ECdesigns

[matthias]

Somewhat strange discussions on SBAF:

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/fractal-speaker-dac-specialities-masturbatory-conjecture-talk.9776/

 

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/ec-designs-multi-bit-dac.7170/

 

Matt

[matthias]

5 minutes ago, Huubster said:

Cool, they are about to hear something special. Or maybe they have the superb stuff we never heard and find the fractal combination a bit disappointing, who knows. Let them draw their own conclusions, I'm going to follow this conversation, thanks for the tip :)

 

Indeed,

@murphythecat87 seems to be here and on SBAF so can be a moderator.

 

Matt

[matthias]

ECD seem to be surrounded by enemies on SBAF.......

 

In German: "Viel Feind, viel Ehr"

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 hour ago, murphythecat87 said:

Does anyone know what ECD recommends?

 

According to this post they use MacBooks with Swinsian Player:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-768.html#post6277163

 

Matt

[matthias]

45 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

I remembered to try to listen to the U192ETL with my macbook Air 2013 and it sounded very good - even if the UPL96 was still better!

 

John uses his macbook Air and Pro to proceed to listening tests as I understood.

 

Yes, I think there might be a reason why they use MacBooks.

I am curious about the first serious listening tests with the new ARM based Macs. These seem to get USB host controllers from ASMedia which might be superior sounding than the Intel ones.

 

Matt

[matthias]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:13 PM, murphythecat87 said:

the annoying thing is even restarting the computer doesnt fix the issue. the only way to have the pc recognize the U192 is by removing the usb then reconnecting. this never happened with the Utos

 

Can loose fitting USB cable/connectors be the cause?

 

Matt

[matthias]

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

- ECD is working on improvements that will level the playing field between all sources, and should provide a "definitive" solution to all this (this is not my personal opinion...it is based on information communicated by ECD).

 

Do you have any info when they will be releasing such a solution?

Will this be before launching the PowerDAC?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

15 minutes ago, hopkins said:

No info. AFAIK it is what they are working on with the PowerDAC and am not aware of another product. 

 

I suppose then ECD means the DAPI receiver will be this solution:

 

"The USB / Toslink / Coax DAPI receiver receiver we are now working on will replace the USB-only DAPI receiver if it performs equally well.
So we plan to use one universal DAPI receiver for future projects"

 

Matt

[matthias]

6 hours ago, Vincent des Champs said:

To proof this, one should introduce an ultra high end source (like the  GrimmAudio MU1 player) comparing with the UPL solution.

 

This is a great idea 😃

The Grimm MU1 might not be the perfect candidate since it has no proper USB outputs.

Does your dealer have a Taiko Extreme as well?

 

Anyway you can do the comparisons without the FractalDAC.

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

14 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Because their products will evolve/improve, comparing the Fractal DAC may actually be more relevant? The UPL alone used with another DAC may not be so distinctive. Maybe comparing UPL+Fractal vs any high end source+DAC? 

 

IMO, the comparison should be made with the FractalDAC:

 

UPL>>FractalDAC

vs

Various "Superservers">>U192>>FractalDAC

 

The "Superservers" must have then USB output.

 

Matt

[matthias]

29 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

True, but this would would be a comparison between

 

€333 >> €635

vs

>€10.000 >> €333 >> €635

 

so even if the latter would be as good as the first, I would not change anything in my setup.

 

and with the coax-ready DAPI, maybe I could finally try (as I cannot imagine a Taiko Extreme to be cleaner than this):

 

SDTrans384 >> Power DAC

(€550 >> €???)

 

:-)

 

Yes, the UPL and the SDTrans384 are a steal but you can not do streaming with Qobuz with them.

Further it would be interesting to compare the quality of the "Superservers" with the ECDs.

But the question is if it makes sense to do these comparisons before DAPI is launched.

 

BTW: Does the SPDIF output sound the same as I2S output of SDTrans?

 

Matt

[matthias]

21 minutes ago, murphythecat87 said:

I dont think you guys realize how expensive the Powerdac will be.

the U192ETL with the fractal dac is 3 times less expensive then what the Powerdac will be.

 

Interesting, do you have any info about the price?

My guess without any info about pricing would be 5k Euro minimum.

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 hour ago, murphythecat87 said:

I dont think you guys realize how expensive the Powerdac will be.

 

To get some impression about the dimensions of the PowerDAC please see this post of @bodiebill:

 

 

[matthias]

4 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

I look forward the comparison of the U192ETL vs high end sources!

