Jump to content
IGNORED

Volume Control


Kilauea50
 Share

Recommended Posts

If your DAC has analog volume control, by all means use it. If it is a digital volume control I would avoid it.

 

From my understanding this is totally wrong. A good Digital control is exactly what is needed and a lot of DAC's can do this like the M1 very well and others not so well. Unless you are doing analog the preamp is essentially a relic or museum piece.

2 Channel: Bricasti M21 / M28 SE /Aurender W20SE Treatments: Acoustical panels(F, S, Bass Trap & R walls) Misc.: SR Orange Fuses

Speakers: Martin Logan CLX ART (Dark Cherry) w/30# weights / 2-ML 212's Subs tuned w/PBK and Special Phase technique

Grounding: QKore 1&6 / Networking: Sotm switch and Pwr Supply / AQ Diamond Power: Furutech GTX-DNCF / Oyaide inwall  wire

Nordost: QV2's, QK1's, 2-QX4, QPoint's,TC Kones, Sort Fut & LIft / Full O2 Loom / QSource & Points 

Misc.: iPad 3 /Lovan Rack Media Rm: ML: 13A's, Descent i's, Vanquish, Focus / Parasound: 3-A23 / Mark Levinson 433 / 77" LG 4k OLED / Anthem AVM60 / Pioneer Elite DVD Nordost: Odin/V2/T2/H2, BC Kones, H2 Network, V2 HDMI

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless you are doing analog the preamp is essentially a relic or museum piece.

 

Or you need to switch among a bunch of sources, or you need HT bypass, etc. Personally, I wish more DAC manufacturers would do what NuPrime does and make versions of their DACs with and without preamps/head amps.

 

--David

Listening Room: Mac mini (Roon Core) > iMac (HQP) > exaSound PlayPoint (as NAA) > exaSound e32 > W4S STP-SE > Benchmark AHB2 > Wilson Sophia Series 2 (Details)

Office: Mac Pro >  AudioQuest DragonFly Red > JBL LSR305

Mobile: iPhone 6S > AudioQuest DragonFly Black > JH Audio JH5

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends on if you like the sound of the dac or if you want to color it one way or another.

 

One thing that can be said is that not all dac volume controls are created equal. but if your dac is up to it with good implementation and an output stage that is adequate to drive the power amp, then it should work well.

 

Depending on your application, something very simple can work, like a passive volume control.

https://emotiva.com/products/electronics/control-freak

I use this with my powered monitors to great effect even tho my Codex has a digital volume control. I use this so that I can mute the speakers during headphones listening (both outputs are active when headphones are plugged in.) It is dandy as a desktop volume control, works great!

Roon ->allo Sparky-USBridge w/ SBooster 5V LPS-> Kii Control -> Kii Three

Roon->BMC UltraDAC->Mr Speakers Aeon Flow Open

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

What is this thing in the mRendu DAC Diagnosis app, Set DAC to Max Volume? Reading in the manual it seems very unclear.

 

See, the reason I'm asking is because several people I know have almost the exact same setup as I do, i.e. SonicOrbiter -> mReundu -> Roon - > DAVE - > Focal Utopia, and on their DAVEs their regular volume listening levels range between -40db to -20db, while mine is from about -16db to 0db. So, it's the same basic chain for bit-perfect audio. We all have our volume in Roon set to "Fixed."

 

This leads me only one avenue left to explore. Is there something in my mRendu that is a little off. Even the Set DAC to Max Volume feature doesn't appear to an off selection, as if you select it once and your stuck with it.

 

So, basically is there a chance I'm not getting the max volume out of the mRendu without signal degradation?

 

Just in case you might think I'm going deaf, both my soon-to-be-ex-wife and my 13-year old son find my listening volume to be appealing to them, as well. Nobody feels they are getting their heads torn off. Moreover, my hearing has been professionally tested by an ENT specialist, and I can easily hear 30Hz to 16kHz. I've put an SPL meter on the signal coming out of my Focal Utopias and the max reading I'm getting out of it is about 85db (rounded up) at 0db on the DAVE, which I rarely get to those volumes.

 

So...help? :)

SonicTransporter i5 -> Linn KDS/3 -> M3a-800S -> EgglestonWorks Andra II

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is this thing in the mRendu DAC Diagnosis app, Set DAC to Max Volume? Reading in the manual it seems very unclear.

 

See, the reason I'm asking is because several people I know have almost the exact same setup as I do, i.e. SonicOrbiter -> mReundu -> Roon - > DAVE - > Focal Utopia, and on their DAVEs their regular volume listening levels range between -40db to -20db, while mine is from about -16db to 0db. So, it's the same basic chain for bit-perfect audio. We all have our volume in Roon set to "Fixed."

 

This leads me only one avenue left to explore. Is there something in my mRendu that is a little off. Even the Set DAC to Max Volume feature doesn't appear to an off selection, as if you select it once and your stuck with it.

