheaper slow one, only needs to be 64gig and yes you will have to reinstall your OS)

Purchase a FireWire 800 Drive for your music. (make sure you use the 9pin to 9pin 800cable)

Use a good USB Cable ( yes I know it shouldn't matter - But is does.. I'm using an alethias)

Mac sure your midi setting is set exactly the same as the source music (44.100 for usual cd)

 

The Mac Mini will use the SSD drive for the OS only, the firewire will be used only for your music and the USB will only be for your QB-9. This way your OS isn't fighting with your music data and your Firewire data isn't interfering with the USB.

 

Turn your wireless off and run straight ethernet.

 

I've tried every different scenereo.. This is the best way - guaranteed.."

 

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

Are you using AIFF or WAVE or some Lossless format? Do you find some USB ports sound better than others?

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[vanderdm]

I wouldn't even consider using a lossy format (and HD's are so cheap.. why would you ) I use AIFF and WAV only.. The usb ports made no difference to me ...

 

[Arnoldhasmail]

do you hear a difference between aiff and wav?

 

Thanks for your help...I'm assembling a similar system right now...

 

 

 

[jay]

Yeah, I figure the compression is not buying me any benefits given how much hard drive space I have...I'm using AIFF as well.

 

And vanderdm, my SSD is a OCZ Vertex Series II 120gb. I did notice speed improvement in start up, opening of apps, etc., and I'm not sure I got NO audible benefit, as I just can't really prove it to myself because I also introduced a new power conditioner, new speaker cables and a new set of interconnects over the same 2 day period. After burn-in, my system sounds better than it's ever sounded, but it's not clear to me how much I can attribute to the individual changes.

 

My critical buddy came over and agreed that he had no idea my speakers could ever sound half as good as they do with my current set-up...even above the addition of just the Moon i-7 and Ayre QB-9. So he's hearing a marked improvement somewhere between the SSD, Audience cables, Audience power conditioning, and/or Firewire Drive. Personally, having pulled the speaker cables out, the biggest benefit in my mind sits between the Audience speaker cables and the Audience interconnects.

 

We did not have time to repeat the USB and Firewire experiments, but I'm sure we will sometime soon and I'll report back if he can't hear the differences "blindly" for those individual changes as I did.

 

[askat1988]

It's fun to read your updates, Jay, thanks for taking the time.

 

You are correct, I did mean compressed. While my friend may not have heard a difference between .wav and the cd unit, I am pretty sure I do, but I have not done any "blind" testing, just sighted. I am happy with streaming music at this point. The duet remote is just great.

 

I moved to flac so I could fit my music on the available 2.5" external drives and for proper tagging. And also for silence reasons. My Lenovo Q100 with the external laptop drive it totally silent. I may try putting a larger drive inside, but I wonder if the internal environment would have any effect. The 1s & 0s guys would say no, but who knows. While I did tag my .wav files, not all programs read them correctly.

 

Jay, i bet you are right that the interconnects made the biggest difference. I tried to move away from my Synergisitc Apex IC to something cheaper and mind tricks or not, the SRs just sound right to me.

 

Can't wait to hear about the USB/Firewire test. I hope your friend doesn't hear anything, if you know what I mean. (:

 

[bmckenney]

Jay, that is a lot of changes that you introduced. Pretty difficult to gauge what each one does, but the overall improvement must be great. I would have thought a good AC conditioner would have provided the biggest benefit by far. Is your amp in it? And do you already have dedicated circuits?

 

And what USB and Firewall comparison are you going to do? Its a big thread now and I can't find the details. Other than I know you have the Ayre USB DAC.

 

Bryan

 

[jay]

I did introduce quite a lot of changes, much to my wallet's detriment but it's paying off for sure.

