ECdesigns

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Correct. Based on the disappointing result with streaming to the GentooPlayer PC with U192ETL and the Terminator (E) compared to wtfplay with the same (G), I did define an option H (see pic) but have not tried it yet. I will try it when I have the time.

 

Of course I am not discarding streaming based on just this one setup with GentooPlayer, but I admit I am less motivated to further explore streaming based on my initial impressions.

 

I find it interesting that the HX500 does a much better job with streaming (C). I do not have an immediate explanation for this other than that the HX500 has a much lower footprint than any (oversized) PC.

 

I think it is interesting how precise the U192ETL shows differences upstream to it.

Surprising that the Fractal DAC seems to be able to outperform the Terminator.

 

Matt

[matthias]

13 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

when ECD will launch their PowerDAC it should be interested to compare the Terminator through DSD files and their PowerDAC through Flac 24bits and 96kHz.

 

As I understand the PowerDAC operates completely in the digital domain. So a direct comparison of DACs is not possible, you would have to compare two completely different set-ups.

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

How is that possible for a Digital-to-Analogue converter?

 

According to his (ECD) latest post on diyaudio it will be an DAC-Amp without analog preamp or poweramp circuits quasi a switch-amp.

I suppose there will be some sort of DAC circuit directly before the output to the speakers.

 

Matt

[matthias]

Hi Guys,

 

AFAIK, there are so far no listening impressions with ECD in a set-up with streaming from Qobuz?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

11 minutes ago, Huubster said:

 

Yes there are, but please safe your money and get yourself Spotify.. Qobuz might be 'high res', but it is compressed (flat, less spacial cues, small soundstage) when it gets in your livingroom. Spotify is way better. If not, there is work to do in your system..

 

edit: Qobuz is not harsh

 

OK, I have Qobuz Studio free trial, will try Spotify as well.

 

Any listening impressions from others?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I think John's comments may have been speculative, at a time when he was trying to figure out differences between the UPL and U192, and check for "bit-perfectness" in various operating systems and applications.

However, I did read about Qobuz applying dsp to upsample, but only when using Qobuz's app. 

Streaming services rely on files that are provided to them by distributors. 

 

Agree,

experiences with an UHQ server show that streaming from Qobuz does sound inferior to stored music in this server but superior to music stored in a NAS.

 

Matt

[matthias]

A just released answer of ECD on diyaudio about the PowerDAC:

 

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-769.html#post6293442

 

Very interesting 😃

 

Matt

[matthias]

Do ECD have a showroom in the NL where it is possible to listen to their complete range of products?

They do not seem be far from the border to Germany.

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

20 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I know they occasionally did listening sessions for an audio club in the Limburg area, but the last one was already sometime ago. You could ask John whether he is willing to arrange something by appointment. I (maybe others?) would be interested to join... (I am in Amsterdam, 3.5 hrs by train and bus, 2 hrs by car 😐 from Beringe.)

 

I would wait until the PowerDAC is "ready".

 

Matt

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/titskq7vJLUoHx4A6

Work in progress...

 

NICE 🙂

And this beast does only deliver 6W per channel?

 

Matt

[matthias]

1 minute ago, tapatrick said:

yes very nice project (I'm sure you probably know this  ) with high efficiency speakers 6W is a lot, my mono amps are 2W and easily enough.

 

You must know I listen very loud, sometimes my 80W amp gets warm with my 99dB speakers 😀

 

Matt

[matthias]

23 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I can't tell what your equipment is - any chance you can list for understanding of your listening preferences and as a benchmark? 

 

Qobuz / Audirvana / MBP, High Sierra -> Khadas Tone Board -> Exposure 21 modified -> Exposure 4DR modified -> JBL 3677

ICs: Linn Silver

Speaker cable: Exposure

Mains distribution with separate spur (5AWG) and DIY mains distribution block hard wired without connectors

No HP listening, speakers only

No local files

Listen mostly to Jazz of all kind

 

Matt

[matthias]

48 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Wifi can be really bad, isn't it?

 

Not my experience.

I get Qobuz via WiFi to my MBP. For serious listening I turn WiFi off after loading the files into RAM.