 

Since the U192 is no source you certainly mean:

 

UPL>>FractalDAC

vs

high end sources >>U192>>FractalDAC

 

Matt

[matthias]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:42 PM, hopkins said:

I received ECD's bit-perfect tester. It is a USB stick that works as a sound device (no driver needed). It works well, but so far I have only tested some apps on Windows. 

If anyone is curious to test a particular OS/software, and it is not too difficult to set up, let me know. 

 

If it is possible it would be nice to test Audirvana 3.5 on Mac platform.

 

Thank you

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

Can try Jriver (and Audirvana on Mac) if I can use a trial version. 

 

Audirvana offers one month free trial.

Thanks again

 

Matt

[matthias]

10 minutes ago, numlog said:

I would be interested in seeing an XXHighend test if you get the chance... I seen a post by someone who was so struck by the difference it made that they claimed it had to be using some sort of DSP enhancement.

 

Does not XXHE upsample all to the highest possible sample rate of their Phasure DAC which then plays in NOS mode?

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

I just tried Audirvana on Windows 10, and the test fails, using WASAPI or ASIO. WASAPI is bit-perfect in Foobar2000... 

I made sure I deactivated all DSP and bit manipulation in the settings.

 

P.S. I asked ECD to try it and confirm my results with Audirvana/Windows. This would be a little surprising for a software marketed for Audiophiles :)

 

I have no experience with Audirvana for Windows but on Mac there are several settings where you can lose bit-perfect playback. The designer of Audirvana claims bit-perfect with the right settings.

 

Anyway, yesterday I compared with my son "upsampling deactivated" vs "upsampling to DSD256" and it was about 50:50.......

 

Matt

[matthias]

5 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I deactivated all signal processing in the settings (there are not that many) and left the volume control at 100% (no software volume control). Will try tomorrow on a Mac.

 

Also no volume levelling(ReplayGain)?

 

Looking forward to your test with Mac. Which software passed the test and is bit-perfect?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

18 minutes ago, Norton said:

Yes, XXHE is a great player but its whole raisin d’etre  is to apply DSP, upsampling to a high PCM rate feeding a NOS DAC, so no point in applying this bit perfect test.

Incidentally, I did use XXHE to send RBCD as 24/96 to the UPL/Fractal and it certainly sounded good, although I couldn’t see a Kernel Streaming option which may mean that the UPL is not a good match.

 

Agree, so far I heard only good impressions about the SQ of XXHE.

As you mentioned they perform all operations in SW so the DAC does only the conversion to analog, afaik it does not even have an analog filter.

XXHE and HQPlayer are examples that SW can sound very good even when not in bit-perfect mode.

 

Matt

[matthias]

11 hours ago, realDHT said:

I think you can guess what will be put into the left and right shielded areas 😃

 

 

 

Congrats, great work 😃

I see only one problem. I am not sure whether the next generation of ECD with DAPI has the same dimensions. 😀

 

Matt

[matthias]

7 hours ago, hopkins said:

I don't see other audio engineers going as deep as they have  in understanding the "core" problems of digital audio reproduction, and coming up with novel ways of handling them. So I am putting my trust in them, but of course still open to seeing other  approaches. 

 

Agree,

I must say the only one specification of the PowerDAC I am a little bit worried about is the high output impedance of 1.7 Ohms. Certainly it is perfect for a headphone amp but for a power amp output would a much lower impedance be desirable.

What I can imagine is that it will sound ultra transparent and clean but maybe offer less slam and drive.

I really hope that my concern will be unfounded.

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, Ben75 said:

Why not asking to ECD directly and report back here? It would be nice to know. :-)

 

I asked them on their thread at diyaudio. I will post the answer here.

 

Matt

[matthias]

28 minutes ago, hykbooks said:

can i ask why is it that low 

 

ECD seem to dislike active amplification, so I think it might be the direct output from the DAC without output buffer.

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

John answered your question: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-777.html#post6446026

The detailed explanations are too technical for me, but what I understand is that they will offer configurations that should work with a variety of speakers. 

 

Thanks for posting, I looked this morning and it was not yet out.

 

Same for me, in the end the proof is in the listening. 2021 seems to be a good year for music lovers with some interesting new gear.

 

BTW, may I ask what is your current system besides the ECDs?

 

Thanks

 

Matt