toslink cable does not like 192kHz?

[Melvin]

I said that "every piece of optical digital equipment I have ever seen that uses Toslink as the interconnect states clearly in it's specifications that the unit only does to 24/96 via the optical link."

 

I didn't mean to infer that it wasn't possible for plastic optical to go higher, just that in my experience, it doesn't.

 

Yes, you did say that now didn't you. Somehow I just read it differently. Pardon.

[livelistenlearn]

I am using the same Lifatec TOSLINK / MINIPLUG Premium Silflex Glass Cables with Optisilk™ Jacketing . I am using it between my Astell&Kern AK120 DAP and a Devialet D250. It worked only up to 96/24 but then Devialet replaced the Toslink input receiver and it now works perfect up to 192/24.

 

Melvin + monteverdi,

thanks.

 

feel better somewhat, somehow. been enjoying 24/192 optical from my set-up since Jan this year.

what gets me about this one is:

 

1. the Lifatec cable in hand does “work” with mac + dac… up to 176.4kHz (according to Audi+)
   
2. also works between CD player + another dac.
   

stumper = 15.6kHz too far (192 - 176.4kHz)?

[livelistenlearn]

I don't have one of these cables, but from reading lifatec's website I get the impression they are very interested in producing the highest quality cable they can. Everything they talk about on their webpage is good solid engineering.

 

My guess is they would be VERY interested in finding out why you are having a problem, if the cable is defective I get the impression they would replace it for you, (If I were them I would want the non-working one back to run through tests to find out what happened).

 

I would definitely send them an email explaining what is going on and see if they have any ideas that might help.

 

I'll bet that if you gave them a call they would have the VP of engineering on the phone with you trying to see what was going on.

 

Reading this company's website just resonates well with me, I get the impression these are people that are passionate about perfection and will do pretty much anything to make you happy with their product.

 

John S.

 

yes, spot on.

bought from lifatec after some r+r+r = referral, reading + research.

for the record, dealing with lifatec, as a company, has been smooth. good price + fast delivery + sexy item as pictured.

issue = functionality of product. it does “work”... but with caveats as above. having a nicely built/finished toslink that does up to 176.4kHz but not 192kHz is kind of weird.

will take Alex's and your advice = will follow up with them soon.

cheers.

[livelistenlearn]

Hey there! Am quite sure toslink only guaranteed to work up to 96khz so if you get more, is a bonus. Nature of the beast :-)

 

...think “beast" has been "genetically modified".

hardware-wise = please look up posts 17, 18, 19.

24/192 via optical does work today. sounds sweet too.

cheers.

[livelistenlearn]

Every piece of optical digital equipment I have ever seen that uses Toslink as the interconnect states clearly in it's specifications that the unit only does to 24/96 via the optical link. Toslink does not have the bandwidth for higher sampling rates.

 

no harm intended.

but Melvin is right, re:

optical can now do 24/192. both native and up-sampled… via Audi+ and HQP.

have been doing/enjoying this since Jan this year.

cheers.

[gmgraves]

no harm intended.

but Melvin is right, re:

optical can now do 24/192. both native and up-sampled… via Audi+ and HQP.

have been doing/enjoying this since Jan this year.

cheers.

 

Well, of course it can. Optical has incredible bandwidth. That's why fiber optics is replacing copper for most high-traffic communications applications. That it generally doesn't do higher than 24/96 in audio applications has to do with the optical transducers at each end of the fiber optic cable. I suspect that the higher data rate transducers cost a lot more than the ones rated for only 24/96, but I don't know that for sure and so the bandwidth of the Toslink is a design choice, not an actual technical limitation.

[gmgraves]

Yes, you did say that now didn't you. Somehow I just read it differently. Pardon.

 

 

Not a problem.

[orgel]

optical can now do 24/192. both native and up-sampled… via Audi+ and HQP.

 

I'm glad I read this thread; otherwise I would never have known that 24/192 over TOSlink was feasible now.

 

I found this page on the Apple website that appears to say that "iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014) and later" can do this. Can anyone confirm from direct experience?

 

(And thanks to CA for being a valuable resource.)