 

Matt

[matthias]

26 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Wifi channels are typically around 2.4Ghz, so that's above the 20Mhz threshold of the U192. Moreover, the Fractal DAC uses an even lower bandwidth.

 

Meanwhile I am not sure if filtering and reducing the bandwidth is the way to go.

But this thread is maybe not the right place to discuss this.

 

Matt

[matthias]

9 minutes ago, hopkins said:

What are you referring to? 

 

I found this an interesting read (though the pictures are missing) starting from Overall Design Focus (scroll down):

 

https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-technology.php

 

Matt

[matthias]

39 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Difficult to understand exactly what they are referring to. I am not an expert, far from it, but it is easy to understand that if the music data only occupies 20Mhz bandwidth then blocking anything above that is certainly not going to "take life out of the music".  Perhaps they are referring to power supplies? No idea....

 

As I understand to reproduce a digital signal correctly even when it is bandwidth limited is is mandatory to have near infinite bandwidth to get no "rounding" of the waveform. 

Basically filtering is bad because it is deforming the digital signal. Owners of the Taiko found that with reducing the bandwidth the SQ was also reduced. But I am no expert either. 

 

Matt

 

[matthias]

ECD just confirmed on diyaudio that PowerDAC introduction is planned for late 2021.

 

Matt

 

 

[matthias]

25 minutes ago, McNulty said:

I don’t think I will wait this long for the headphone version of the PowerDAC. So for me, it’s gonna be either U192ETL and Fractal DAC or another stand alone DAC to add to my existing headphone amp. The main things holding me back from purchasing the ECD products are the box count and the expected poor resale value.

 

I understand your POV.

I thought they would launch it late this year. The expected poor resale value may be caused by the permanent improvements.

The PowerDAC seems to work only with the Fractal principle, so at least in this point seems to be some continuity.

However,  I think it is very interesting what they do and I am very curious about this PowerDAC project.

 

Matt

[matthias]

35 minutes ago, hopkins said:

As explained previously, I do not see the PowerDAC affecting the resale value, in itself, of the current U192 + Fractal. The only thing that could is if they come out with another similar set of improved products. 

 

Agree,

the PowerDAC is in a completely different category and I expect the price range to be accordingly.

 

Matt

[matthias]

20 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I put the U192 in parenthesis, because I have the feeling that getting the best out of the U192 is tricky - and there may be some quasi-random variability in its performance in different systems, which of course is not an issue with the UPL as it is a "self contained" and autonomous system that probably performs just as well in any context. But that is more a "hunch" now. I look forward to checking ECD's new bit-perfect tool and see if that provides some explanations. 

 

What I find remarkable is that ECD seem to use the U192 with simple MacBooks and get good results at least so good that they can easily demonstrate the superiority of the PowerDAC in comparison to the common Fractal DAC.

As good as the UPL might be I see no value in it when getting all music from streaming services.

The question is why is getting the best out of the U192 so tricky, it should not be the case with a supposed source independence.

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, Michael L said:

 

I worry that the current line up will be the UPL16 + MOS16 + UTOS of next year. I would like to see upgrade options.

 

That can happen. Maybe the way out is a DAC with modules, like a U192 module or a UPL module.

But in the end when they have developed something better they will launch it even if it does not fit to their former products.

 

Matt

 

[matthias]

26 minutes ago, Norton said:

I’m also clear that the current offering is a significant step up from the MOS/UPL 16, but to my ears they sound quite different, so I wouldn’t want to recommend purchase without listening.

 

Please can you comment further on:

 

1.) The mentioned different sound signatures

and

2.) How to do listening to the products before purchase

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Okay. It's not so easy to do this by text, but have you also tried reading what the voltage is, from powered up suspect PC USB? (taken very carefully from the exposed red/black wires)  

 

Also, you can check if there is a higher voltage during booting the PC.

 

Matt

[matthias]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

The Khadas DAC is interesting - it has a very seductive presentation, with no obvious faults other than some lack of transparency. 

 

Please consider that the ECD combo is ten times as much as the Khadas. 🙂

 

Matt

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Yes, i realize that. My comment was to be taken as a compliment

 

For serious listening I do warm up the Khadas with a 5V powerbank before connecting the MBP.

I think it has a sweet spot for playback of saxophones which I love.

Sorry for being OT. 🙂

 

Matt