Storing LPs to a PC in DSD format.

[evalon]

Hi All,

 

I'm thinking that it could be feasible to store e.g. LPs on a PC in the DSD format - more specifically in DSD256 or DSD512.

 

I would be able to build the ADC myself, however, I've not found any software that is accessible price-wise that will record & edit DSD256 or DSD512 (merging makes a DSD256 mastering DAW but beyond my reach price-wise). Any of you know if such software exists?

 

Cheers - & thanks for any insights you may have ;-)

 

Jesper

[Cebolla]

Wow, if you're good enough to build your own ADC, may be you can mod something like the purpose built Tascam DA-3000 master DSD/PCM recorder to suit your needs. Currently 'only' records up to 5.6 MHz DSD (& 192 kHz PCM), but ideal for doing needle drops so long as you can get a line-out to it from the pre-amp. Perhaps later add networking capabilities to it so making it also a full blown network streamer, seeing as it already has a built-in DAC with functions to play back stored music files (normally used to play back the files that it has recorded).

[Audio_ELF]

Korg have recently released a DSD capable ADC. Maybe look at the software with that also the Tascam software. Vinyl Studio also supports DSD to some extent being recommended by PS Audio for the NuWave Phono.

[evalon]

Hi both,

 

& thanks for commenting & suggesting. However, as far as I can read from what you write - and see on their webpages - the suggestions you mention are capable of up to DSD128 and not DSD256 or - preferably - DSD512 as I am searching for ... Or may I be mistaken?

 

@Cebolla:

Wow, if you're good enough to build your own ADC, may be you can mod something like the purpose built Tascam DA-3000 master DSD/PCM recorder to suit your needs.

Thanks for the confidence but my personal guess would be that modifying such a device to work with higher sample rates may not be that simple ... I'm not a programmer yet I would guess that the software has bandwidth limitations. So although it might be possible hardware-wise I wouldn't be able to alter the software.

 

Cheers,

 

Jesper

[mansr]

Hi All,

 

I'm thinking that it could be feasible to store e.g. LPs on a PC in the DSD format - more specifically in DSD256 or DSD512.

 

I would be able to build the ADC myself, however, I've not found any software that is accessible price-wise that will record & edit DSD256 or DSD512 (merging makes a DSD256 mastering DAW but beyond my reach price-wise). Any of you know if such software exists?

 

Cheers - & thanks for any insights you may have ;-)

 

Jesper

 

Do you really need such high rates? DSD128 should be plenty to capture the frequency and dynamic range of vinyl.

[Audio_ELF]

Have you seen diy DSD/DXD ADC DAC Blog

[evalon]

Have you seen diy DSD/DXD ADC DAC Blog

 

Hi Audio_ELF ... thanks for the link ... I actually know of this blog but haven't looked at it for some time as it looked as if postings had ceased. Reading the latest post, however, apparently there should be no software that will allow for DSD256 & up recording.

 

As it is I'm quite interested in finding out about this so I have taken the liberty of also posting this question to some other forums, e.g. recording.org & diyaudio.com. In the diyaudio.com thread I got a link to this product this morning:

 

Sound Magic -Serenade Workstation

 

Looks as if it should be able to record DSD256 shortly - from the text (Recording section) I can't see though if it's necessary to use their recording module - or if it may work with other ADCs. May consider asking them about this ...

 

Cheers,

 

Jesper

[davide256]

I wouldn't waste my time doing this unless you have the equivalent of a VPI Traveller or better turntable. Cheaper turntables won't match DSD resolution

[audiventory]

Do you really need such high rates? DSD128 should be plenty to capture the frequency and dynamic range of vinyl.

 

If you want capture band more 24 kHz, for providing studio quality (noise level about -170 dB and better) I recommend use DSD256 and better.

[dtc]

Vinyl Studio will handle quad DSD files, but to do any editing beyond separating the tracks it has to convert to PCM. I am pretty sure there is no consumer level software that can make changes to DSD tracks directly. The best any pro software does is convert only the section you are editing (like a click repair) to PCM for the repair and then convert back to DSD. VS tried to do that, but could never get a smooth transition when for the repaired section.

 

That is the one thing that most people do not understand about recording to DSD - you cannot edit the files other than breaking them apart. When digitizing vinyls that means there is no possibility to do click repair or remove hiss or hum. If you have very clean vinyl and don't mind leaving the noise in, VS will do quad DSD for you. Just understand the limitations.

[audiventory]

I am pretty sure there is no consumer level software that can make changes to DSD tracks directly.

 

Hi dtc,

 

That pro software can directly edit DSD?

 

As far as I know, currently no direct editing math even.

 

However it is not problem, if processing applied correctly.

 

"Not problem" sign that at output we able get parameters close to non processed signal.

 

I.e. losses during editing (modern pro algorithms) DSD can be close to losses during editing PCM.

 

Of course, editing DSD demands significantly more computing power comparing wide used PCM due higher sample rates.

[dtc]

Hi dtc,

 

That pro software can directly edit DSD?

 

As far as I know, currently no direct editing math even.

 

However it is not problem, if processing applied correctly.

 

"Not problem" sign that at output we able get parameters close to non processed signal.

 

I.e. losses during editing (modern pro algorithms) DSD can be close to losses during editing PCM.

 

Of course, editing DSD demands significantly more computing power comparing wide used PCM due higher sample rates.

 

No software that I know of edits DSD directly. In the consumer realm, to edit a track, the whole track has to be converted to PCM. In the pro realm, there is software that only converts the portion that is being editted to PCM. If you have say 10 clicks in a 5 minute track you want to correct, if only the area of those 10 clicks is converted to PCM and back to DSD, the effect on the whole DSD steam is pretty minor. In the consumer software, the whole track needs to be converted to PCM which can be a much more major change. I just wanted to point that out to people who are not familiar with editing DSD files.

[evalon]

Hi dtc & audiventory,

 

- thanks for both your replies - very informative I would say. From my perspective it's less than optimal to have to convert the DSD data to PCM and back again to be able to edit it, but nevertheless very good to know that it is so be it pro software or consumer oriented software.

 

Besides this aspect my main challenge has been to find an ASIO that will work with the USBPAL "data-transfer-module" which I already have. I am also thinking that if the data has to be converted I may as well record in PCM - and then be able to edit the files while in the PCM domain. If I so desire I may playback the files in the DSD format ...

 

Hmmm... a bit more cumbersome than I imagined ... However, if somebody here knows of an ASIO that will do DSD256 or DSD512 for recording I'd appreciate hearing about it.

 

... Have a good weekend when you get to that point ;-)

 

Jesper

[mansr]

From my perspective it's less than optimal to have to convert the DSD data to PCM and back again to be able to edit it, but nevertheless very good to know that it is so be it pro software or consumer oriented software.

 

The maths to do editing directly in DSD would be hideously complex if all possible.