Optical Network Configurations

[The Computer Audiophile]

18 minutes ago, jabbr said:

I did it because ... I could ... and already had a run of single-mode fiber from my basement to my office. Video/photo editing might see a difference. I tested various 10,25,40 and my 100Gbe NICs and honestly can't hear a difference. The 100Gbe does have infinitesimally low jitter/noise and that fact that it works, and the fact that it doesn't require any special PSU for the PCIe bus powering tells me that Mellanox (and other NIC vendors) must have engineered impressive on card power. No doubt ultra low noise linear power chips behind ultralow noise voltage converters etc. My 100Gbe switch plugs into the wall, and similarly although you can do 48V DC power, it all gets voltage converted anyways. There's no ability to externally clock this stuff and since the phase noise requirements are vanishingly low really there is no need nor way to optimize it further.

I’m just playing 3-8GB files and want them to start as soon as I press play. Faster speed = good :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, jabbr said:

My current setup

 Mellanox ConnectX-5 on my office workstation because it has enough power to supply my QSFP28 100GBASE-LR4 modules.

 Mellanox ConnectX-4 on my server (which is right next to the switch and is connected via QSFP28 fiber cable.

 Mellanox ConnectX-4 on NAS

Which NAS do you use? Your own build?

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, jabbr said:

https://www.servethehome.com/mikrotik-crs504-4xq-in-review-momentus-4x-100gbe-and-25gbe-desktop-switch-marvell/3/

 

gulp

Hey @jabbr, do you know of a card that supports 100Gbe on macOS?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, jabbr said:

Welcome to the vbox/qemu twilight zone hell...

 

https://www.atto.com/products/ethernet-adapters

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

ouch.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Can do Thunderbolt to 25Gbe, but now that 100Gbe is more normal, who wants 25 🤣

 

https://store.atto.com/thunderbolt-adapters/213-dual-40gb-thunderbolt-to-dual-1025gbe-adapter-sfp28s-included.html

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, jabbr said:

https://mikrotik.com/product/crs504_4xq_in

 

Anyone who wants to move to 100Gbe ethernet, this switch is very cost effective and fairly easy to set up. Its a bot finicky with AIO fiber cables (but I didn't spend a great deal of time trying to get working). My 100Bgase-LR4 QSFP28 (single mode) work great, also x4 SFP28 breakout cables.

 

 

I was looking at this really hard last night!

[The Computer Audiophile]

I think I would get this switch if I knew it would work well with AES67 / Ravenna. The Mikrotik forum seems to show some issues or at least unanswered questions. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

The Ravenna recommendations are here - https://www.ravenna-network.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/RAVENNA-Network-Requirements-Draft-0.3.pdf

[The Computer Audiophile]

I wonder if this list is up to date. 
 

 

PTPv2

Device support

Supported on:
CRS326-24G-2S+ supported only on Gigabit Ethernet ports
CRS328-24P-4S+ supported only on Gigabit Ethernet ports
CRS317-1G-16S+ supported on all ports
CRS326-24S+2Q+ supported on SFP+ and QSFP+ interfaces
CRS312-4C+8XG supported on all ports
CRS318-16P-2S+ supported only on Gigabit Ethernet ports

Not supported on:
CRS305-1G-4S+
CRS309-1G-8S+
CRS328-4C-20S-4S+
CRS354-48G-4S+2Q+

 

https://help.mikrotik.com/docs/display/ROS/Precision+Time+Protocol

[The Computer Audiophile]

34 minutes ago, MFJG said:

https://www.netgear.com/business/wired/switches/fully-managed/m4500/

The top of the line Netgear 4500 series can do AVB, AES67/Ravenna, and 100Gbe. 

Nice!

[The Computer Audiophile]

$15k bummer

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Get these while they are still available ... Intel 100G-CWDM4

 

100G at <3.5w -- low energy/bit! That's why the pulls are green 😝

Single mode?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, lasker98 said:

appears you haven't been reading my posts.

Please excuse me if I missed something of critical importance, but this sounds a bit entitled. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

WOW

I must have missed something ?

[The Computer Audiophile]

30 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

This probably should have been your first post. As the owner of this site I would have expected better from you.

Your post just sounded entitled as if everyone offering free advice is required to read all your posts and understand them fully, else they receive a critical reply from you.
 

Now that you’ve also told me what I should’ve done as well, it’s hard to believe my first impression was wrong. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

24 minutes ago, lasker98 said:

Please delete my account. Thanks.

Sure thing. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Iving said:

Problem: Unexplained latency spikes after exhaustive testing, and professional consultations with Dante/Focusrite/Startech. Spikes happen only PC FIBER > eR > RedNet device. Never ALL COPPER connections; e.g. PC LAN > eR > RedNet device or just PC LAN > RedNet device.

 

I need a recommendation for a switch that help further testing. Must have both SFP and RJ45 ports. Must not have attributes e.g. Green Ethernet that could account for latency problems.

 

Inexpensive! For testing only - not necessarily Hi-Fi.

 

Must work with etherRegen and Startech PEX1000SFP2 PCIe Card and SFP1000LXST Transceivers. I use these with FS LC UPC to LC UPC Duplex OS2 Single Mode PVC (OFNR) 2.0mm Fiber Optic Patch Cable.

 

Many thanks

 

I really like these switches. They work with Ravenna / AES67 audio extremely well. 