 

So, basically is there a chance I'm not getting the max volume out of the mRendu without signal degradation?

 

Just in case you might think I'm going deaf, both my soon-to-be-ex-wife and my 13-year old son find my listening volume to be appealing to them, as well. Nobody feels they are getting their heads torn off. Moreover, my hearing has been professionally tested by an ENT specialist, and I can easily hear 30Hz to 16kHz. I've put an SPL meter on the signal coming out of my Focal Utopias and the max reading I'm getting out of it is about 85db (rounded up) at 0db on the DAVE, which I rarely get to those volumes.

 

So...help? :)

 

Post the information from DAC Diagnistics so I can take a look.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Post the information from DAC Diagnistics so I can take a look.

Thank you, doc. Here we go:

 

12-28-2016 1-45-38 PM.jpg

 

DAC description: Dave 245f:0815

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Chord Electronics Ltd Dave at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 63

Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x5.8334)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 5 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000

Data packet interval: 125 usaccess: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 44100 (44100/1)

period_size: 2205

buffer_size: 4410Simple mixer control 'Dave',0

Capabilities: pvolume pswitch

Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right

Limits: Playback 0 - 32767

Mono:

Front Left: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

Front Right: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

Simple mixer control 'Dave',1

Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined

Playback channels: Mono

Limits: Playback 0 - 32767

Mono: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

 

Thanks so much for taking the time with this.

SonicTransporter i5 -> Linn KDS/3 -> M3a-800S -> EgglestonWorks Andra II

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, doc. Here we go:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]31892[/ATTACH]

 

DAC description: Dave 245f:0815

Diagnostic information for this DAC

Chord Electronics Ltd Dave at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

 

Playback:

Status: Running

Interface = 2

Altset = 1

Packet Size = 63

Momentary freq = 44100 Hz (0x5.8334)

Feedback Format = 16.16

Interface 2

Altset 1

Format: S32_LE

Channels: 2

Endpoint: 5 OUT (ASYNC)

Rates: 32000, 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000, 705600, 768000

Data packet interval: 125 usaccess: RW_INTERLEAVED

format: S32_LE

subformat: STD

channels: 2

rate: 44100 (44100/1)

period_size: 2205

buffer_size: 4410Simple mixer control 'Dave',0

Capabilities: pvolume pswitch

Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right

Limits: Playback 0 - 32767

Mono:

Front Left: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

Front Right: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

Simple mixer control 'Dave',1

Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined

Playback channels: Mono

Limits: Playback 0 - 32767

Mono: Playback 32767 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]

 

Thanks so much for taking the time with this.

 

Everything looks normal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If your DAC has analog volume control, by all means use it. If it is a digital volume control I would avoid it.

 

1. Software volume control may be calculated in float point numbers (32 and 64 bit).

It improve precision of multiplying for any kind of integer input/output resolutions.

 

1.1. Pros of software volume control:

 

a) Possibility of expanding audio signal amplitude to full scale of DAC for improving signal/noise ratio at DAC output.

 

Example:

DAC have noise floor about -120 dB.

24-bit signal have noise floor about -144 dB.

I.e. we have theoretical reserve about 20 dB for increasing of the amplitude signal in audio file with limitations from point 1.2.

 

b) Temperature stability.

 

 

 

1.2. Cons of software volume control:

 

a) Need control overload. It solved via pre-normalisation to 0 dB of maximal amplitude of signal in audio file.

 

However DAC may have different linearity for different amplitudes. As example, it may be reason of additional distortions about maximal amplitudes.

 

For this case need use maximisation to lesser levels.

 

 

 

 

1.3. Noise floor is error of calculations and/or rounding.

 

For 16 bit original signal after multiplying recommended to apply dithering. Noise floor of multiplied (in float point numbers) and original signals will have almost same values.

 

For 24 bit DAC need do nothing, because DAC noise level about -120 dB, but noise floor of multiplied signal about -144 dB.

 

 

 

 

 

2. Analog control into DAC may be used for adaptation full scaled (by digital volume control) signal to demanded volume.

 

 

All described here depend on DAC, amplifier, original audio file (content and resolution), etc.

AuI ConverteR 48x44 - HD audio converter/optimizer for DAC of high resolution files

ISO, DSF, DFF (1-bit/D64/128/256/512/1024), wav, flac, aiff, alac,  safe CD ripper to PCM/DSF,

Seamless Album Conversion, AIFF, WAV, FLAC, DSF metadata editor, Mac & Windows
Offline conversion save energy and nature

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does the volume control option within the microRendu fit in to this discussion, since mR itself isn't a DAC, how does it control the volume?

 

The microRendu hardware does not have volume control hardware builtin. The programs that implement the different "modes" may implement digital volume control. How those behave is part of the details of the particular program. I do not know the details of this for each mode. Jesus or Andrew may have some knowledge of these.

 

John S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...