 

--David

[gmgraves]

I'm glad I read this thread; otherwise I would never have known that 24/192 over TOSlink was feasible now.

 

I found this page on the Apple website that appears to say that "iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2014) and later" can do this. Can anyone confirm from direct experience?

 

(And thanks to CA for being a valuable resource.)

 

--David

 

 

If the later Macs can do this, keep in mind that the receiving device on the other end (I.E. the DAC) has to be capable of 24/192 over optical as well.

[orgel]

If the later Macs can do this, keep in mind that the receiving device on the other end (I.E. the DAC) has to be capable of 24/192 over optical as well.

 

Good point. I had to check, but the hype sheet for my Mytek says that the TOSlink input is good for "up to 192k single wire," so that seems promising.

 

--David

[gmgraves]

Good point. I had to check, but the hype sheet for my Mytek says that the TOSlink input is good for "up to 192k single wire," so that seems promising.

 

--David

 

 

Yes, it does. But the phrase "single wire" is somewhat cryptic. Does that mean "single-ended" as opposed to "balanced"? But would being balanced or perhaps differential have any affect on an optical signal? Curious. I know, for instance, that differential DACs result in a slight increase in signal-to-noise ratio; is this what they mean? But how would this affect supported sampling rate over Toslink? Perhaps someone here can answer this for me.

[Audio_ELF]

Good point. I had to check, but the hype sheet for my Mytek says that the TOSlink input is good for "up to 192k single wire," so that seems promising.

 

Yes, it does. But the phrase "single wire" is somewhat cryptic. Does that mean "single-ended" as opposed to "balanced"? But would being balanced or perhaps differential have any affect on an optical signal? Curious. I know, for instance, that differential DACs result in a slight increase in signal-to-noise ratio; is this what they mean? But how would this affect supported sampling rate over Toslink? Perhaps someone here can answer this for me.

I suspect that they mean single wire (both channels over one cable) as opposed to dual-wire where one channel is run over each of a pair of cable effectively meaning that for 192k samples per second, you are only requiring 96khz - this was used on many pro-audio devices as well as DACs such as dCS and Chord in the past.

[monteverdi]

I think in most cases it is the Toslink input receiver which limits the bit rate. Up to recently most macs were limited to 96/24 so most users did not complain to DAC producers that Toslink is limited! In my case Devialet selected some old stock to find a input receiver which works at 192.

[gmgraves]

I suspect that they mean single wire (both channels over one cable) as opposed to dual-wire where one channel is run over each of a pair of cable effectively meaning that for 192k samples per second, you are only requiring 96khz - this was used on many pro-audio devices as well as DACs such as dCS and Chord in the past.

 

 

Good call, Eloise. I hadn't considered that!

[Chopsrr]

Hmm... Never had a problem playing 192kHz files through my Wireworld Nova Toslink.

[gmgraves]

Hmm... Never had a problem playing 192kHz files through my Wireworld Nova Toslink.

 

 

Are you sure it hasn't been down sampled to 24/96? I have a Chinese 'Name-On-Request' DAC that purports to do 24/192 over Coax, but 24/192 files play perfectly over Toslink - except that it's been down-converted to 24/96. Lots of DACs do that. I can play 24/192 material over my DragonFly via USB and it plays perfectly, but AudioQuest says that the DAC down-converts the higher sample-rate material. IOW, the DragonFly "supports" 24/192, it just doesn't really "play" it.

[Audio_ELF]

Hmm... Never had a problem playing 192kHz files through my Wireworld Nova Toslink.

The big issue is that 192 is not consistent over TOSLink. With computer a, cable b and DAC c it works, replace cable b with cable d and it doesn't.

 

The tolerances are just so slim with TOSLink that combinations can be almost random.

[Melvin]

The big issue is that 192 is not consistent over TOSLink. With computer a, cable b and DAC c it works, replace cable b with cable d and it doesn't.

 

The tolerances are just so slim with TOSLink that combinations can be almost random.

 

Yet, I've never had a problem with 192 over optical regardless of cable, including cheap plastic fiber with 2 different Macs, 2 DACs, and 1 converter. Go figure ..