 

https://www.netgear.com/business/wired/switches/fully-managed/m4250/avline/

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, jabbr said:

This is a hobby and people will tweak what they like to tweak.

I love that simple, true, and relaxed statement. Well said. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Updating my own post …

Recap/summary:

System is local flac to RedNet D16 AES on Dante network – single hop - offline – no internet – no streaming – nothing at all but flac from PC at listening position to D16 AES via etherRegen switch.

The connection from eR B Side to RedNet Device is always copper. (Cannot be anything else both Devices.)

The connection from PC to eR can be copper or fiber. [eR has SFP + RJ45 on A Side.]

Never had problems in past with copper. Still don't now. Copper would be PC mobo LAN out.

 

Latency Spikes happen on fiber transmission PC to eR:

PC (Startech PCIe Gigabit SFP AIC PEX1000SFP2 with Startech SFP1000LXST Transceiver)

>

SM cable

>

eR SFP interface with same Startech Transceiver SFP1000LXST

I have Support ticket open with Startech – at this stage providing evidence.

Had a long TeamViewer session with Focusrite tech. on Friday 2nd Feb. Set up a fresh installation for him. He could find nothing wrong – I was doing everything right.

 

Bought some inexpensive gear for further testing ...

 

1. replaced Startech Transceivers and SM fiber cable with this AOC cable: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BW8R664Y?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details.

Result: Still spiking.

[Ancillary interest – most definitely a positive leap in SQ here – never heard my system sound like that]

Conclusion: Startech Transceivers SFP1000LXST and SM cable very probably not culprits.

 

2. with AOC cable in situ used inexpensive switch to bypass (i.e. in lieu of) etherRegen:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBSZJL3?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Result: Still spiking.

Conclusion: etherRegen very probably not a culprit.

[Ancillary interest – pleasing result because I value the eR contribution to SQ in my system]

 

3. With AOC cable in situ, and etherRegen restored to chain, swapped out Startech PCIe AIC PEX1000SFP2 for this el cheapo 10Gtek "Intel 1210AS Chip" PCIe AIC:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BBRJ3M8C?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Installed Drivers and PRO SET / Set Network Adapter Settings

Result: Rock solid just like ordinary copper behaviour for 15 hrs +

 

Conclusion: Startech PEX1000SFP2 is rogue – at least in my system.

 

I was mighty relieved to isolate the problem logically to Startech PEX1000SFP2 because it was the last possible hardware explanation. If I'd still had spiking after changing PCIe Cards, I'd have been in the weeds – e.g. resorting to latencymon - guessing DPC villains - with core affinity manipulations etc.

Or setting up my old Intel Z270-WS suspecting that this was all somehow about AMD. [RedNet PCIe didn't even work on AMD and Apple Silicon until the new PCIeNX just released ... I was tempted with RedNet PCIeNX especially given all the Dante Virtual Soundcard Activations I was eating trying to resolve spiking on fiber -  but fiber is magical to my ears whereas copper is merely good.]

Either that or RedNet baby out with bathwater entirely. But (aside from the prospect of a mountain of work) I don't know of another way to satisfy my first prerogative which is to play music manipulating a very large bespoke foobar2000 database on a PC (not a phone or tablet) at the listening position. A fiber length of just a few metres to a RedNet Device which outputs AES via a Mutec WC/Reclocker to my Pro Audio DAC can sound very, very good. The eR and the Mutec MC3+ USB are externally clocked. I have a Linn Klimax Pre - and vertically bi-amp my looked-after Snell Type A III with Linn Klimax Twins. My Bass experience is somatic just as much as aural. SQ jumps come at me as tighter vibrations through my feet - in my thighs – and massaging my back as my listening room transmits low frequencies across the suspended floor and up through the wooden infrastructure of my leather Chesterfield sofa-cum-listening chair. Nothing too Subjective in that I hope.

 

There was a SQ hit with el cheapo PCIe AIC – still - very sig. SQ enhancements obvious – but a somewhat grainy sound to me – stunningly revealing – voices and pianos more natural etc – but sort of "lo-res" – or something. Not smooth. So I need a really, really good PCIe SFP AIC. I would welcome suggestions regarding a (probably) Intel PCIe SFP AIC that could go on my shortlist. Obviously SQ is paramount.

Startech PEX1000SFP2 is the single SFP port Gigabit PCIe offering. A two port version (https://www.startech.com/en-gb/networking-io/p021gi-network-card) is Intel not Realtek. Moreover it's I350 as strongly favoured by @TomJ. So that could go on my shortlist.

Wow, I love this. Thanks for all the information and testing. I've been down this road with other items and understand the frustration. 

 

I'm not a fan of anything Realtek, unless I have to be. In fact I just installed Linux and the AES67 Ravenna driver on two little computers. Had nothing but problems on the one with a Realtek interface. The other has Intel, and it worked like a dream. 

 

Is there anything here that will work for you? - https://www.fs.com/c/intel-intel-based-ethernet-adapters-3376

[The Computer Audiophile]

30 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Posting these articles intermittently as the future of optical networking. This has **nothing** to do with home audio. Intel has previously demonstrated but looks like Broadcom has taken the lead in implementation. The metal DAC cables (direct QSFP to QSFP) and QSFP ports may go away to be replaced by optical to optical, presumably single mode fiber direct from chip to chip. I'd assume the fully optical chip could plug into a QSFP port on a remote device...

 

Broadcom Now Sampling 51.2T Co-Packaged Optics Switch (servethehome.com)

Love it @jabbr