 

The power conditioning did seem to help, but mind you I moved from about a 5-year old MIT Z-ISO Strip (which was about $800 back then?) to the Audience Adept Response AR6-T which is about a $4500 unit new, and to be honest, while I don't believe I have a dedicated circuit to this room, it's close. It's the one thing the guy that built my house didn't mess around with. So truthfully, the power is pretty clean at this point but may have been so before. I also don't have a tv or anything too power heavy (or noise-causing) in the room besides one lamp, then the gear (which at this point is the power conditioner, then the integrated amp, the mac mini, and the Ayre dac, plus the firewire drive). So is the Adept Response overkill? Not sure, but I'm not taking it out now. Everything but the Firewire drive is connected through the Adept Response, including the amp, yes.

 

I bought a Locus Axis usb cable which probably is just reaching full burn-in after a month, and I can hear a difference from the cheap one I'm using on certain songs at higher-than-normal-for-me listening levels--in the 85db range. Female voices on 44.1 recordings sound more etchy and guitar and snare drums don't sound right with the cheaper cable. At lower listening levels, I'm not sure it's as noticeable so it's kind of a last-ditch tweak as far as i'm concerned, and I would only make that investment after you've really invested everywhere else (especially in good analog and speaker cables) and you can hear a difference when you switch those things out. If your system sounds really good and very good cables don't make it better, I'm guessing you won't feel a good usb cable to be any benefit. Again, I'm not sure at my normal levels it makes any difference at all.

 

The firewire test I did was again at really high volume levels, and was more difficult to hear than the usb difference--I played the same song from my server vs. playing it from a local firewire 800 drive. Again, not a show-stopper as the stuff streamed from the server still sounds great even at high levels...

 

[warrensomebody]

"With all due respect to those who don't want to believe in tweaks that can't be easily objectively measured and scientifically proven in every single system out there, please DON'T believe the claims.... go prove it to yourselves...." This statement really highlights my point. When we "prove it to ourselves" we usually aren't engaged in scientific validation or objective measurements, we're making subjective judgments. I have no problem with that for the individual who's happy with where they've arrived with their system, but I'm looking for a little more concrete information to steer my upgrade decisions. I understand that sometimes you just "have to go there", i.e. purchase the gear and see for yourself, but frankly some of the claims here seem ludicrous enough that I must ask if _anyone_ can provide a rationale that might support these claims.

 

As an electrical engineer that's been in the computer industry for 25+ years, I feel that I know a fair amount about many of these topics to make a fairly accurate determination as to whether there may be "any there there." I can see that DACs can differ widely -- they employ different conversion techniques, have analog output stages, use different quality components, etc. And I have gone out and purchased different DACs and experienced those differences. But to say that USB cables make a difference -- I just can't see any reason for that. Data transfer over USB is a bi-directional protocol with error correction and retransmission. To argue that somehow the quality of the USB cable affects the bits that get delivered is analogous to saying that the ethernet cable one uses somehow affects the content of their web pages. Now perhaps you could argue that data packets that are extraordinarily delayed will be abandoned (equivalent of a web page timing out), but I would point out that this would be a function of an excessively loaded host computer or a faulty DAC, but certainly not the cable.

 

Same goes for the "different lossless formats sound different" claims. What could possibly be the reason for that? Once the bits are decoded into audio packets, they're the exact same packets, regardless of the storage format. This has been proven again and again. To claim that they are somehow different would be analogous to a situation in which a document is compressed into a zip file, but after unzipping the text of the document is somehow munged. FLAC (like zip) doesn't have this problem -- it's simply a storage format that is clever about taking less space. By the time the data arrives in the DAC's input buffer via USB (or the computer output buffer to be clocked out via S/PDIF), they're exactly the same bits. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying that S/PDIF isn't subject to problems like jitter, just that all lossless encodings (storage formats) are the same in terms of audio quality.

 

But back to my original point, I would like to see more reasoning to support claims that could lead me to better sound quality. Simply that numerous people have held their fingers (or wallets) in the wind and felt a difference isn't enough for me to do the same, especially when that decision flies in the face of logic.