[ilkinandr92]

I was actually going to buy Lifatac Toslink but not too sure now as i see it doesnt support 192khz, have you called the company and ask them about it? I have AudioQuest Cinnamon Toslink connecting my PC with Pioneer Elite SC-81 and the displays shows fs: 192kHz.

[Melvin]

I was actually going to buy Lifatac Toslink but not too sure now as i see it doesnt support 192khz, have you called the company and ask them about it? I have AudioQuest Cinnamon Toslink connecting my PC with Pioneer Elite SC-81 and the displays shows fs: 192kHz.

 

Seriously, did you actually read the whole thread? For example, I have one and yes, it works quite well at 24/192.

[Miska]

Good point. I had to check, but the hype sheet for my Mytek says that the TOSlink input is good for "up to 192k single wire," so that seems promising.

 

My Mytek works up to 192k over Toslink. I've used it quite a bit to do DSD64 DoP to the Mytek.

[orgel]

My Mytek works up to 192k over Toslink. I've used it quite a bit to do DSD64 DoP to the Mytek.

 

Ah, great to know. Thanks. I'm contemplating eventually having one server go to the Mytek via TOSlink, and another server hooked up via USB, so being able to do DSD64 and 24/192 via TOSlink is good news.

 

--David

[Lifatec USA]

Thought we should chime in here!

 

Indeed, our cables are tested in-house at 24 bit, 192kHz data rates with legitimate (not up-converted) 24/192 files. We test with a Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus DAC and a Peachtree Audio X1 USB-to-Toslink converter as our source. We've tested up to 26 feet lengths on this setup (and, just for kicks, passing through a cheap, plastic, Toslink to MiniPlug adapter) and had zero issues at 24/192.

 

The variable, as many here have pointed out and subsequently hit the nail on the head with, lies with the particular components being used and their sensitivity to the higher data rates. Unfortunately, we don't have the time or resources to collect every component and test every combination at 24/192 to look for potential issues. Instead, we offer the open return policy and test the cables at 24/192 on our particular gear with consistent performance.

 

We hope this clears things up (though it really just leaves a question mark as to specifically what will work and what won't!), and we are working with user livelistenlearn to resolve his issues.

 

Cheers,

 

Lifatec USA

[Melvin]

Thought we should chime in here!

 

Indeed, our cables are tested in-house at 24 bit, 192kHz data rates with legitimate (not up-converted) 24/192 files. We test with a Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus DAC and a Peachtree Audio X1 USB-to-Toslink converter as our source. We've tested up to 26 feet lengths on this setup (and, just for kicks, passing through a cheap, plastic, Toslink to MiniPlug adapter) and had zero issues at 24/192.

 

The variable, as many here have pointed out and subsequently hit the nail on the head with, lies with the particular components being used and their sensitivity to the higher data rates. Unfortunately, we don't have the time or resources to collect every component and test every combination at 24/192 to look for potential issues. Instead, we offer the open return policy and test the cables at 24/192 on our particular gear with consistent performance.

 

We hope this clears things up (though it really just leaves a question mark as to specifically what will work and what won't!), and we are working with user livelistenlearn to resolve his issues.

 

Cheers,

 

Lifatec USA

 

Welcome to CA and thanks for the informative post. I have a couple of your cables and have been very pleased. Great quality and prices. Cheers.

[Lifatec USA]

Welcome to CA and thanks for the informative post. I have a couple of your cables and have been very pleased. Great quality and prices. Cheers.

 

Melvin,

 

We are delighted to hear that you are pleased with your cables!

 

Hopefully that post didn't serve to generate further confusion, but the fact is that "it works on our gear at 24/192" is about the best information we can provide at this point. We do occasionally get feedback from customers on what is working with their particular components and at what data rates, however I do not believe this is useful to the potential customer since we haven't witnessed it ourselves, seen the test setup, etc. I don't like to make promises or guarantees based on information that is essentially hear-say by the time it reaches said customer, so the open return policy stands.

 

To anyone with questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to visit our website and send us an e-mail.

 

Thanks,

 

Lifatec USA